Worry rises in military over Trump's decision-making

j brown's body said:

The politicization of the military is the work of tyrants. It should be obvious that a divided military is not in our country's best interest.

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So you're calling nearly every president we've ever had, a tyrant... yeah... have fun with that.

j brown's body said:

Because stability, order, integrity and the rule of law have no place in a military. Chaos, impulsiveness, and partisanship are the orders of the day

He can get rid of the generals and put Rudy in charge, if he doesn't go to prison.

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So you say, but that doesn't actually make it true.

Caligula appointed his horse as first consul of the republic.

Trump appointed as his lawyer a horse's ass named Rudy from New York.

So while it's true history doesn't repeat itself, it sure does rhyme a lot.

Tangmo said:

You haven't any substantive counter statements to make to three different 4-star officers, an Army one shredding Trump on his being joined at Putin's hip, a Navy one saying Trump is the greatest threat to democracy in his lifetime, and an Air Force one saying an order by Trump to launch nuclear weapons would be illegal. Two of 'em are retired, one is active and just the past summer he became vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

You are just another discombobulated Putin-Trump Rower.

The generals and admirals active duty and retired shut Trump up in 2017 when he was running amok initially in military and defense matters of national security and sovereignty.

Now however Trump is coming back at the military chiefs and commanders as this thread and topic present and discuss. Yet you as a Putin-Trump Rower haven't any reply, answer, response. I will go out on a limb here to say the three of you, ie, Putin-Trump Rowers will end up at the bottom of the drink.

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My substantive counter argument was based on the Wikipedia article you posted.

Your counter argument is to simply spam that same Wikipedia article. Because you have no argument. And instead petulantly lash out.

OK boomer. [emoji106]

Aberration said:

My substantive counter argument was based on the Wikipedia article you posted.

Your counter argument is to simply spam that same Wikipedia article. Because you have no argument. And instead petulantly lash out.

OK boomer. [emoji106]

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You're sleep posting.

You keep referring to a supposed Wiki article I didn't post, quote, use. And then you say from the dark side of the moon that I "span that same Wikipedia article." That would be the Wikipedia article you say I keep using that I know I didn't post or use. And that I haven't any argument so I "petulantly lash out."

All of which erroneous garble by you makes you just another discombobulated Putin-Trump Rower.

Your problem is that you absolutely haven't any substantive counter statements to make to three different 4-star officers I have presented to the thread and topic:

1) An Army 4-star retired shredding Trump on his being joined at Putin's hip
2) A Navy 4-star retired saying Trump is the greatest threat to democracy in his lifetime
3) And an Air Force 4-star on active duty saying publicly an order by Trump to launch nuclear weapons would be illegal. That is AF Gen. John Hyten who the past summer became vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff -- the advancement of whom to become the number #2 officer of the armed forces seems to have escaped Trump's attention.

The three represent and state the profound issues that press on the generals and admirals active duty and retired, ie, Trump is a direct and immediate menace to our national sovereignty, our national security, the defense of the nation and its people, and to the Constitution itself.

So I hope you don't think Trump will be forgiven to continue on his destructive path for much longer. Especially given the Putin-Trump Rowers know what the generals and admirals say is true and that the 4-star officers I am referencing have now come to their point of no return concerning Putin-Trump & Rowers. The question of the moment is how long they'll be in their holding pattern.

Somerville said:

The beginning of this little back and forth







I've done a search or two and have not found a source for the claim that "Obama purged the military of nearly 200 top ranking officers". Saying something is true while throwing in a casual denigration or two doesn't advance your's and others' claims about Obama giving the boot to "nearly 200 top-ranking officers".

No support - then some of us will say the original slur against Obama is little more than political slime. Your choice.

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Obama fired McCrystal and Petraeus for political and personal reasons. I suspect there were plenty of groveling sycophants begging to take their places.

Tangmo said:

You're sleep posting.

You keep referring to a supposed Wiki article I didn't post, quote, use. And then you say from the dark side of the moon that I "span that same Wikipedia article." That would be the Wikipedia article you say I keep using that I know I didn't post or use. And that I haven't any argument so I "petulantly lash out."

All of which erroneous garble by you makes you just another discombobulated Putin-Trump Rower.

Your problem is that you absolutely haven't any substantive counter statements to make to three different 4-star officers I have presented to the thread and topic:

1) An Army 4-star retired shredding Trump on his being joined at Putin's hip
2) A Navy 4-star retired saying Trump is the greatest threat to democracy in his lifetime
3) And an Air Force 4-star on active duty saying publicly an order by Trump to launch nuclear weapons would be illegal. That is AF Gen. John Hyten who the past summer became vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff -- the advancement of whom to become the number #2 officer of the armed forces seems to have escaped Trump's attention.

The three represent and state the profound issues that press on the generals and admirals active duty and retired, ie, Trump is a direct and immediate menace to our national sovereignty, our national security, the defense of the nation and its people, and to the Constitution itself.

