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Scalise: Trump pardons will improve military morale

Barnacle said:
I highly recommend you read the letter Lorance's lawyers sent to Esper a few days before Trump granted clemency.

Those 9 soldiers were most likely the ones who opened fire on order of Lt. Lorance ... and in return the Army was going to charge them with murder. (Good grief, what an upside-down world we live in.)

"... Lorance’s attorneys wrote in their letter to Esper that nine members of the platoon Lorance had assumed command over just days before the July 2012 patrol were threatened with murder charges, and granted immunity in exchange for their testimony against the young officer. ..."

Clint Lorance’s lawyers implore Pentagon to not label their client a ‘bad apple’ in talks with President Trump
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JasperL said:
Well, in one case, NINE of the soldiers who witnessed the events testified against the guy, NONE testified in his defense. So you're just calling those nine soldiers liars. So why do you think of those who witnessed the shooting all of them were liars except the accused?
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Jasper, it looks like those soldiers were looking out for their own asses.
 
JasperL said:
They recognize the pay grade, not the rank.

And the entire thing reads consistent with opposition to the order. Yes, President has that authority, and we are doing as ordered. The end. There's not a hint they support the order, because they don't, but followed it. The Navy people responding recognized the implied insult in the Tweet - said referring to a 'chief' by his pay grade is a clear insult.
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Rank and pay grade are literally the same thing...lol
 
apdst said:
Jasper, it looks like those soldiers were looking out for their own asses.
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Right, those nine combat veterans who'd served in the area for months are all liars, and the only one telling the truth is the accused. Suit yourself. He's pardoned, but I don't buy the defense.
 
JasperL said:
Right, those nine combat veterans who'd served in the area for months are all liars, and the only one telling the truth is the accused. Suit yourself. He's pardoned, but I don't buy the defense.
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They were escaping a murder charge.

I bet you don't even know the facts of the case. All you know, is that an Army officer was charged with murder. You're all in, at that point.
 
OrphanSlug said:
Not surprising... Scalise heading to Trump's defense with a pardon that even the Pentagon was against.

Agreed with the article, all this does is invalidate the military justice system and make us look worse on the international stage.

"Great and unmatched wisdom" in action.
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I fully understand the new progressive Democratic Party furiously and desperately wants to eliminate the US Constitution and Bill of Rights to replace it with a fascist military police state and a communist economic system.

If anyone wonders why Germans didn't stop the Nazi party in the mid 1930s they only have to look at the new American Fascist party after richest corporations and individuals on earth bought out the entire MSM, press and took control of the Internet - then proceeding to overthrew and replace the liberal American Democratic Party with their own corporate-fascist political party.
 
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apdst said:
Jasper, it looks like those soldiers were looking out for their own asses.
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Because they all committed war crimes, yes.
 
apdst said:
They defended themselves from a perceived threat. Armchair general much?
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I'm really not interested in debating someone who thinks war crimes are always acceptable.
 
Deuce said:
I'm really not interested in debating someone who thinks war crimes are always acceptable.
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I never said they are. Stop lying.
 
apdst said:
I never said they are. Stop lying.
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You used the South Park "it's comin right for us" defense, so yeah, that's the effect of your belief.
 
Deuce said:
You used the South Park "it's comin right for us" defense, so yeah, that's the effect of your belief.
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Those soldiers perceived a threat and they reacted. That isn't a war crime.

But, it's easy for you to judge, when it isn't your life on the line. Right?
 
apdst said:
Those soldiers perceived a threat and they reacted. That isn't a war crime.

But, it's easy for you to judge, when it isn't your life on the line. Right?
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I don't believe being scared absolves you of every act of murder.
 
apdst said:
Easy to say it isn't your life on the line.
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It's also easy to say if you're not a monster who thinks it's ok to murder a child because you're scared.
 
Deuce said:
It's also easy to say if you're not a monster who thinks it's ok to murder a child because you're scared.
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Especially, when your life isn't in any danger.
 
apdst said:
They thought so. Since you weren't there, you're in no place to say they were wrong.
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Yeah, so anyone who claims they felt they were in danger has moral justification for killing literally anyone, at any time, and since the dead can't testify then there's no crime.

This is all easy for you to say when it's not your child being murdered.
 
apdst said:
The president is the commander in chief. He has the authority to overrule the generals. Presidents have been doing it since George Washington.
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Washington was no blowhard boor like Trump, going around mocking his generals as knowing less than he did. Washington led his generals, Trump pisses on them. If as president, Washington ever overruled one of his generals, it was rare if not unique. For all you know, which is very little or that you can prove, he may never have done so.
 
bluesmoke said:
Washington was no blowhard boor like Trump, going around mocking his generals as knowing less than he did. Washington led his generals, Trump pisses on them. If as president, Washington ever overruled on of his generals, it was rare if not unique. For all you know, which is very little or you can prove, he may never have done so.
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Obama overruled his generals. How does that make you feel?
 
Deuce said:
Much better than a criminal pardoning murderers.
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Oh, so it's ok when Obama overrules the generals and gives a deserter a hero's homecoming? :lamo
 
OrphanSlug said:
Not surprising... Scalise heading to Trump's defense with a pardon that even the Pentagon was against.

Agreed with the article, all this does is invalidate the military justice system and make us look worse on the international stage.

"Great and unmatched wisdom" in action.
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Agreed. I'm retired military in a family of career military officers/pilots and Trump's PR action does exactly that: invalidates the military justice system and not only makes the US look worse on the international stage but will result in more endangerment of our troops because foreigners will know they cannot trust US justice for family or friends wrongly killed by US troops.
 
apdst said:
Oh, so it's ok when Obama overrules the generals and gives a deserter a hero's homecoming? :lamo
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That freeing Bergdahl was good, although I think we made a bad deal for it. Treating him like a hero was stupid considering the circumstances. Notice that Obama didn't interfere in the military justice system like Trump did.
 
Rising Sun said:
That freeing Bergdahl was good, although I think we made a bad deal for it. Treating him like a hero was stupid considering the circumstances. Notice that Obama didn't interfere in the military justice system like Trump did.
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It would be illegal for Obama to interfere. Trump didn't interfere in any courts martial.
 
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