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Democrats introduce two articles of impeachment against Trump

eman623 said:
So "abuse of power" is now impeachable? I always thought Obama signing an EO to defer action on 5 million illegals was an abuse of power.

Too bad you can't retroactively impeach a past president. OTOH, every president going forward can now be impeached multiple times under this new standard.
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Obama did not extort undocumented immigrants to announce, on CNN, fake investigations into his political opponents.

No other President has done that, and let's hope it doesn't happen again.
 
Nalu said:
It's called a subpoena. They're not optional. The Congress already has that power. This is the first president to pretend like it doesn't exist. So they're not elevating themselves. They're maintaining their constitutional obligations against a lawless executive.
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You don't know what you are talking about.

First: A Congressional subpoena is entirely optional. The Congress has no legal authority to enforce a subpoena. If the Congress refuses to seek enforcement through the court then the person who received the subpoena is under no legal obligation to appear.

Second: Executive Privilege is in fact a thing, and the President can claim executive privilege when subpoenaed. If the needs of Congress exceed the President's executive privilege then the court would decide that, not congress.

As I have said from the moment they announced these idiotic articles: The Democrats in issuing these articles have done more to exceed their authority than the supposed offense by Trump. They literally denied Trump the opportunity to defend his executive privilege in court and then are attempting to impeach him as if they had won a court case... which they haven't. They have done everything they can to ensure as little opposing argumnet can be made, and refuse allowing the impartial court to decide.
 
Nalu said:
Um, that isn't a response. The articles aren't about "every dispute" between a president and a Congress. They're pretty specific.
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They are about this dispute-- Congress wants certain documents; the president doesn't want to give them, Congress says impeach.
So yes, it is about making every dispute impeachable.
 
dixon01767 said:
As does the President have the power dispute a subpoena. Some homeless guy off the street can challenge a congressional subpoena. So to can the President.
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Mmhmm. He's been challenging them. And losing too.
 
ecofarm said:
Obama did not extort undocumented immigrants to announce, on CNN, fake investigations into his political opponents.

No other President has done that, and let's hope it doesn't happen again.
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Trump never did that either.
 
Obscurity said:
Presidents already can be impeached for not giving up documents and blanketly ordering no testimony. That's the definition of obstruction.
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totally wrong!!! they can be legitimately impeached only after courts have ruled that in a particular case the executive should turn over documents consistent with the Congresses oversight function. Impeaching without the courts approval is an unconstitutional abuse of power. Now do you understand??
 
Nalu said:
Oh, no. It's you. I've been so diligent about scrolling over your posts, yet here you are, tagging me again.

Trump is the first president who thinks he can ignore any subpoena that bugs him. Go away.
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He is about the 45th.
 
dobieg said:
Sniffle, are we a little upset our little impeachment gambit fell flat so we have to make things up?
,
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very upset after the Russian thing fell flat too
 
Nalu said:
You seem to believe that since Congress's oversight authority is not absolute that the president can decide when, how, and to what extent he's going to respond to Congress, even to the point of acting like it doesn't exist at all.
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Well, yes. The president can do that.
Its called separation of powers.
Its probably not the wisest move (and judging from the agreement made on free trade today, its fair to say Trump is not ignoring Congress).
 
Athanasius68 said:
In such a circumstance of President Biden blocking an investigation into H Biden, it would seem obvious that whatever Biden was doing is worse than what Trump is claimed to have done.
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:lamo:lamo

At least trump can cite his constitutional authority to enforce the law. Biden is just using his power to protect his kid (the 'bomb example' is absurd as that would be a criminal issue and within the purview of the Executive department).
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Oh my ****ing gawd. Have you learned nothing during this presidency? The president can't be charged with a crime while he's in office.

But in such a scenario, Congress has the power of the purse, and can withhold funding.
Or they can rewrite the law. Or hold up presidential nominees.

The precedent that the Democrats are creating now is for impeachment first-- and for a dispute over what the president wanted and not what he actually did. Thats 2 for 2 for bad precedent.
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The Democrats aren't creating a new precedent. The Republicans are trying to create a new precedent that says that Republican presidents can do anything possible and never be held accountable for anything. The Democrats are rejecting that attempted new precedent.
 
