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North Korea’s U.N. Envoy Says Denuclearization Off Table

Nalu said:
That Trump ****ing failed. Just like GWB did. Just like Clinton did. Just like Obama did. As it relates to NK, the US is less secure day by day and the bull**** that Trump fed his flock of pigeon brained loyalists has caused them to be even dumber about the NK situation than they were before he took office.
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Sorry...who has said it has been a success?? As it relates to NK, the U.S. has NEVER been "secure" this day to day BS is nonsense that you are spewing.
 
sjmay said:
Sorry...who has said it has been a success?? As it relates to NK, the U.S. has NEVER been "secure" this day to day BS is nonsense that you are spewing.
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Trump failed worse than Clinton. At least Kim ****ed Clinton behind his back. Trump took it missionary.
 
sjmay said:
Sorry...who has said it has been a success?? As it relates to NK, the U.S. has NEVER been "secure" this day to day BS is nonsense that you are spewing.
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As it relates to NK, Trump seemed to think so:

Donald Trump tweet said:
Just landed - a long trip, but everybody can now feel much safer than the day I took office. There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea. Meeting with Kim Jong Un was an interesting and very positive experience. North Korea has great potential for the future!
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sjmay said:
Again, please prove that they are "convorting" on the world stage....

**** you guys act like Trump meeting with Jong Un, gave permission for Russia and China to make deals with NK, because you are assuming they needed permission to ****ing begin with.

Let's try this,

Outside of China and Russia, what country has made a deal with NK ? Anything substanstial?
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and you repeat this stupid strawman to knock down. I am not surprised you are totally unaware of how geopolitical power is wielded, especially softpower, nor be able to recognize the benefits trump bestowed upon the global pariah Kim by treating with him as an equal.
 
Jonsa said:
and you repeat this stupid strawman to knock down. I am not surprised you are totally unaware of how geopolitical power is wielded, especially softpower, nor be able to recognize the benefits trump bestowed upon the global pariah Kim by treating with him as an equal.
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No worries, I am completely not surprised you aren't able to articulate the benefits that you think Trump bestowed upon them........because there are none.
 
Exquisitor said:
Try queensmove:

Chess Enthusiasts

Un with nukes is nothing but a hazard, physically, dimensionally and for next time.

It wouldn't take a lot for Xing to see it this way.

Also you must threaten China with consequences.
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Threatening China with consequences has its own consequences, as Dear Leader Donnie has found out.
 
sjmay said:
No worries, I am completely not surprised you aren't able to articulate the benefits that you think Trump bestowed upon them........because there are none.
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no worries, I get you have no idea of diplomacy and why its the third lever of power projection. But then again Dunning Kruger reigns in Trumpland.
 
Jonsa said:
no worries, I get you have no idea of diplomacy and why its the third lever of power projection. But then again Dunning Kruger reigns in Trumpland.
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LOL and yet, you still can't articulate the benefits.....you keep saying Jong Un got benefits, but you can't articulate what they are?

Why is that? It's not my "no idea of diplomacy and why its third lever of power projection" because that's a ME problem, not a YOU problem, YOUR problem is, you can't articulate what benefits arrived to NK from Trump in visiting them, so you need to tell others what they have no idea about....
 
SLC said:
I have never understood why China wants/allows North Korea to have nukes. They clearly are a wild card and could use the nukes on China as well as half the world. Why let NK join the big league?
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China and North Korea have a mutual defense agreement. They won’t have a problem with it so long as the United States has nuclear-capable bombers and submarines in and around South Korea. For all their bluster - North Korea is not really a wild card. It views nuclear weapons as insurance and it knows their mutual defense agreement with China would be void if they were to launch a pre-emptive strike.
 
Napoleon said:
China and North Korea have a mutual defense agreement. They won’t have a problem with it so long as the United States has nuclear-capable bombers and submarines in and around South Korea. For all their bluster - North Korea is not really a wild card. It views nuclear weapons as insurance and it knows their mutual defense agreement with China would be void if they were to launch a pre-emptive strike.
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Exactly.....issue is, is if/when they lose a nuke or two to a fringe group etc.....
 
sjmay said:
LOL and yet, you still can't articulate the benefits.....you keep saying Jong Un got benefits, but you can't articulate what they are?

Why is that? It's not my "no idea of diplomacy and why its third lever of power projection" because that's a ME problem, not a YOU problem, YOUR problem is, you can't articulate what benefits arrived to NK from Trump in visiting them, so you need to tell others what they have no idea about....
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I am not at all shocked to see that you appear to lack awareness of the facts and events surrounding NK and Trump. Have you not been paying attention.

I do understand you have no clue why official state visits are "valuable" in the diplomatic world. Perhaps you aren't aware how valuable direct access can be.

