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Pelosi directs House Democrats to proceed with articles of impeachment against Trump

Hey, I respect that! I hope I'm using due diligence in my thoughts, but I make no claim to be perfect.

But I will leave you with this: I believed Clinton should have been removed after his impeachment. I don't want to litigate the entire thing, except to say for me it was a values thing - he defiled the the Peoples' house IMO. It wasn't about Bill cheating on his wife - I could care less. But it was about doing it in the office that's a symbol of the People and all we stand for. For that, I wanted him out.

So, I do tend to sometimes take strong stands on values at times. Which is why I am sickened by Trump.


I loved Clinton, hated Newt and Starr and was irritated with the whole thing. The fact Clinton used typical political double talk BS didn't bother me in light of how he was being attacked. Of course, like I said previously, Clinton's policies at the time appealed to me so I naturally gave him the benefit of the doubt.

If I was looking for a politician with integrity and honesty, I'd elect a Carter clone. But I'm far more concerned with policy and what I believe is better for the well being of me, my family and my fellow Americans.
 
What are you talking about it's pure hatred? You clearly don't know what hatred even is. I do not hate Donald Trump.

I PITY Donald Trump.

Of course you pity Trump because that is what liberals do, feel instead of thinking. You claimed that Trump broke the law in Ukraine, where is the compelling proof, certainly not here

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QPQ Confirmed by Sondland tied to the meeting, presumed tied to the aid, confirmed by Mulveney. Additionally, the impoundment of funding apportioned by congress was unduly and illegally manufactured. Trump had to ask for that impoundment or release the funds before 45 days from the fiscal year end for the federal budget, which he did not do.

Moreover, the funding was released, oddly, right after the announcement of the WB report and pending house inquiry.

Go on. Explain to me why I should suspend common sense.

Because presumed doesn't mean factual or confirmed, this does

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What part of NO don't you understand when talking about Quid Pro Quo?
 
I can count the ways, but you won't accept them, so what point is there in posting them? Or even Chomsky. What point is there in detailing to you what we think, when you won't even respect our opinions enough to consider them.

I'm in the same place. It's a waste of time to talk to most Trump supporters anymore. I've gotten so much crap about saying that recently. Admittedly, I do feel badly about writing off so many people, but enough is enough. Whether they meant to annoy the real world to the point that they were dismissed outright so they could claim that they're victims of an intolerant mob or they did it just by accident, questions like, "What has Trump done wrong?", "Where's the proof?", and "What has Trump or Republicans lied about?" just don't deserve the time it takes to write a full response. I already know what the reaction will be, so I don't bother.

Patriotism is dissent. Second, no one is against securing our borders, some of us simply think the wall is a waste of our tax dollars. I support a merit based system - but you wouldn't know that, because to you, I am just a lib-dem-commie traitor who hates america.



Personal responsibility? This isn't even a thing in the conservative arsenal anymore, so I am not sure why you're bringing it up. States rights? You mean trampling them by using executive power to dictate to california that california is not allowed to set emission standards for itself? Or, telling states they cannot regulate firearms, marriage, etc? Or, the ACA?



Stop expecting us to police the world? You mean like proposing endless soldiery into the ME to check Iran? Or, moving troops from northern syria, betraying our allies, to not bring them home, but instead, to guard the "oil." Is that the sort of patriotism you mean? Or, how about denigrating and insulting our own cities, senators, congresspeople, governors, state legislatures, men, women, children, in almost every state across the union?

Is it patriotic to say to california no federal aid against wildfires because Nancy Pelosi, a CA congresswoman and speaker of the house, is actively impeaching the president? Is it patriotic to see our american brothers and sisters in california suffer, all to satisfy the ego of Trump?



What's not patriotic is pardoning war criminals. That's certainly not patriotic. It's also not patriotic to spend hundreds of billions of tax dollars to endlessly occupy other nations, sending our troops all over the world. If they were defending us, they'd be best used here.

I

Your definition of patriotism is based on ignorance of the above, and an acceptance of only your perspective, so much so that you denigrate and soil rational conversation, project onto your opponents, and insist everyone else is not a patriot, just because we dare to question something you agree with.

Don't you even dare to try and lecture any of us about patriotism.
 