James972 said:
totally wrong!!! they can be legitimately impeached only after courts have ruled that in a particular case the executive should turn over documents consistent with the Congresses oversight function. Impeaching without the courts approval is an unconstitutional abuse of power. Now do you understand??
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They can impeach for whatever reason they want.
But they are also accountable for that decision as well. And since it is not a serious impeachment, they need to be held accountable come November.
 
jmotivator said:
The Democrats in issuing these articles have done more to exceed their authority than the supposed offense by Trump. They literally denied Trump the opportunity to defend his executive privilege in court and then are attempting to impeach him as if they had won a court case... which they haven't. They have done everything they can to ensure as little opposing argumnet can be made, and refuse allowing the impartial court to decide.
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very true, are Dims so stupid as to imagine they will get away with this??
 
Cardinal said:
Imagine a future Democratic President unbound by Congressional oversight.
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Imagine a future President being impeached because they don’t do what Congress demands.
 
James972 said:
totally wrong!!! they can be legitimately impeached only after courts have ruled that in a particular case the executive should turn over documents consistent with the Congresses oversight function. Impeaching without the courts approval is an unconstitutional abuse of power. Now do you understand??
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Wrong. Congress has the sole authority to impeach.

I guess you forgot to read the constitution.
 
dixon01767 said:
This is congress, not criminal investigators or courts. Not obstructing justice but obstructing congress. Obstruction of Justice is what they alleged in the case of Comey's FBI or Muellars Special Counsel. The Ukraine show is all congress. And the President exercising his rights isn't obstruction.
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yes, because our founders definitely wanted the future Presidents to obstruct either Justice or Congress.

God Almighty.
 
jmotivator said:
You don't know what you are talking about.

First: A Congressional subpoena is entirely optional. The Congress has no legal authority to enforce a subpoena. If the Congress refuses to seek enforcement through the court then the person who received the subpoena is under no legal obligation to appear.

Second: Executive Privilege is in fact a thing, and the President can claim executive privilege when subpoenaed. If the needs of Congress exceed the President's executive privilege then the court would decide that, not congress.

As I have said from the moment they announced these idiotic articles: The Democrats in issuing these articles have done more to exceed their authority than the supposed offense by Trump. They literally denied Trump the opportunity to defend his executive privilege in court and then are attempting to impeach him as if they had won a court case... which they haven't. They have done everything they can to ensure as little opposing argumnet can be made, and refuse allowing the impartial court to decide.
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Differences in opinion are great. Unfortunately, your grating attitude and smug swipes make you a less than ideal conversational partner. Try someone else.
 
Moon said:
Imagine a future President being impeached because they don’t do what Congress demands.
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Imagine a future president, like Bernie Sanders, hitching congressional apportioned funding to investigations into Ted Cruz, Sean Hannity, and anyone else he disagrees with.
 
Athanasius68 said:
They can impeach for whatever reason they want.
.
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well not really; if they impeach for something other than treason bribery etc it is clearly unconstitutional.
 
[
QUOTE=Nalu;1071011981]:lamo:lamo



Oh my ****ing gawd. Have you learned nothing during this presidency? The president can't be charged with a crime while he's in office.
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What crime would Biden have committed by shielding his son? None.
But it would be corrupt.


The Democrats aren't creating a new precedent. The Republicans are trying to create a new precedent that says that Republican presidents can do anything possible and never be held accountable for anything. The Democrats are rejecting that attempted new precedent.
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Now its my turn to laugh.
BTW-- yesterday also confoimed that the Obama Admin was investigating the Trump campaign.
Impeach Obama as well (impeachment conviction doesnt just remove somebody from office. It makes that person ineligible for federal office)?
 
ecofarm said:
Impeachment and removal are political solutions. They're not legal solutions. It's a political process.
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Well, until this idiocy there was always an actual legal case to be made that supported impeachment. The Democrats have decided to try an utterly baseless impeachment to appease their idiotic base, how that solves anything politically you have yet to demonstrate.

I guess a purely political, baseless impeachment is a solution for Trump in the same way suicide is a medical solution for a head cold. :roll:
 
jmotivator said:
Well, until this idiocy there was always an actual legal case to be made that supported impeachment. The Democrats have decided to try an utterly baseless impeachment to appease their idiotic base, how that solves anything politically you have yet to demonstrate.

I guess a purely political, baseless impeachment is a solution for Trump in the same way suicide is a medical solution for a head cold. :roll:
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Drama Llama.
 
Obscurity said:
Imagine a future president, like Bernie Sanders, hitching congressional apportioned funding to investigations into Ted Cruz, Sean Hannity, and anyone else he disagrees with.
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But imagine a President Sanders investigating his 2024 opponent. We just had a report describing the investigation by #44 into the Trump campaign.
None of the usual suspects seem particularly horrified that such an investigation took place.
 
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