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Fiona Hill Testifies ‘Fictions’ on Ukraine Pushed by Trump Help Russia

tres borrachos said:
I'm sure the citizens of Trump Fan Nation will be fine with the next Democratic President demanding that all of the governments that receive money from us must open investigations into the entire Trump family before releasing said aid to them. Don't you?
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That would be a sad day that something like that was done. However I see your point.
 
apdst said:
How can Hill be so certain? Did she conduct an investigation?
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LOL So you also believe Putin over our own intelligence services? You are a hack for sure if not a Russian.
 
iguanaman said:
LOL So you also believe Putin over our own intelligence services? You are a hack for sure if not a Russian.
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Ive noticed that many on the left have this attitude that they are above having their opinions questioned.

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trouble13 said:
Ive noticed that many on the left have this attitude that they are above having their opinions questioned.
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Only when the basis for such questioning is some moronic crap fed to lame brain conservatives and Trump ass kissers.
 
trouble13 said:
Ive noticed that many on the left have this attitude that they are above having their opinions questioned.

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I've noticed a love for Putin on the Right that I find disgusting. Putin is our enemy as much or more than the USSR ever was. Giving aid and comfort to the enemy is treason.
 
Athanasius68 said:
The theory isn't that it's Russia OR Ukraine. It's Russia ABD Ukraine. It's based on the fact Ukraine actually apologized for its interference and there were legislatirs who said they acted as they did do to concerns of what a Trump victory would mean for Ukraine.
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Athan, see how you ignored my point that it doesn't matter if its "Ukraine not Russia" vs "Ukraine and Russia" because both are lying conservative narratives to protect your dear leader. You learned from Fiona's testimony that its not true and actually misinformation from Russia secret police.

Based on questions and statements I have heard, some of you on this committee appear to believe that Russia and its security services did not conduct a campaign against our country—and that perhaps, somehow, for some reason, Ukraine did. This is a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the Russian security services themselves.

Once again all "trump roads" lead back to Russia just like Pelosi said. Oh and before you post "wah wah Fiona" she was senior director for Europe and Russia on the National Security Council and she simply stating what the intelligence agencies say.
 
prometeus said:
Only when the basis for such questioning is some moronic crap fed to lame brain conservatives and Trump ass kissers.
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Thanks for your assiatance in making my point. To be clear, i am a moronic lame brain trump ass kisser because i dont share your view.

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Vern said:
Athan, see how you ignored my point that it doesn't matter if its "Ukraine not Russia" vs "Ukraine and Russia" because both are lying conservative narratives to protect your dear leader. You learned from Fiona's testimony that its not true and actually misinformation from Russia secret police.

Based on questions and statements I have heard, some of you on this committee appear to believe that Russia and its security services did not conduct a campaign against our country—and that perhaps, somehow, for some reason, Ukraine did. This is a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the Russian security services themselves.

Once again all "trump roads" lead back to Russia just like Pelosi said. Oh and before you post "wah wah Fiona" she was senior director for Europe and Russia on the National Security Council and she simply stating what the intelligence agencies say.
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That would be an inaccurate synopsis by Dr. Hill-- last year both the House and Senate put out reports regarding Russian interference in 2016.
 
JasperL said:
What "Ukrainian" statements? We know about less than a handful of articles. This may shock you, but it's actually legal for representatives of a country to push back on Trump's statements during the campaign about their sovereign territory. You can argue it's inappropriate, but they did this in public under their own names. That's "evidence" of Ukrainians standing up under their own names and titles for the interests of their country.

That's not "interfering" with elections. We know what that looks like and it's hacking emails, troll farms pushing out propaganda by the minute on social media, fake Facebook sites, all of it directed from Moscow, in secret with an intent to deceive, sow discord, division.

Conflating those two is just bull****, hackery. It's shameful the GOP is pushing this nonsense and you're dutifully repeating it.

BTW, you'd be fine I assume with Biden conditioning tariffs on China's Xi publicly announcing investigations into the Trump family, right? We won't know until China puts their massive intelligence network putting Trump's family under investigation, right? So that's a good thing! That's your standard here.
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Trump should not have said what he did.
However, unlike the hypothetical scenario presented involving the Trump kids, it wasn't made up

Add we know, there is presently an investigation into the origins of the Russia probe.
Information was leaked from Ukraine regarding Mr. Manafort which created much political turmoil within the Trump campaign.
The question being raised is whether they were pressured to do so. Biden's statement would indicate that it would be plausable.
It can certainly be argued that Ukranian interference when in the worst case scenario in the election was trifling compared to Russian activity and not worh wasting time over. But Trump doesnt have to agree. Thus: policy dispute.
 