Nice diversion, now tell me where the violation of the law was that you want to impeach Trump on? You made the claim that Sondland's testimony proves Trump violated the law, looks to me like his testimony exonerates Trump from your claim

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No crime is needed to impeach POTUS. No diversion. I want your explanation, right now. I want you to go on the record explaining my political position for the forum.

He also DID break fund apportionment impounding laws, for sure. He had to request in writing 45 days before 9/30/19 to impound those funds, OR, release them before 45 days prior to 9/30/19.

He failed to do that.
 
I loved Clinton, hated Newt and Starr and was irritated with the whole thing. The fact Clinton used typical political double talk BS didn't bother me in light of how he was being attacked. Of course, like I said previously, Clinton's policies at the time appealed to me so I naturally gave him the benefit of the doubt.

If I was looking for a politician with integrity and honesty, I'd elect a Carter clone. But I'm far more concerned with policy and what I believe is better for the well being of me, my family and my fellow Americans.
Apparently, you were not alone! :mrgreen:
 
Of course you pity Trump because that is what liberals do, feel instead of thinking. You claimed that Trump broke the law in Ukraine, where is the compelling proof, certainly not here

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More hubris and arrogance in presuming about me. I pity Trump because I don't believe Trump ever wanted to govern; I believe he just wanted to lose the election and then make a big right wing news media empire with his name on it.

Seems you sure as **** feel alot about me. Still waiting for your explanation of who I am, what I believe, what my politics are, which gods I follow, what my favorite sexual position is, etc.

Do enlighten us, thou declarer of arrogance.
 
Because presumed doesn't mean factual or confirmed, this does

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What part of NO don't you understand when talking about Quid Pro Quo?

Sondland and Mulveney confirmed the QPQ.

Get over it.
 
Is there a single Republican at the national level who isn't a worthless partisan hack?

Will Hurd comes to mind. No. I take that back. I can't think of a single Republican at the national level who isn't a worthless partisan hack, but that's not to say that there aren't any. I'm no fan of the Democrats either, but the Republican party has done almost everything I could have possibly imagined to alienate me and prevent me from voting for it (at least on the national level) for the rest of my life.
 
Will Hurd comes to mind. No. I take that back. I can't think of a single Republican at the national level who isn't a worthless partisan hack, but that's not to say that there aren't any. I'm no fan of the Democrats either, but the Republican party has done almost everything I could have possibly imagined to alienate me and prevent me from voting for it (at least on the national level) for the rest of my life.

I'm not on team Democrat either. The American political landscape as a whole is too far right for me


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He called you a lemming. But he was super secret about it.

Ah, I see. Says the guy who has Durham as his avatar, the guy who is telling all these Trump-ingrates their little mythology is nothing but a fairy tale.
 
I'm not on team Democrat either. The American political landscape as a whole is too far right for me


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You can thank the worthless democrats abdicating the working class and policy heritage of FDR to try and appeal to a bunch of neocon reagan voters in the 80s.

This revanchism will eventually take hold and the dem party will be reshaped into the party of workers rights.
 
You can thank the worthless democrats abdicating the working class and policy heritage of FDR to try and appeal to a bunch of neocon reagan voters in the 80s.

This revanchism will eventually take hold and the dem party will be reshaped into the party of workers rights.

I think the fates of Hubert Humphrey and George McGovern’s Presidential campaigns kind of throw a wrench into your theory there.
 
No crime is needed to impeach POTUS. No diversion. I want your explanation, right now. I want you to go on the record explaining my political position for the forum.

He also DID break fund apportionment impounding laws, for sure. He had to request in writing 45 days before 9/30/19 to impound those funds, OR, release them before 45 days prior to 9/30/19.

He failed to do that.

So you support the impeachment for political reasons and won't have a problem with the Republicans return the favor simply because they don't like the Democratic President? Trump didn't do anything wrong except in your own mind as you now move to another issue realizing Sondland didn't say what you claim. This is a non issue to most Americans and wouldn't be an issue for you if it was a Democratic President in office. You know it, I know it as does everyone else.
 
More hubris and arrogance in presuming about me. I pity Trump because I don't believe Trump ever wanted to govern; I believe he just wanted to lose the election and then make a big right wing news media empire with his name on it.

Seems you sure as **** feel alot about me. Still waiting for your explanation of who I am, what I believe, what my politics are, which gods I follow, what my favorite sexual position is, etc.

