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Jonathan Turley 'inundated with threatening messages' after testimony opposing Trump impeachment

W_Heisenberg said:
I think Carter is a decent human being as well.



So, to be clear, you wouldn't care if the President did something similar to soliciting a bribe, the basic definition being as follows: trading some official government act or asset in exchange for a personal benefit?

And, in Trump's case not only was he doing something similar to soliciting a bribe, but he was also soliciting a bribe from a foreign country, and doing so within the context of manipulating U.S. foreign policy in pursuit of a personal benefit. The point being Trump's actions wasn't just a run-of-the mill case of bribery.
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Effective bribery has been going on for years inside the Beltway. Why is this so different now?

Please see my preceding post.

Our leaders have never been angels. It is foolish to think they are or should be.
 
Thoreau72 said:
Ron Paul has offered some perspective. He offers a hypothetical that Trump's withholding of funds to Ukraine was because they would not buy American manufactured equipment with those funds. What would have happened then?
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Well I guess Trump shouldn't have obstructed Congress so much then, allowed people to testify and released the requested documents. For if it were something as simple as that, it could have been discovered through those documents and testimony. But Trump obstructed all the way. Not really the actions of an innocent man.

But it should be disconcerting to all the gross expansion of powers that the Executive is grabbing here. By excusing Trump and giving him his way out, you just open the door for even greater abuse in the future. And one interested in a limited government based on the rights and liberties of the individual would most certainly be concerned with the President trying to act the part of King.
 
Phys251 said:
:lamo

You are so desperate to deflect to the rare examples on the opposite side of the aisle because of all the examples on your side. :lol:
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Same tired old leftwing response, such loyalty to liberalism, you going to explain why?? This forum is made up of a lot of people like you who ignore reality, never admit when wrong and are always here provoking discussion in this forum defending liberalism which is indefensible.
 
Ikari said:
Well I guess Trump shouldn't have obstructed Congress so much then, allowed people to testify and released the requested documents. For if it were something as simple as that, it could have been discovered through those documents and testimony. But Trump obstructed all the way. Not really the actions of an innocent man.

But it should be disconcerting to all the gross expansion of powers that the Executive is grabbing here. By excusing Trump and giving him his way out, you just open the door for even greater abuse in the future. And one interested in a limited government based on the rights and liberties of the individual would most certainly be concerned with the President trying to act the part of King.
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I agree with your points really. It seems to me Congress has more important things to do.

Otherwise, recall that The Unitary Executive was brought to us by the Neocons, by Bush, Cheney & Co. Independent thinkers and defenders of the Constitution objected at the time, but the media and Congress seemed fine.

Obama positively embraced the specious notion, and so has The Donald. Why not?

Constitution governance is a thing of the past.
 
Thoreau72 said:
Ron Paul has offered some perspective. He offers a hypothetical that Trump's withholding of funds to Ukraine was because they would not buy American manufactured equipment with those funds. What would have happened then?

Congress Is Trump’s Co-Conspirator Against Liberty - LewRockwell

This was much ado about nothing because IN FACT Washington DC is a gangster's paradise, and has been for years at least.

We are now learning that, no surprise to the cynical amongst us (me), the Pentagon was lying about Afghanistan just as it was lying about Vietnam.

‘Undeniable Evidence’: Explosive Classified Docs Reveal Afghan War Mass Deception - LewRockwell

So why should I give a damn if Trump loves the Unitary Executive more than Bush and Obama together? Sorry, I have scandal-fatigue.
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New Castles or New Cities. We need comprehensive foreign policy and foreign strategy.
 
Thoreau72 said:
I agree with your points really. It seems to me Congress has more important things to do.

Otherwise, recall that The Unitary Executive was brought to us by the Neocons, by Bush, Cheney & Co. Independent thinkers and defenders of the Constitution objected at the time, but the media and Congress seemed fine.

Obama positively embraced the specious notion, and so has The Donald. Why not?

Constitution governance is a thing of the past.
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I think that proper oversight, checks & balances are quite important jobs for Congress. They should be doing it. Presidents have been continually growing their power, and it's too much. Congress should reassert itself and take back the powers stolen.

Impeachment is an important thing to do. Obama was bad, Bush was bad when it came to EOs and usurping powers. But Trump has gone far and beyond anything those guys did. It's too much, it needs to get scaled back. For the Republic to continue, we cannot have a King. So what is going on here is necessary and is important. The President cannot just petition foreign governments to interfere in our elections nor can they just blindly ignore subpoenas of Congress. The Checks and Balances are important and necessary.
 