So I hope you don't think Trump will be forgiven to continue on his destructive path for much longer. Especially given the Putin-Trump Rowers know what the generals and admirals say is true and that the 4-star officers I am referencing have now come to their point of no return concerning Putin-Trump & Rowers. The question of the moment is how long they'll be in their holding pattern.

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My bad. It was the other idiot posting Wikipedia. You just post the same article or an article that says the same thing. Which is all in the Wikipedia link. Word for word.

Regardless, they don’t represent other than their opinions. And ones opinion is formed not by actual concern about Trump and the country, but his own invested interests.

Which is why I did substantively label him a hack.

Aberration said:

My bad. It was the other idiot posting Wikipedia. You just post the same article or an article that says the same thing. Which is all in the Wikipedia link. Word for word.

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My three posts of three 4-star officers of Army, Navy, Air Force are linked to the mass media source of each that contains the original quotes of each general or admiral. Anything Wikipedia may have done on each of 'em was drawn from MSM sources that are same or similar to the original MSM sources I linked in each of the three posts. Which means your trying to place me in Wikipedia and only in Wikipedia is a bust. Not only are you lagging and wrong, you're in the wrong forest. Behind the 8 ball indeed.

Regardless, they don’t represent other than their opinions. And ones opinion is formed not by actual concern about Trump and the country, but his own invested interests.

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Almost all of the 88 retired generals and admirals of 1-star to 4-star rank who endorsed Trump in the campaign (2015-16) have long since gone silent on Trump. At first the 88 and everyone else military welcomed and praised budget increases and more authority and latitude to local and regional commanders engaged abroad, and so on. That came from Trump taking a firm stand for mom, apple pie, the national anthem and Old Glory -- and so on. The Trump retired generals and admirals soon began to pipe down however led by the following factors:

1) The Army 4-star retired McCaffrey publicly shredded Trump on his being joined at Putin's hip
2) The Navy 4-star retired McRaven said publicly Trump is the greatest threat to democracy in his lifetime
3) An Air Force 4-star on active duty said publicly at a defense forum that an order by Trump to launch nuclear weapons would be illegal. That is AF Gen. John Hyten who the past summer became vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff -- the advancement of whom to become the number #2 uniformed officer of the armed forces seems to have escaped and evaded Trump's attention.

Which is why I did substantively label him a hack.

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Which one? You've always posted replies to me about one, when I made three separate posts about the three 4-star individual officers (who I also identified in this post).

Your chronic problems of cognition and comprehension are that, while I made three separate posts of three individual 4-star officers, you have always referred to one and to Wikipedia which I did not source (as I've repeated yet again in this post).

You seem to be seeing three posts of a one same 4-star and that the "spam" posts you're hallucinating come from Wikipedia -- which the three individual and separate posts do not do. And which is why I say again your posts derive from the dark side of the moon out there. You are light years away from here in fact.

Tangmo said:

Link to the survey you quoted by Military Times and year plse thx.

Military Times does surveys and polls in successive years, usually bi-anually.


The most recent survey by MT that I can find had Trump's approval at 44% and disapproval at 43%. That was in 2018.

In 2016, a MT poll showed that 46 percent of troops approved of Trump compared with 37 percent who disapproved.

The headline on the 2018 survey that included the chart above said: "Support for Trump is fading among active-duty troops, new poll shows"


Support for Trump is fading among active-duty troops, new poll shows

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Military Times Poll: What you really think about Trump

So that was from 2017.

Let's look at July, 2019.



Strong support for Trump among veterans in new national poll

July 10

marke said:

Obama fired McCrystal and Petraeus for political and personal reasons. I suspect there were plenty of groveling sycophants begging to take their places.

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Once again, the True Believer posts some words without support for their reality. Really, you think the American military is full of "groveling(sic) sycophants? Nice patriotism you got. I guess you believe the True American Militia will suffice in any oncoming conflict.

I wonder what year it happened when it became fashionable for military men to become involved in politics?

Wasn't there a time in the US when professional military men remained above the dirt by not voting?

ocean515 said:

Military Times Poll: What you really think about Trump

So that was from 2017.

Let's look at July, 2019.



Strong support for Trump among veterans in new national poll

July 10

In a survey of nearly 1,300 veterans conducted in May and June, 57 percent of respondents said they approve of how Trump is leading the armed forces. In contrast, about 41 percent said they disapprove of how he has handled running the military.​

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Apparently, you failed to read that the two polls looked at two different groups - One was "active-duty troops" and the other was "veterans". The differing results might be caused by the difference in average age between veterans and active-duty personnel.

quote from the Military Times Oct 2018 article

Support is fading for Trump among active-duty troops

“The general rule of thumb with the military is that it moves along with public opinion but lags conservative,” said Peter Feaver, a former adviser to former President George W. Bush who is now a political science professor at Duke University and an author of several books on military culture.

The new survey results also show sharp divides within the ranks. Enlisted men show Trump the most overwhelming support. Military women, meanwhile, have a much harsher view of Trump’s time in office. Officers still have a lower opinion of his presidency than enlisted troops.

The poll, which includes responses from nearly 900 active-duty troops in recent weeks, comes just a few weeks before the November midterm elections, where the balance of power in Congress could shift, potentially redefining Trump’s presidency.