Do enlighten us, thou declarer of arrogance.

Whether Trump wanted to be President or not is irrelevant, he is President and his results speak for themselves. Americans are better off today than three years ago and cannot say the same thing in 2016 with Hillary on the ballot. Our economy was headed towards recession, GDP growth was falling, there was economic malaise, and we have a politicized FBI and Justice Department along with the IRS as the Obama legacy was rejected. Russia didn't change my vote, Hillary did.

What part of me NOT LIKING TRUMP don't you understand? I spent 35 years in the business world and I respect results. I am getting those results from Trump, you are not getting the social engineering you seem to want. There is no justification for voting for any of the Democrats running for the office now so I will gladly vote for Trump. There is no compelling evidence of a crime therefore I do not support Impeachment regardless of the party. Apparently this is something don't understand either. A high crime and misdemeanor is a requirement in my world for Impeachment, not politics
 
So you support the impeachment for political reasons and won't have a problem with the Republicans return the favor simply because they don't like the Democratic President? Trump didn't do anything wrong except in your own mind as you now move to another issue realizing Sondland didn't say what you claim. This is a non issue to most Americans and wouldn't be an issue for you if it was a Democratic President in office. You know it, I know it as does everyone else.

Well, I consider breaking the impoundment laws to be "doing something wrong", regardless of how you feel about it. Moreover, it's not a non-issue to most americans. Your OWN LINK from earlier shows the majority of individuals of the country support the impeachment of Donald John Trump!

It's an issue because no one I know has any trust the 2020 election will be legitimate. On both sides, everyone is saying it.

And yes, It WOULD be an issue for me; but then again, you're so busy stuffing what you THINK my beliefs are into my mouth you haven't listened to a word I've said.

That's your issue, not mine.
 
Sondland and Mulveney confirmed the QPQ.

Get over it.

So apparently English isn't your first language because that is NOT what the video shows. Because you want something to be true doesn't make it true. what is it about your ideology that creates this kind of immaturity and inability to admit when wrong?
 
Well, I consider breaking the impoundment laws to be "doing something wrong", regardless of how you feel about it. Moreover, it's not a non-issue to most americans. Your OWN LINK from earlier shows the majority of individuals of the country support the impeachment of Donald John Trump!

It's an issue because no one I know has any trust the 2020 election will be legitimate. On both sides, everyone is saying it.

And yes, It WOULD be an issue for me; but then again, you're so busy stuffing what you THINK my beliefs are into my mouth you haven't listened to a word I've said.

That's your issue, not mine.

A majority to me is 50% not 48% and falling. You simply are a typical liberal malcontent incapable of admitting when wrong, totally clueless when it comes to the Constitution that defines the role of the President as well as the Congress. You personally have too much invested in the hatred of Trump and there is no explanation as to why. No President has ever generated this much negative publicity for 3 years and indoctrinated so many people into hating an individual with term limits who has done absolutely nothing to hurt you, your family, or the country. Maybe you ought to take a civics class, get off your high horse and do some actual research into issues that matter to the American people and who can really do something about them
 
Whether Trump wanted to be President or not is irrelevant, he is President and his results speak for themselves. Americans are better off today than three years ago and cannot say the same thing in 2016 with Hillary on the ballot.

Well, I guess it's irrelevant, because you already know what I am going to say next, and you know why I'll say it. Still waiting for you to explain to me what my political stances are. I'd wager we would agree on quite a bit; then again, we can't do that because you're too busy stuffing my mouth with your presumptions.

The last sentence I disagree with. This was a global economic turn around, not explicit to the US. You do not know (nor do I) what would have happened with HRC were in office (Though I assume you will presume a whole lot, on this point.)

Our economy was headed towards recession, GDP growth was falling, there was economic malaise, and we have a politicized FBI and Justice Department along with the IRS as the Obama legacy was rejected. Russia didn't change my vote, Hillary did.

Politicized FBI? You mean as dismissed by the Durham report? :lamo

What part of me NOT LIKING TRUMP don't you understand? I spent 35 years in the business world and I respect results. I am getting those results from Trump, you are not getting the social engineering you seem to want. There is no justification for voting for any of the Democrats running for the office now so I will gladly vote for Trump.

What part of you not liking trump is IRRELEVANT TO ME PERSONALLY don't YOU understand? Social engineering? Tell me, what engineering do I want?