Ikari said:
I think that proper oversight, checks & balances are quite important jobs for Congress. They should be doing it. Presidents have been continually growing their power, and it's too much. Congress should reassert itself and take back the powers stolen.

Impeachment is an important thing to do. Obama was bad, Bush was bad when it came to EOs and usurping powers. But Trump has gone far and beyond anything those guys did. It's too much, it needs to get scaled back. For the Republic to continue, we cannot have a King. So what is going on here is necessary and is important. The President cannot just petition foreign governments to interfere in our elections nor can they just blindly ignore subpoenas of Congress. The Checks and Balances are important and necessary.
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Well, guess what happens the next time we have a Democrat President and a Republican House? Pelosi and Schiff have turned impeachment from a Constitutional safeguard into a political weapon. Republicans will be forced to use it as well.
 
Conservative said:
Same tired old leftwing response, such loyalty to liberalism
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:lamo

0/10 projection attempt. Your post would have been better if it had been written by a bot. :lol:
 
Ikari said:
I think that proper oversight, checks & balances are quite important jobs for Congress. They should be doing it. Presidents have been continually growing their power, and it's too much. Congress should reassert itself and take back the powers stolen.

Impeachment is an important thing to do. Obama was bad, Bush was bad when it came to EOs and usurping powers. But Trump has gone far and beyond anything those guys did. It's too much, it needs to get scaled back. For the Republic to continue, we cannot have a King. So what is going on here is necessary and is important. The President cannot just petition foreign governments to interfere in our elections nor can they just blindly ignore subpoenas of Congress. The Checks and Balances are important and necessary.
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Checks and balances were hardwired into the very Constitution that Trump loyalists claim to love.

In reality they pick and choose which parts of the Constitution they like.
 
Anthony60 said:
Well, guess what happens the next time we have a Democrat President and a Republican House? Pelosi and Schiff have turned impeachment from a Constitutional safeguard into a political weapon. Republicans will be forced to use it as well.
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If a Democrat President does this same thing Trump is doing, they should be impeached. 100%. And I'm sure that if a Democrat President does exactly the same stuff as Trump, your side would suddenly be concerned with proper limitations on power and obstruction.
 
Phys251 said:
Checks and balances were hardwired into the very Constitution that Trump loyalists claim to love.

In reality they pick and choose which parts of the Constitution they like.
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Trumpeteers do not care about the Constitution, they do not care about the Republic. They care about their Party Power and nothing more.
 
Ikari said:
If a Democrat President does this same thing Trump is doing, they should be impeached. 100%. And I'm sure that if a Democrat President does exactly the same stuff as Trump, your side would suddenly be concerned with proper limitations on power and obstruction.
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No, Trump did nothing impeachable. But, this just shows that as long as you control the House, all you need is a few words from a phone call and a bunch of hearsay witnesses to pronounce their outrage at such an abuse and, boom! You've got all you need to impeach.
 
Anthony60 said:
No, Trump did nothing impeachable. But, this just shows that as long as you control the House, all you need is a few words from a phone call and a bunch of hearsay witnesses to pronounce their outrage at such an abuse and, boom! You've got all you need to impeach.
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There is a lot more to it that "just a few words and a bunch of hearsay", but that is the narrative the GOP-Partisans are using now. But I suppose if a Democrat President in the future uses personal lawyers to subvert the State Department and issue demands of foreign governments to announce investigations against political rivals for political gain while withholding funds to prompt them to do so and then completely obstructing any investigation into it, you'll be like "oh that's cool". Right?

lol

No you won't. If a D does the same thing, y'all will be outraged. But it may happen, because once you start excusing abuse of powers it only gets worse.
 
Phys251 said:
:lamo

0/10 projection attempt. Your post would have been better if it had been written by a bot. :lol:
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Your post in debate forum is why I use the Ignore function a lot lately. You have no interest in debate, just getting attention, never debating.
 