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Athanasius68 said:
Trump should not have said what he did.
However, unlike the hypothetical scenario presented involving the Trump kids, it wasn't made up

Add we know, there is presently an investigation into the origins of the Russia probe.
Information was leaked from Ukraine regarding Mr. Manafort which created much political turmoil within the Trump campaign.
The question being raised is whether they were pressured to do so. Biden's statement would indicate that it would be plausable.
It can certainly be argued that Ukranian interference when in the worst case scenario in the election was trifling compared to Russian activity and not worh wasting time over. But Trump doesnt have to agree. Thus: policy dispute.
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I have no problem investigating our political leadership for crimes or malfeasance. This goes both ways. However, it’s well known throughout Europe that Ukraine had a history of corruption and that the Ukrainian prosecutor was dirty. To think Biden was the primary force there is giving Joe waaaaaaaay too much credit. If anything, he jumped on the Euro’s bandwagon and then claimed the credit when the prosecutor was forced by the Ukrainian government to resign.
 
trouble13 said:
Thanks for your assiatance in making my point. To be clear, i am a moronic lame brain trump ass kisser because i dont share your view.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
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No, people who believe demonstrably false information, even when the untruthfulness of that information is laid bare, were the ones being referred to in that fashion.

Now you're characterizing yourself as one of those people.
 
The topic line for this thread is: "Fiona Hill Testifies ‘Fictions’ on Ukraine Pushed by Trump Help Russia"

The use of 'fictions' is interesting. It implies a certain degree of uncertainty in whether the fictions are to be believed.

I submit that the topic line, using the same indices, could be written as:

Fiona Hill Testifies Fictions on Ukraine Pushed by 'Trump' Help Russia

Season's best to all.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Trump should not have said what he did.
However, unlike the hypothetical scenario presented involving the Trump kids, it wasn't made up

Add we know, there is presently an investigation into the origins of the Russia probe.
Information was leaked from Ukraine regarding Mr. Manafort which created much political turmoil within the Trump campaign.
The question being raised is whether they were pressured to do so. Biden's statement would indicate that it would be plausable.
It can certainly be argued that Ukranian interference when in the worst case scenario in the election was trifling compared to Russian activity and not worh wasting time over. But Trump doesnt have to agree. Thus: policy dispute.
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You ever heard the term "gish gallop." That's what debating you on this subject is.
 
Re: Fiona Hill Testifies ‘Fictions’ on Ukraine Pushed by Trump Help Russia

trouble13 said:
The evidence is always claimed to being overwhelming. Mueller spent 30M ooking for it and found nothing. Looks like more of the same to me

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This month long Ukraine drama for TV has done nothing but reduce the support for impeachments among the public and increased the approval rating of the President. An impeachment trial in the Senate that reveals all of the truth would likely have twice the same effect.
Used to think it was going to be impossible for Trump to win reelection. Impossible to overcome the collective efforts of the deep state, mainstream media, Hollywood etc devoted to tearing down the Presidency. Beginning to believe that maybe the electorate isn't as gullible to the propaganda as I thought.
 
Torus34 said:
The topic line for this thread is: "Fiona Hill Testifies ‘Fictions’ on Ukraine Pushed by Trump Help Russia".
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Ive asked several times with no answer yet. Can anyone quote Trump pushing these fictions.
 
Athanasius68 said:
That would be an inaccurate synopsis by Dr. Hill-- last year both the House and Senate put out reports regarding Russian interference in 2016.
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Yes, and POTUS keeps spewing out that it's Ukraine. It's a neat trick. The GOP have some idiots like POTUS advancing baseless bullcrap to rile up the rubes, and others say, "well, of course we trust the findings of our intelligence services" and both bases are covered, and whatever theory is needed to justify something that day is trotted out.

And the entire line of questioning about the 'black ledger' feeds the UKRAINE IS THE REAL GUILTY PARTY! narrative. Minority counsel advanced that line of crap when he questioned Hill about unsourced allegations that the ledger was fabricated, despite ALL THE EVIDENCE showing it was not. So he bear hugged that particular CT and advanced it in an open hearing, while you do your duty and deny it happened. We all saw it happen, some of us like me in real time. And we all know Manafort was convicted and is in jail for laundering those payments offshore and evading taxes on them.
 
dixon01767 said:
Ive asked several times with no answer yet. Can anyone quote Trump pushing these fictions.
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It's fascinating that we have Trump cultists pushing the "Ukraine did it!" or "TOO!" narrative on this very thread, and I guess you want to deny it's happening or pretend confusion where they're getting this nonsense.

