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Worry rises in military over Trump's decision-making

Mycroft said:
Those "top military leaders" are free to move on if they don't like Trump's decisions and actions.

But guess what...the military won't miss them if they do.
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That's where that line about "enemies, foreign and domestic" comes into play.
 
j brown's body said:
The politicization of the military is the work of tyrants. It should be obvious that a divided military is not in our country's best interest.
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The officers who responded to these reporters are the ones politicizing the armed forces.
 
Rising Sun said:
IIRC, that was primarily among junior enlisted personnel with the senior NCOs and Officer corps much less favorable.
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The enlisted men are the backbone of the service. It's their morale that matters. Any officers who aren't happy should resign their commissions and carry their asses, if they're more willing to place politics ahead of their sworn duty.
 
j brown's body said:
They don't have a right to expect the president to respect the law?

Your suggestion that they can disagree with the president assumes that the president's words and actions express a coherent policy upon which one can disagree. That seems to be missing. Perhaps they should check with Fox News? That seems to be where Mr. Trump is getting his ideas.
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The Constitution is the law.
 
j brown's body said:
Spencer suggested that Gallagher would be allowed to keep his rank and his Trident pin so long as the president let the proceedings play out. The White House had reportedly told the Navy that its disciplinary review could go ahead without interference before Trump jettisoned the review.
It's all just a matter of one hand not knowing what the other hand is doing, resulting in the type of chaos Trump enjoys fomenting, and Spencer had to pay for it.
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In other words, Spencer admitted the disciplinary review is being rigged because he guaranteed a positive outcome for Gallagher before the review even started.

Spencer also "forgot" to inform his immediate boss - known as chain of command - about the plan to rig the disciplinary review.
 
beerftw said:
To an extent you are correct, there is the right to disagreement but not the right to act upon it. However in the military you can literally get away with telling it to high ranking officers faces, I did it quite often, it is not always what you say but how and more importantly where you say it.

Taking a superior officer into a back room and telling him what is jacked up is one thing while openly calling out his leadership undermines his authority. The proper way to object to any policy verbally is behind closed doors as to not undermine leadership, as undermining leadership and authority can cause a breakdown of leadership down the chain as well as morality and discipline.
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Too bad you weren't an adviser to Spencer. He might still have his job.
 
apdst said:
Access to this page has been denied.
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I asked if you had used "the Blaze, World Net Daily or Breitbart" as your source. You did supply another website 'supporting' the claim. When I checked the link, I read the following:
From Breitbart.com's Facebook page comes a list of at least 197 officers that have been relieved of duty by President Obama for a laundry list of reasons and sometimes with no reason given.

Another website, has a list of 9 officers fired by President Obama and it provides the reasons for each dismissal.

Did President Obama Really Purge the Military?

Let me take you back to the heady days of October, 2013. St. Louis was playing Boston in the World Series. The US had yet to be inundated with the endless winter of the Polar Vortex. And a list was making its way around conspiracy theory and ultra-conservative websites: a list of generals and admirals President Obama had "fired" as part of a massive purge of the military.

The purpose of this purge tended to vary depending on what the source of the list was. For ultra-conservative websites like World Net Daily and Breitbart, it was because the officers had dared express dissent against a President who hates America, and particularly, hates the men and women of the Armed Forces. For conspiracy-driven sites like Before It's News and Infowars, it was because Obama was on the verge of declaring martial law and these officers wouldn't participate in the killing of American citizens.
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Major General Michael Carey - alcohol
Vice Admiral Tim Giardina - cheating at poker
Lieutenant General David Holmes Huntoon, Jr. - told lower ranking officers to clean up after him
Major General C.M.M. Gurganus - "failed to take adequate force protection measures"
Major General Gregg A. Sturdevant - same cause as Gurganus
Brigadier General Bryan Roberts - adultery and beating the mistress
Major General Ralph Baker - alcohol and sexual misconduct
Rear Admiral Charles Gaouette - racism

The longer list comprises 200 names over the entire armed forces, from admirals and generals to individual ship commanders. It's full of names, but no information as to why they were removed from their posts. As such, we can only look at it as a Gish Gallop, designed to overwhelm the reader with bits of data that are devoid of context. It's also important to point out that military officers retire early, are reassigned or get removed from command all the time. It happens for numerous reasons, no matter who the president happens to be.

And if misconduct allegations are being investigated and acted upon with renewed vigor, which is clearly the case, it makes sense that lower ranking officer would feel the pinch in large numbers. Finally, the US is winding down two wars and engaged in a general drawdown of the military for budgetary reasons. So it's possible that many of these officers were offered early retirements as part of this process. Without going through all of the 200 names, which nobody has time to do, we can't know for sure.

So are these lists evidence of a conspiracy to bring fascism down on us, or evidence only of a lack of tolerance for unethical behavior among the leaders of our military? With no martial law, government takeover or coup having taken place since the list first circulated, my suspicion falls on the latter.
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Somerville said:
I asked if you had used "the Blaze, World Net Daily or Breitbart" as your source. You did supply another website 'supporting' the claim. When I checked the link, I read the following:
From Breitbart.com's Facebook page comes a list of at least 197 officers that have been relieved of duty by President Obama for a laundry list of reasons and sometimes with no reason given.

Another website, has a list of 9 officers fired by President Obama and it provides the reasons for each dismissal.



