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Thread: Trump asks Supreme Court to shield financial records from House Democrats

  1. #81
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    Re: Trump asks Supreme Court to shield financial records from House Democrats

    Quote Originally Posted by Exactice View Post
    Yes there are ways to effectively do this. NOW here is the questions

    1) Is it Illegal to file your taxes in a way that you end up PAYING no taxes?
    2) In this event where X person does NOT pay actual taxes, There has to be a legal reason why? Deductions and Losses correct? THIS IS the legal way to reduce your TAX burden because of sustain actual losses
    3) You have, it under a company/entity and pay out in Bonuses. BUT the company is a living entity that pays Taxes thus, legitimate Taxes? You cant avoid actual taxes?


    To my final point. While they may be able to avoid Federal Taxes. They STILL have to buy things and pay state and local taxes that keep the economy going correct? So While they may avoid the X Tax brackets

    They still pay their State/city local taxes that fund and pay the every day economy?
    Most of the tricks that they use are legal though questionable. Equity swapping setting up shell companies and trust funds. Setting up GRATS to avoid estate taxes. These are all loopholes put in place to by the wealthy to benefit the wealthy, those from that elite sector of society. These rules aren’t for the common working man. And yes there is something fundamentally wrong when someone making $49.000 a year is paying a much higher rate, giving more of their income to the government than a billionaire.
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    Re: Trump asks Supreme Court to shield financial records from House Democrats

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The law I posted says they can't.



    You might want to go read that clause:

    ...shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their attendance at the Session of their Respective Houses, and in going to and from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.

    So, you're wrong, again; Congress critters aren't above the law.

    The Pentagon Papers were leaked to the NYT.
    Releasing tax returns is not a felony. It's not even a crime.

    As for the Pentagon Papers, they were given to the Times by Daniel Ellsberg, but the Times only released small excerpts.

    Senator Mike Gravel wanted it all out there. So he got a copy of it from the times, and had 4,100 pages of the Pentagon Papers read into the record. Then he had them published as a book.
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    Re: Trump asks Supreme Court to shield financial records from House Democrats

    Quote Originally Posted by CaughtInThe View Post
    Are you really asking me if companies get away with breaking the law?

    Holy crap.
    What?

    You are implying my opinion was naive and written by a preteen. A non answer and a direct personal attack.

    I made the statement if Trump has DONE any illegal business, and the IRS has his tax returns every year and more so they have likely audited him, What crime did he commit that the IRS has been unable to find. That Warrants the hard push form SDNY for

    I have no idea where that implies I am asking if companies get away with breaking the law? I asked WHAT crimes do you know that the IRS cant and has not seen with the returns and audits they do each year on Trump.
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    Re: Trump asks Supreme Court to shield financial records from House Democrats

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckiechan View Post
    If the Republicans take the house, they will be impeaching Nancy Pelosi. Do you want their tax records public?
    Idk about the rest of DP, but personally Idgaf if the financial records of every elected member of the US Govt were made public.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Trump asks Supreme Court to shield financial records from House Democrats

    Quote Originally Posted by Exactice View Post
    2) (of course he can afford it) BUT he is Proving a point and sticking UP for the people he Represents. NOT to be pushed over with an Unlawful request. PUBLIC citizen's DO NOT have to submit their Taxes to anyone without a LEGAL cause. Trump is NOT accuse of ANY crimes. SO why does he have to submit his taxes IF there was a crime he committed relevant to his financials and a lawful subpoena is issued, he can either comply or appeal.
    WHAT CRIME warrants the disclosure of his taxes to which the IRS which has it and has direct communications with the FBI has NEVER filed a federal charge against Trump at this moment.
    If the all the Courts agree with one another that the records should be turned over, how is that different than a "Legal cause"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Exactice View Post
    3) Trump since 2016 (2017) Has been under CONSTANT Audit as required by the constitution.
    Can you provide some background for this Constitutional requirement?
    I don't recall hearing about it yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exactice View Post
    WHAT crime is he accused of that requires his compliance?
    The Courts seem to be of the opinion that your question's moot.

    How does that figure in to your figuring?
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Trump asks Supreme Court to shield financial records from House Democrats

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    Most of the tricks that they use are legal though questionable. Equity swapping setting up shell companies and trust funds. Setting up GRATS to avoid estate taxes. These are all loopholes put in place to by the wealthy to benefit the wealthy, those from that elite sector of society. These rules aren’t for the common working man. And yes there is something fundamentally wrong when someone making $49.000 a year is paying a much higher rate, giving more of their income to the government than a billionaire.
    I can completely agree and respect that more so I totally understand all you have stated. So do you lay blame to the billionaires? or do you lay blame to those that have enact such loopholes.

    Secondly. Can you say that the 1%ers are evil and cruel or can you say, that say we took that 1%ers.....lets say there is 50,000 of them in the the US, 50% are scummy and just amass wealth, The Other 50% pay their taxes but are also legitimate philanthropist?