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Mycroft said:

Those "top military leaders" are free to move on if they don't like Trump's decisions and actions.

But guess what...the military won't miss them if they do.

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I see you are OK with war crimes, like ordering troops to fire "near" children to "scare" them as testified in one hearing?

With Trump it always comes down to one thing.

Fox news.

If Fox started saying single payer was the best option Trump would be on board.

Somerville said:

Apparently, you failed to read that the two polls looked at two different groups - One was "active-duty troops" and the other was "veterans". The differing results might be caused by the difference in average age between veterans and active-duty personnel.

quote from the Military Times Oct 2018 article

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Apparently you failed to read that the two polls were conducted by different groups. The latest, by the far left Pew Research people.

Wouldn't the most recent poll be something of value?

Also from Pew's Polling.



But let's bottom line it, it's critical that you prove everyone hates the President, as opposed to letting the numbers speak for themselves?

Yes/No?

ocean515 said:

Apparently you failed to read that the two polls were conducted by different groups. The latest, by the far left Pew Research people.

Wouldn't the most recent poll be something of value?

Also from Pew's Polling.

Almost 60 percent of service members in that survey believed the military was in stronger shape with Trump as its leader than under President Barack Obama. But the overall assessment of Trump as president was evenly split, with 44 percent of troops holding a favorable view of his work and 43 percent expressing a negative opinion.​

But let's bottom line it, it's critical that you prove everyone hates the President, as opposed to letting the numbers speak for themselves?

Yes/No?

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Once again, a person with certain political leanings shows the readers that absolutism is inherent as part of their ideology - the old "My Way or the Hiway" that was often attributed to GW Bush.

Let me explain in simple words: Disapproval does not equate with Hatred

Tangmo said:

Enlisted are the backbone of the armed forces and the officer corps are the brains of it. Morale and espirit de corps includes all members of the force, ie, junior EP, NCO, officers up and down the ranks.

The armed force as unitary and whole has always been the case anywhere and during all of history. It's never going to change. EP call officers 'sir' or 'madam' while officers refer to EP by rank and surname.

So it's a two sided coin yet many only speak of the EP backbone of it. EP have the enlisted oath and officers have the officer oath. Both are to the Constitution only. This constitutes a difference but not a divide. The force is unitary and it remains cohesive. Face it, accept it and get used to it before it begins to look like you came out of the force with less than you carried and brought going into it.

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Don't get carried away...lol

Obscurity said:

I see you are OK with war crimes, like ordering troops to fire "near" children to "scare" them as testified in one hearing?

With Trump it always comes down to one thing.

Fox news.

If Fox started saying single payer was the best option Trump would be on board.

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So...you have nothing to say relevant to the point of my comment so you toss out irrelevant things.

Sorry...none of that **** sticks.

j brown's body said:

Worry rises in Pentagon over Trump'''s decision making - CNNPolitics

For his disparagement of ****-hole countries, he certainly aspires to their levels of corruption.

In a sense, it was only a matter of time.

If he gets a second term, don't be surprised if he implements personal loyalty oathes among "my warfighters".

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What is it you don't understand about "Commander-In-Chief"?

ocean515 said:

Military Times Poll: What you really think about Trump

So that was from 2017.

Let's look at July, 2019.



Strong support for Trump among veterans in new national poll

July 10

In a survey of nearly 1,300 veterans conducted in May and June, 57 percent of respondents said they approve of how Trump is leading the armed forces. In contrast, about 41 percent said they disapprove of how he has handled running the military.​

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I think the poll is wrong. I believe his approval rating is much higher.

Mycroft said:

So...you have nothing to say relevant to the point of my comment so you toss out irrelevant things.

Sorry...none of that **** sticks.

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Oh it sticks. You embrace war crimes and war criminals and you expect the rest of us to say well, it's trump's right to pardon them.

No. We have freedom of speech. Sorry, your president SUCKS.

Obscurity said:

Oh it sticks. You embrace war crimes and war criminals and you expect the rest of us to say well, it's trump's right to pardon them.

No. We have freedom of speech. Sorry, your president SUCKS.

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blah, blah, blah...

You are dismissed. (see my sig)

Mycroft said:

blah, blah, blah...

You are dismissed. (see my sig)

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Thanks for surrendering. It must have been so tiring all this time to bear the burden of so many lies.

if you're a military member and you have lived your life believing in Honor and Integrity, why would you support a dirty guy who has neither?

CaughtInThe said:

if you're a military member and you have lived your life believing in Honor and Integrity, why would you support a dirty guy who has neither?

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If you are a military member, it doesn't matter if you support the President or if you think he's a "dirty guy". If he gives you an order, you say "Yes, Sir." and carry it out.

If you don't, the UCMJ will deal with you.

Mycroft said:

If you are a military member, it doesn't matter if you support the President or if you think he's a "dirty guy". If he gives you an order, you say "Yes, Sir." and carry it out.

If you don't, the UCMJ will deal with you.

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of course it matters. they have a vote.