Major General Michael Carey - alcohol
Vice Admiral Tim Giardina - cheating at poker
Lieutenant General David Holmes Huntoon, Jr. - told lower ranking officers to clean up after him
Major General C.M.M. Gurganus - "failed to take adequate force protection measures"
Major General Gregg A. Sturdevant - same cause as Gurganus
Brigadier General Bryan Roberts - adultery and beating the mistress
Major General Ralph Baker - alcohol and sexual misconduct
Rear Admiral Charles Gaouette - racism
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What about all the rest? Were they cashiered for "cheatin at poker" too?...lol

"Failure to take adequate force protection measures"? Obama doesn't even know what the **** that even means. Just look at Benghazi, where he abandoned his own ambassador and his security team.
 
apdst said:
What about all the rest? Were they cashiered for "cheatin at poker" too?...lol

"Failure to take adequate force protection measures"? Obama doesn't even know what the **** that even means. Just look at Benghazi, where he abandoned his own ambassador and his security team.
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Once again - as always - you post what you believe to be true even when it isn't.

Obama was not the person who decided the two Marine generals screwed up, resulting in Marine deaths and the destruction of several fighter jets, that was a decision by a Marine hearing.

HOW did Obama "abandon" the ambassador and security team? It was the Republicans in Congress who had cut embassy security funding. The two CIA operatives were not part of the consulate security team. They were in Benghazi on a separate mission.

I don't know the reasons that "all the rest" were forced to retire. Your sources suck when reality collides with beliefs.
 
Somerville said:
Once again - as always - you post what you believe to be true even when it isn't.

Obama was not the person who decided the two Marine generals screwed up, resulting in Marine deaths and the destruction of several fighter jets, that was a decision by a Marine hearing.

HOW did Obama "abandon" the ambassador and security team? It was the Republicans in Congress who had cut embassy security funding. The two CIA operatives were not part of the consulate security team. They were in Benghazi on a separate mission.

I don't know the reasons that "all the rest" were forced to retire. Your sources suck when reality collides with beliefs.
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Obama fired 197 officers. Live with it.
 
apdst said:
Obama fired 197 officers. Live with it.
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Provide proof for your belief. If you can't, maybe you will begin to think about some of the stuff you believe to be true, when the rest of the world is saying - WOAH!!??!!

Once again - as always - you post what you believe to be true even when it isn't.

Obama was not the person who decided the two Marine generals screwed up, resulting in Marine deaths and the destruction of several fighter jets, that was a decision by a Marine hearing.

HOW did Obama "abandon" the ambassador and security team? It was the Republicans in Congress who had cut embassy security funding. The two CIA operatives were not part of the consulate security team. They were in Benghazi on a separate mission.

I don't know the reasons that "all the rest" were forced to retire. Your sources suck when reality collides with beliefs.
 
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Somerville said:
Once again - as always - you post what you believe to be true even when it isn't.

Obama was not the person who decided the two Marine generals screwed up, resulting in Marine deaths and the destruction of several fighter jets, that was a decision by a Marine hearing.

HOW did Obama "abandon" the ambassador and security team? It was the Republicans in Congress who had cut embassy security funding. The two CIA operatives were not part of the consulate security team. They were in Benghazi on a separate mission.

I don't know the reasons that "all the rest" were forced to retire. Your sources suck when reality collides with beliefs.
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You are just going to get a blank look and a repeat of the statement that was made.
 
Somerville said:
Provide proof for your belief. If you can't, maybe you will begin to think about some of the stuff you believe to be true, when the rest of the world is saying - WOAH!!??!!

Once again - as always - you post what you believe to be true even when it isn't.

Obama was not the person who decided the two Marine generals screwed up, resulting in Marine deaths and the destruction of several fighter jets, that was a decision by a Marine hearing.

HOW did Obama "abandon" the ambassador and security team? It was the Republicans in Congress who had cut embassy security funding. The two CIA operatives were not part of the consulate security team. They were in Benghazi on a separate mission.

I don't know the reasons that "all the rest" were forced to retire. Your sources suck when reality collides with beliefs.
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I already did. You're now trying to lie your eay out.
 
apdst said:
I already did. You're now trying to lie your eay out.
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A story on Breitbart is your "proof"? I'm not lying and sadly I don't think you are either - a lie has to be a deliberately false statement made by a person who actually knows the truth.
 
Somerville said:
A story on Breitbart is your "proof"? I'm not lying and sadly I don't think you are either - a lie has to be a deliberately false statement made by a person who actually knows the truth.
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You admitted those officers were fired. Stop weaseling.
 
Mycroft said:
Those "top military leaders" are free to move on if they don't like Trump's decisions and actions.

But guess what...the military won't miss them if they do.
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Have you ever found something Trump did bad/wrong?
 
apdst said:
You admitted those officers were fired. Stop weaseling.
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I provided a list of 9 flag rank officers who were pushed out owing to their violations of the military codes. I did not provide support for your claim of "Obama fired 197 officers" nor have you given the readers any backup for your assertions.
 
Somerville said:
I provided a list of 9 flag rank officers who were pushed out owing to their violations of the military codes. I did not provide support for your claim of "Obama fired 197 officers" nor have you given the readers any backup for your assertions.
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Justify however you like, but it doesn't change the fact that Obama fired 197 officers.
 
apdst said:
Justify however you like, but it doesn't change the fact that Obama fired 197 officers.
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Rather sad that you continue to post something for which you can't provide support. Do you really hate former President Barack Hussein Obama that much?
 
apdst said:
Justify however you like, but it doesn't change the fact that Obama fired 197 officers.
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Rather sad that you continue to post something for which you can't provide support. Do you really hate former President Barack Hussein Obama that much?
 
Fishking said:
1. There won't be any personal loyalty oaths. That's just paranoid ramblings demonstrating a thing grasp on reality.

2. Obama purged the military of nearly 200 top ranking officers. That's a more concerning action that what you're complaining about here.
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With regard to "Obama purged the military of nearly 200 top ranking officers", what we have left is the dregs of the corps (those still loyal to Obama). It will take us decades to rebuild the officer corps with senior officers who can reason and think rationally. The sooner Trump runs the ones Obama left, the better off we will be.
 
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