    I make NO where near a 1%er, but I also understand the value of the business that I have setup. The ability to hire and pay wages of other people, giving them opportunities to either be on a W2 and enjoy their comfort or pay a "go getter" a 1099 and the sky is the limits for them.

    While I may benefit from certain portions of tax law, my business entity still pays the appropriate portions and profit is then distributed OR placed in something that can benefit "as profit" interest bearing accounts or tax shelters. Is that WRONG?

    Now here is the kicker, Is what I built immune to some? NO, I started from NOTHING and built it to where it is now. That means ANYONE with the same drive to build what I have "CAN" do it if they really wanted to. NO one can stop them from doing so.


    fact remains though some are NOT willing to take the risk, some are NOT willing to put in the effort. So is it my fault that the benefits available to me were due to my actions rather then forcing someone to meet my demands?
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    Re: Trump asks Supreme Court to shield financial records from House Democrats

    Quote Originally Posted by trixare4kids View Post
    Or he is simply exercising his constitutional rights. Why are you against this?
    The more court battles he loses, the less likely it seems that Trump actually has the rights you say he does.

    It seems if he actually had these rights, he wouldn't need so many appeals for these various cases.

    Ianal tho so...
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Trump asks Supreme Court to shield financial records from House Democrats

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDoctorWasIn View Post
    Releasing tax returns is not a felony. It's not even a crime.

    As for the Pentagon Papers, they were given to the Times by Daniel Ellsberg, but the Times only released small excerpts.

    Senator Mike Gravel wanted it all out there. So he got a copy of it from the times, and had 4,100 pages of the Pentagon Papers read into the record. Then he had them published as a book.
    Yes, it's absolutely a crime and a felony:

    Congress has enacted a number of statutes that make willful violation of the disclosure rules a crime. First up is §7213 which imposes a fine up to $5,000, and up to five years’ imprisonment for any willful violation of §6103.

    Disclosing President Trump's Tax Returns - An Unconventional Idea
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    Re: Trump asks Supreme Court to shield financial records from House Democrats

    Quote Originally Posted by dobieg View Post
    ...the IRS is the agency who looks at tax returns and determines if there were any crimes committed.
    I think they just look at tax related crimes rather than any crimes.

    Sometimes accurate tax records can provide evidence of crimes which are not tax related.

    There's no reason to believe that the IRS would know about the implications of the numbers outside of the scope of taxes.
    The IRS wouldn't know if the accurately reported income was the result of an illegal activity.
    e.g.
    If I make $50,000 selling gold I mined, and I claim that $50,000 income for tax purposes, me and the IRS are cool.
    Looking at my tax records, they won't have the wherewithal to know if I mined that gold from someone else's mine.
    But an LEO who knows that my mine is tapped out, would be able to look at the income from mined gold and see that something was ****y.

    So, the fact that the IRS has not tried to have Trump arrested (or w/e it is they would do) is not a guarantee that no crimes were committed.
    At best, it's an indication that IRS has not seen cause to take any action.

    Though, I think the first action the IRS would take if they saw something ****y in someone's taxes would be to begin an audit.
    IRS apparently has begun an audit of Trump.

    It seems the results of the audit inform the IRS's next step. 'Cause just because something looks ****y, doesn't mean it necessarily is ****y. If the audit shows everything is decent, then the IRS closes the case. If the audit shows that the stuff that looked ****y actually IS ****y, then the IRS will probably keep the case open instead.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Trump asks Supreme Court to shield financial records from House Democrats

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    If the all the Courts agree with one another that the records should be turned over, how is that different than a "Legal cause"?


    Can you provide some background for this Constitutional requirement?
    I don't recall hearing about it yet.


    The Courts seem to be of the opinion that your question's moot.

    How does that figure in to your figuring?
    Yes if All the courts agree he has to release than thats the the ruling, BUT Trump has every right to appeal to the next court. Once it reaches SCOTUS there is no where to go and if ruled to release he then has to comply BUT we are NOT there yet and he is exercising his legal rights to appeal. NOTHING Illegal


    SHOOT my apologies, I made an error, my thought process was incorrect, it was NOT the constitution I stand correct, it is the IRS

    3.28.3.5.3 (01-01-2020)
    Mandatory Examination
    Individual income tax returns for the President and Vice President are subject to mandatory examinations. See IRM 4.2.1.15, Processing Returns and Accounts of the President and Vice President.



    The President and VP are under mandatory examination of their tax returns (while in office)


    Thank you for catching that I have corrected.




    The courts seem to be of? Yes the first lower courts do, The 9th circuit has appeals has objected to almost everything trump does and it goes to the next court and the next till it reaches the SCOTUS, remember the "Travel Ban", "DACA" is there now, "ACA repeal is going there too now"

    So yes its almost guaranteed anything to do with TRUMP will be Challenged period, but a lower court for their favor. DOES NOT make it right

    and DOES NOT exclude the right to appeal a ruling
    Last edited by Exactice; 12-05-19 at 07:58 PM.
    Treat all firearms as if they are loaded
    Do not point the firearm at anything you dont intend to destroy
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