Ikari said:
Trumpeteers do not care about the Constitution, they do not care about the Republic. They care about their Party Power and nothing more.
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Stop the left wing bull**** and stop acting like you care about the Constitution as equal opportunity NOT equal outcome, innocent until PROVEN guilty, freedom of SPEECH are guaranteed rights in that Constitution that you and the radicals continue to ignore and try to change. The Electoral System is also a Constitutional requirement, PROVIDE for the Common defense is in the Constitution, PROMOTE not PROVIDE for Domestic Welfare are also in that Constitution that your party is trashing
 
Conservative said:
Stop the left wing bull**** and stop acting like you care about the Constitution as equal opportunity NOT equal outcome, innocent until PROVEN guilty, freedom of SPEECH are guaranteed rights in that Constitution that you and the radicals continue to ignore and try to change. The Electoral System is also a Constitutional requirement, PROVIDE for the Common defense is in the Constitution, PROMOTE not PROVIDE for Domestic Welfare are also in that Constitution that your party is trashing
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quite a bit of whining and non-sequiturs here. lol

But then again, I suppose if you're defending obstruction and soliciting foreign interference in our elections, non-sequiturs is probably one of the nicer deflections.
 
Conservative said:
Your post in debate forum is why I use the Ignore function a lot lately. You have no interest in debate, just getting attention, never debating.
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What are you blathering about this time? Can't you make an intelligent point already?
 
SkyFox76 said:
Unless he's got recordings, names and faces there's nothing to say the people doing it are from the left. Who knows? They could be coming from some 400 lb guy sitting in his tighty whities, a kfc chicken leg in one hand and a phone in the other. Stuff dreams are made of.
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Bill Clinton??
 
Ikari said:
quite a bit of whining and non-sequiturs here. lol

But then again, I suppose if you're defending obstruction and soliciting foreign interference in our elections, non-sequiturs is probably one of the nicer deflections.
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What part of INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN Guilty don't you understand? Wonder if you would like to be convicted in the court of public opinion based upon hearsay, second and third hand reporting. You spend way too much time listening to rhetoric and ignoring results. IF Russia interfered in our elections what did they get for their efforts? You and your side are doing more to give them what they truly wanted than anything Trump has done because the results generated by Trump don't make Russia any stronger but do make us and NATO stronger. Chaos, division, class envy, jealousy!! Putin is proud of you
 
Conservative said:
What part of INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN Guilty don't you understand? Wonder if you would like to be convicted in the court of public opinion based upon hearsay, second and third hand reporting. You spend way too much time listening to rhetoric and ignoring results. IF Russia interfered in our elections what did they get for their efforts? You and your side are doing more to give them what they truly wanted than anything Trump has done because the results generated by Trump don't make Russia any stronger but do make us and NATO stronger. Chaos, division, class envy, jealousy!! Putin is proud of you
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lol

He's not going to jail is he? And people are tired in the "court of public opinion" all the time. How long have y'all been calling Hillary a crook and saying "lock her up"...but but but what about innocent until proven guilty?

lol

Doesn't count if it's the other side, huh? Partisans don't have integrity.

Putin is very happy with Trump. We know that with Trump, all roads lead to Russia.
 
Ikari said:
lol

He's not going to jail is he? And people are tired in the "court of public opinion" all the time. How long have y'all been calling Hillary a crook and saying "lock her up"...but but but what about innocent until proven guilty?

lol

Doesn't count if it's the other side, huh? Partisans don't have integrity.

Putin is very happy with Trump. We know that with Trump, all roads lead to Russia.
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Yes, they are tried in the court of public opinion all the time, is that something you wouldn't have a problem with? Hillary is a crook as her record shows but a politicized Justice Department hasn't taken action.

Putin is happy with Trump, why? Prove it with data and facts, not your opinion? Strong U.S. Economy and Military? More NATO funding? You really spend way too much time buying what the media tells you and obviously nothing is going to change that liberal bias including facts and data which you never offer
 
Conservative said:
Yes, they are tried in the court of public opinion all the time, is that something you wouldn't have a problem with? Hillary is a crook as her record shows but a politicized Justice Department hasn't taken action.
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She was never tried in court. What happened to INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN Guilty.

lol

Conservative said:
Putin is happy with Trump, why? Prove it with data and facts, not your opinion? Strong U.S. Economy and Military? More NATO funding? You really spend way too much time buying what the media tells you and obviously nothing is going to change that liberal bias including facts and data which you never offer
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There was a reason Putin was pulling for Trump, lol.
 
Ikari said:
She was never tried in court. What happened to INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN Guilty.

lol



There was a reason Putin was pulling for Trump, lol.
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Neither has Trump but you have him guilty. Double standard? What was the reason Putin was pulling for Trump, the liberal reaction to his election?
 
Conservative said:
Neither has Trump but you have him guilty. Double standard? What was the reason Putin was pulling for Trump, the liberal reaction to his election?
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You've found Clinton guilty. Double Standard?

lol
 
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