He got state visits to both Russia and China.
He got indefinite suspension of military exercises in the South.
He got massive internal propaganda bennies.

Still has his nukes, still firing missiles and somehow the regime still survives while his people starve. What a whiz.
 
sjmay said:
Sorry...who has said it has been a success?? As it relates to NK, the U.S. has NEVER been "secure" this day to day BS is nonsense that you are spewing.
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So we agree Trump failed. That's a good start for you.
 
Jonsa said:
I am not at all shocked to see that you appear to lack awareness of the facts and events surrounding NK and Trump. Have you not been paying attention.

I do understand you have no clue why official state visits are "valuable" in the diplomatic world. Perhaps you aren't aware how valuable direct access can be.

He got state visits to both Russia and China.
He got indefinite suspension of military exercises in the South.
He got massive internal propaganda bennies.

Still has his nukes, still firing missiles and somehow the regime still survives while his people starve. What a whiz.
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Ok....so you believe...that Trump visiting NK allowed state visit to Russia and China, that...Russia and China would NEVER HAVE DONE IT...if Trump didn't do it? Thats just asinine.

He got an indefinite suspension of military exercises in the South, US-South Korea Military Exercise a Go Despite North's Threats, 4-Star Says | Military.com

Or did he?

He got massive internal propaganda.....from a people that already idolized him and are in no position to do anything REGARDLESS....

That's your argument?
 
you guys that are worried about price increases due to china tariff's. IF it happens, too bad. if you don't oppose china now, you may not be able to later.
 
Jonsa said:
Threatening China with consequences has its own consequences, as Dear Leader Donnie has found out.
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Maybe we should just all go jump up and down with the Hare Krishnas.

This is Un's purpose to drive us back to Godhead and if we don't want to go, to destroy us.
 
sjmay said:
Exactly.....issue is, is if/when they lose a nuke or two to a fringe group etc.....
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Fortunately there are absolutely no fringe groups in the UK, France, Israel, India, Pakistan, Russia, China, or the USA - right?
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Fortunately there are absolutely no fringe groups in the UK, France, Israel, India, Pakistan, Russia, China, or the USA - right?
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Correct, because that's exactly what I said....
 
sjmay said:
Ok....so you believe...that Trump visiting NK allowed state visit to Russia and China, that...Russia and China would NEVER HAVE DONE IT...if Trump didn't do it? Thats just asinine.
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No, that is also not what I said. I said that trump provided them with cover. If trump did it then they could do it too. Its assinine not to understand the basics of diplomatic maneuvering.

He got an indefinite suspension of military exercises in the South, US-South Korea Military Exercise a Go Despite North's Threats, 4-Star Says | Military.com

Or did he?
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try to keep up.

Joint exercise with American and South Korean military postponed in ‘act of goodwill’ toward North Korea


He got massive internal propaganda.....from a people that already idolized him and are in no position to do anything REGARDLESS....

That's your argument?
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hahahaha.

I can't tell if your naivety is deliberate or really don't understand the basics. Kim must keep feeding the machine. He must keep pounding the bull**** into the minds of his starving impoverished population while maintaining a rule of terror over them. Constant reinforcement is a necessary component of any good propaganda campaign. In this case the campaign to ensure his "divine" bone fides.

But by all means maintain your absurd one dimensional perspective on foreign policy and the nature of the geopolitical conflict.
 
Exquisitor said:
Maybe we should just all go jump up and down with the Hare Krishnas.

This is Un's purpose to drive us back to Godhead and if we don't want to go, to destroy us.
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WTF you talkin' bout, willis?
 
Jonsa said:
No, that is also not what I said. I said that trump provided them with cover. If trump did it then they could do it too. Its assinine not to understand the basics of diplomatic maneuvering.



try to keep up.

Joint exercise with American and South Korean military postponed in ‘act of goodwill’ toward North Korea




hahahaha.

I can't tell if your naivety is deliberate or really don't understand the basics. Kim must keep feeding the machine. He must keep pounding the bull**** into the minds of his starving impoverished population while maintaining a rule of terror over them. Constant reinforcement is a necessary component of any good propaganda campaign. In this case the campaign to ensure his "divine" bone fides.

But by all means maintain your absurd one dimensional perspective on foreign policy and the nature of the geopolitical conflict.
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No, that's not what you said, and since when do Russia or China need "cover" cmon man, are you serious?

As far as the Military exercises, how many times can they be suspended...you said Kim got indefinite suspension of military exercises as a result of the meeting.....I pointed out..you were wrong....that they actually planned on doing miliary exercises....and then you point out they were suspended again.....that 2nd time...think it was the meeting a year ago as the reason, or maybe that talks were about to resume? Just asking...