The whole Crowdstrike nonsense pushed, by name, by Trump in the Z phone call is one of those "fictions" being pushed by Trump. He conditioned foreign policy in Ukraine on Ukraine investigating that fiction. The premise behind that nonsense is it was Ukraine not Russia that hacked then released emails, or something. I can't quite figure it out. They were supposed to be for Hillary but somehow also hacked her campaign, stole the emails and released them. Or maybe they rigged the hacking to make it look like Russia stole them, then released them to frame Russia. It doesn't matter to the right wing. It's just a shiny object that never did have to make any sense to rational people.
 
JasperL said:
It's fascinating that we have Trump cultists pushing the "Ukraine did it!" or "TOO!" narrative on this very thread, and I guess you want to deny it's happening or pretend confusion where they're getting this nonsense.
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That's because it is another fact, you continue to deny. DNC thru the Ukrainian embassy solicited from the Ukrainian government information on Trump and his campaign and received dirt on Manafort who had just joined the Trump campaign and a Ukrainian source was a foundation of the Steele dossier.

JasperL said:
The whole Crowdstrike nonsense pushed, by name, by Trump in the Z phone call is one of those "fictions" being pushed by Trump.
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Another fact you want to deny. The legendary DNC server that was hacked, has only been possessed by Crowdstrike, hired by the DNC. Because the DNC didn't want to turn the server over to the FBI,CIA, or the Muellar investigations into the hacking of the server. If the server continues to exists, they likely have it. If they gave it back to the DNC, Im sure they've taken the Hillary hammer to it.

JasperL said:
He conditioned foreign policy in Ukraine on Ukraine investigating that fiction. The premise behind that nonsense is it was Ukraine not Russia that hacked then released emails, or something. I can't quite figure it out. They were supposed to be for Hillary but somehow also hacked her campaign, stole the emails and released them. Or maybe they rigged the hacking to make it look like Russia stole them, then released them to frame Russia. It doesn't matter to the right wing. It's just a shiny object that never did have to make any sense to rational people.
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Notice how you never got around to simply providing the quote of Trump I was asking for. I make it easier, can ANYONE provide quotes of ANYONE proposing the theory that Ukraine did what Russia is accused of doing while Russia is innocent. Fiona is full of **** slaying a strawman.
 
dixon01767 said:
That's because it is another fact, you continue to deny. DNC thru the Ukrainian embassy solicited from the Ukrainian government information on Trump and his campaign and received dirt on Manafort who had just joined the Trump campaign and a Ukrainian source was a foundation of the Steele dossier.
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That's all false, but it sounds bad if it wasn't a lie. You know who Chalupa is, right? She was the driver of that and she's an American, not Ukrainian, not part of the government, and you can't point to any 'dirt' the Ukrainian embassy provided to her. The black ledger was released right out in the open by a Ukrainian investigative journalist. Boo hooo it implicated crook Manafort now in jail for his crimes.

Another fact you want to deny. The legendary DNC server that was hacked, has only been possessed by Crowdstrike, hired by the DNC. Because the DNC didn't want to turn the server over to the FBI,CIA, or the Muellar investigations into the hacking of the server. If the server continues to exists, they likely have it. If they gave it back to the DNC, Im sure they've taken the Hillary hammer to it.
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You know who else hired Crowdstrike? The...GOP! And there is no "server." There are dozens of them, perhaps as many as 140 of them. It's a good marker of people who don't understand the issue, like Trump. And what everyone got and analyzed were mirrors of "the server" which is...the same as "the server."

And, again, what's the story. Pro-Hillary Ukrainians hacked her emails, released it through Wikileaks for maximum damage to Hillary, so Trump could get elected and they'd use the fake hacking and election interference to smear Trump by falsely pinning it on the Russians? It's insane.

Notice how you never got around to simply providing the quote of Trump I was asking for. I make it easier, can ANYONE provide quotes of ANYONE proposing the theory that Ukraine did what Russia is accused of doing while Russia is innocent. Fiona is full of **** slaying a strawman.
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Trump: "I would like to have the attorney general call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance — but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it's very important that you do it if that's possible."
 
JasperL said:
That's all false, but it sounds bad if it wasn't a lie. You know who Chalupa is, right? She was the driver of that and she's an American, not Ukrainian, not part of the government,
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No one claimed she was. Try to resist the allure of the strawman

JasperL said:
and you can't point to any 'dirt' the Ukrainian embassy provided to her.
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The embassy in the US didn't provide it, that came from the government back in Ukraine


JasperL said:
The black ledger was released right out in the open by a Ukrainian investigative journalist.
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Provided by the Ukrainian government who had sat on it for 3 years.
 
trouble13 said:
Thanks for your assiatance in making my point. To be clear, i am a moronic lame brain trump ass kisser because i dont share your view.
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You have that mostly right, except it is not my view but reality that you can not recognize.
 