There is no compelling evidence of a crime therefore I do not support Impeachment regardless of the party. Apparently this is something don't understand either. A high crime and misdemeanor is a requirement in my world for Impeachment, not politics

The impoundment law was explicitly broken. That's not up for debate.

Your world, sadly, is irrelevant, and you're sold to Trump. So I really could not care less what your opinion is of him. Had the democrats not resisted him from Day 1, as the REPUBLICANS DID WITH OBAMA, you STILL would not support this inquiry, and you know it. If this were a dem you'd be swearing up and down you want them impeached, and you know that also.

Your credibility is in the dumpster.
 
So apparently English isn't your first language because that is NOT what the video shows. Because you want something to be true doesn't make it true. what is it about your ideology that creates this kind of immaturity and inability to admit when wrong?

I really do not have anymore patience for your incessant projection, ad hominem, personal attacks, presumptions, and mischaracterizations.

I'll gladly debate this with you - but I am not going to do so as long as you keep this up. You may as well take this to the basement, because frankly, that's the only way we will continue with your personal attacks. Seal this up or take it there. We're no longer discussing this topic with how you act.
 
I agree this impeachment is political'; aren't they all?

But above that, I believe it now is Constitutional. Trump has crossed the boundaries of Constitutional behaviour. And I wouldn't say that, if I didn't mean it.

I don't know if he has or hasn't. I've put all of the partisan propaganda on ignore since the end of the first year of Trump's administration. I thought Mueller's report would be the end of all of this. When it didn't, I simply ignore both sides. I'd had enough.

You may be very well correct. I'd rather much more work on my senate, house and presidency forecasts than listen to all the propaganda being spouted from both sides. I haven't watched a single minute of the hearings. When the news starts to talk about them, I switch channels. MLB network, politics free except for the Hall of Fame ballots and who wins all the major awards. Now how the public views all of this, that interests me. As for Trump, if he goes fine, if he stays fine. Let the die hard's of each side fight this out. I'm past the point of caring or even listening except to see how impeachment might affect my forecasts.
 
I don't know if he has or hasn't. I've put all of the partisan propaganda on ignore since the end of the first year of Trump's administration. I thought Mueller's report would be the end of all of this. When it wasn't, simply ignore both sides. I'd had enough.

You may be very well correct. I'd rather much more work on my senate, house and presidency predictions than listen to all the propaganda being spouted from both sides. Now how the public views all of this, that interests me. As for Trump, if he goes fine, if he stays fine. Let the die hard's of each side fight this out. I'm past the point of caring or even listening except to see how impeachment might affect my forecasts.
I can respect this.

As for me, I can get a bit passionate at times, particularly when I feel my core values are being breached. Though my opinion is of course no reflection upon yours. You have my great respect (as always).
 
I don't know if he has or hasn't. I've put all of the partisan propaganda on ignore since the end of the first year of Trump's administration. I thought Mueller's report would be the end of all of this. When it wasn't, simply ignore both sides. I'd had enough.

You may be very well correct. I'd rather much more work on my senate, house and presidency predictions than listen to all the propaganda being spouted from both sides. Now how the public views all of this, that interests me. As for Trump, if he goes fine, if he stays fine. Let the die hard's of each side fight this out. I'm past the point of caring or even listening except to see how impeachment might affect my forecasts.

The constitutional question is what do we as society tolerate. The democrats are in a bad position, and the GOP is even worse. The dems are trying to hold this together, against essentially two warring factions. The GOP has simply sold itself to the base and is obstructionist to the absolute core. The dems will accept nothing but removal.

Here's the key.

No one trusts the legitimacy of 2020's election, and we haven't even had it yet. No one I know - on either side - trusts the outcome.

That is why we are in a constitutional crisis area here.
 
I really do not have anymore patience for your incessant projection, ad hominem, personal attacks, presumptions, and mischaracterizations.

I'll gladly debate this with you - but I am not going to do so as long as you keep this up. You may as well take this to the basement, because frankly, that's the only way we will continue with your personal attacks. Seal this up or take it there. We're no longer discussing this topic with how you act.

Great, use the ignore function like I have many times. you see actual data and facts have no place in your world. I posted the actual video of Sondland directly talking to Schiff. That isn't enough for you showing exactly what a true partisan is
 
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