Second....he's a brutal dictator...you think he runs his regime based on what his people want? And you call me the naive one.
 
sjmay said:
No, that's not what you said, and since when do Russia or China need "cover" cmon man, are you serious?

As far as the Military exercises, how many times can they behe suspended...you said Kim got indefinite suspension of military exercises as a result of the meeting.....I pointed out..you were wrong....that they actually planned on doing miliary exercises....and then you point out they were suspended again.....that 2nd time...think it was the meeting a year ago as the reason, or maybe that talks were about to resume? Just asking...

Second....he's a brutal dictator...you think he runs his regime based on what his people want? And you call me the naive one.
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I see that you are not familiar with diplomacy or how that world works. I am not going to try and educate you about how "diplomatic cover" no matter how deliberate or inadvertent is a valuable tactical advantage.

The exercises have been suspended since the first summit. Big bennie.

And who said anything about him ruling based on what his people want. Not me. Do you always have comprehension problems?
 
Jonsa said:
I see that you are not familiar with diplomacy or how that world works. I am not going to try and educate you about how "diplomatic cover" no matter how deliberate or inadvertent is a valuable tactical advantage.

The exercises have been suspended since the first summit. Big bennie.

And who said anything about him ruling based on what his people want. Not me. Do you always have comprehension problems?
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And there it is again, telling people what they are or not familiar with....

Tell me....Russia INVADED Crimea......but you think they need diplomatic "COVER" to have an official VISIT with North Korea...do you know how ****ing retarded that sounds?

And if the military exercises where SCHEDULED.....and THEN SUBSEQUENTLY CALLED OFF AGAIN.....that's not being suspended since the first summit, or should I tell you how much you don't ****ing understand?

And you said he got major domestic benefits for propaganda......why the **** would he need that if you thought he was ruling any other way but WHAT his people want?

It's like words have no meaning to you, you just throw them up and have no idea what they mean for **** sake....
 
sjmay said:
And there it is again, telling people what they are or not familiar with....

Tell me....Russia INVADED Crimea......but you think they need diplomatic "COVER" to have an official VISIT with North Korea...do you know how ****ing retarded that sounds?

And if the military exercises where SCHEDULED.....and THEN SUBSEQUENTLY CALLED OFF AGAIN.....that's not being suspended since the first summit, or should I tell you how much you don't ****ing understand?

And you said he got major domestic benefits for propaganda......why the **** would he need that if you thought he was ruling any other way but WHAT his people want?

It's like words have no meaning to you, you just throw them up and have no idea what they mean for **** sake....
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Again, you are oblivious to a level of communication/interaction at the diplomatic level. It has its own rules, it has its own language, it has its own methods of "counting coup" and wielding power. So looking from the bottom up, I totally understand how the concept of "cover" for making strategic moves is alien to you.

It is not about allowing, its about enabling. Perhaps that is also too nuanced for you.

And there is a very interesting dynamic going on in South Korea. Seems the military commanders keep scheduling the exercises which was SOP until Trump stopped them to please his new found love.
The military keeps scheduling them and the administration keeps postponing them. They are now using the term "indefinitely".

Its almost like the US leaving Syria as trump first ordered, but the military didn't quite obey, until they asked "what about all that oil", to which trump immediately decided to "take it".

Seems its not just the russians and white nationalists that have learned how to manipulate Dear Leader Donnie. History's biggest useful idiot.
 
sjmay said:
And there it is again, telling people what they are or not familiar with....

Tell me....Russia INVADED Crimea......but you think they need diplomatic "COVER" to have an official VISIT with North Korea...do you know how ****ing retarded that sounds?

And if the military exercises where SCHEDULED.....and THEN SUBSEQUENTLY CALLED OFF AGAIN.....that's not being suspended since the first summit, or should I tell you how much you don't ****ing understand?

And you said he got major domestic benefits for propaganda......why the **** would he need that if you thought he was ruling any other way but WHAT his people want?

It's like words have no meaning to you, you just throw them up and have no idea what they mean for **** sake....
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Since the Russians went back into the Crimea "at the invitation of the Crimeans" in EXACTLY the same way that the US went into Hawaii "at the invitation of the Hawai'ians" (with the minor exception that the Crimeans were actually allowed to vote in the referendum [which can NOT be said of Hawai'i] and he other minor exception that the US had absolutely no historical claim to the Hawai'ian Islands [which the Russians most certainly had to the Crimea]) - calling it an "invasion" is REALLY stretching credulity.

Or are you unfamiliar with HOW the US "acquired" Hawai'i (which was an independent and sovereign nation whose government was recognized by the government of the United States of America) without the consent of either the government of Hawai'i or the consent of the Hawai'ian people?
 
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