JasperL said:
It's fascinating that we have Trump cultists pushing the "Ukraine did it!" or "TOO!" narrative on this very thread, and I guess you want to deny it's happening or pretend confusion where they're getting this nonsense.

The whole Crowdstrike nonsense pushed, by name, by Trump in the Z phone call is one of those "fictions" being pushed by Trump. He conditioned foreign policy in Ukraine on Ukraine investigating that fiction. The premise behind that nonsense is it was Ukraine not Russia that hacked then released emails, or something. I can't quite figure it out. They were supposed to be for Hillary but somehow also hacked her campaign, stole the emails and released them. Or maybe they rigged the hacking to make it look like Russia stole them, then released them to frame Russia. It doesn't matter to the right wing. It's just a shiny object that never did have to make any sense to rational people.
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If you listen to Assange.....the Russians did not hack DNC emails...upset Bernie supporter inside DNC Seth Rich according to hints from Assange.

Crowdstrike was used to throw blame on Russia because head of Crowdstrike was anti Russian Putin and DNC needed scapegoat.

Durham will confirm or deny soon enough.
 
dixon01767 said:
No one claimed she was. Try to resist the allure of the strawman
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LOL, I think Nunes had a quota - mention Chalupa twice each impeachment hearing. I'm not sure he achieved it but it was often, and it's the Ukrainians in D.C. who alleged worked with Chalupa. Did you not listen or watch any of the open hearings?

The embassy in the US didn't provide it, that came from the government back in Ukraine
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What did "the government" provide?

Provided by the Ukrainian government who had sat on it for 3 years.
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In the same way the "U.S. government" allegedly worked with indicted criminals Parnas and Fruman to dig up dirt on Biden, including a meeting in Austria in Dec. 2018, when it's only Devin Nunes who has been alleged to have done that.

In this case it was long time activist, and investigative journalist who was a low level member of parliament - Serhiy Leshchenko.

But even this narrative assumes it was somehow improper to release evidence of Manafort's criminal activity. It's not as I see it, especially by Ukraine as Manafort was a right hand to a corrupt thug who was overthrown and chased to Russia.
 
Trump said:
If you listen to Assange.....the Russians did not hack DNC emails...upset Bernie supporter inside DNC Seth Rich according to hints from Assange.

Crowdstrike was used to throw blame on Russia because head of Crowdstrike was anti Russian Putin and DNC needed scapegoat.

Durham will confirm or deny soon enough.
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I do not care what Assange SAYS. If he wants to claim it wasn't Russians, tell us who it was, a name, not some BS CT involving Seth Rich that his own parents BEG lying hacks to quit spreading.

FWIW, every denial I've seen from Assange is at best a non-denial denial. It can have been hacked by Russians, Assange know this, and his denials still technically true. Here's one example from the friendliest of outfits:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...s-no-russian-involvement-in-wikileaks-emails/

Host Sean Hannity: “Can you say to the American people unequivocally that you did not get this information about the DNC, John Podesta’s emails — can you tell the American people 1,000 percent you did not get it from Russia . . . “

Julian Assange: “Yes.”

Hannity: “. . . or anybody associated with Russia?”

Assange: [NO...] “We — we can say and we have said repeatedly . . . “

Hannity: “Right.”

Assange: “. . . over the last two months, that our source is not the Russian government and it is not a state party.”

— exchange on “Hannity” on Fox News, Jan. 3, 2017
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What does that even mean? Someone in the government hacking the server, then handing the emails to a private contractor or other party linked to and a shill of Putin/Russian, who sent it to Assange would meet that test.

When Hannity uses the term, "or anybody associated with Russia" Assange declines that characterization, which also fits the above scenario and many others in which Putin or his minions in the private sector paid by him through the government or paid by oligarchs doing his bidding hacked the server and used a cutout to forward the data. All he's saying is the sender, the "source," was not to his knowledge in the GRU or something. Says nothing.
 
Trump said:
If you listen to Assange.....the Russians did not hack DNC emails...upset Bernie supporter inside DNC Seth Rich according to hints from Assange.

Crowdstrike was used to throw blame on Russia because head of Crowdstrike was anti Russian Putin and DNC needed scapegoat.

Durham will confirm or deny soon enough.
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They will never get their hands on the server to ever know for certain. Seems odd that something of such national security importance we have to rely upon a private company paid for by the DNC to provide the only evidence of who hacked the server. Only thing Im aware of ever being made public is that they used certain hacking tools used repeatedly in the past by two cyber groups believed to be tied to the Russian government. Tools involving software installed on target computers that make those tools available to anyone who has such target computers. Making those tools commonly available to others to use elsewhere. It would be too easy for anyone to use these Russian tools, creating the impression that it was Russia.
 
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