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Staffer who overheard Trump call with Sondland gives "damning" testimony

Re: Staffer who overheard Trump call with Sondland gives damning testimony

ecofarm said:
The person is claiming to have directly heard both the Ambassador and the President. No one told them anything, except the Ambassador and the President.

This is the same with all the witnesses. People on the call and transcripts of the call. There can be no doubt what happened.

Nonetheless, yes, a restaurant employee and a staffer saying they heard something is weak evidence. And probably true, given all the other known facts.
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These are official transcripts, right? Taken by professional stenographers while listening in on the call? Their credentials and, of course, notarized when the importance became clear is all available for our perusal?

My point is not that I think the guy is innocent of much of anything, but that I think this was a poorly planned approach and that the evidence so far has been sub-par
 
Re: Staffer who overheard Trump call with Sondland gives damning testimony

ecofarm said:
When someone heard the person in question say it, it's not hearsay.

A couple of restaurant employees say they heard something? That's weak evidence, you're correct. But he's guilty as ****.
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As I mention above... he heard it.... thats fine.. Its what he interpreted or WHAT others are interpreting it now.


Let me try..

1) In the Zelensky Phone call transcrip it is KNOW there is NO denying it. Trump did in fact as for "a favor" He brought up a couple of parts.
1a) 2016 elections,Corwdstrike, Server, Prosecutor, Biden, Ambassador. These are 6 distinct conversations. It was NOT specific to just Biden. More so Biden was an after thought (my opinion)

2) He hearing Trump ask if they will do the investigation. Does NOT slam dunk that it is the "Biden investigation" again if AG Barr reached out and asked for cooperation This changes the narrative of the Investigation NO?

3) I am still wrapping my head around "I can hear his voice" in a restaurant not on speaker phone. In fairness I have sat across in business meeting in a quite restaurant NOT on a Terrace (outdoors) and I can hear squat from a phone... This sounds way to convenient. BUT my point is still "investigation" is still to broad and not direct evidence or incriminating.


4) Final point. What if Trumps relationship is that good and Zelensky is WILLING to do investigations with NO links or attachments. What if He found it concerning and wanted to look into not at just the behest of Trump does that make trump still guilty for asking? I mean the biggest effort is to show that Trump pushed. But if you are 2 consenting parties how does it make it illegal.

5) This again then changes from quid pro quo, to bribery/extortion to finally using your office for political gain.... which again would be hard, more so what IF corruption is found LOL? ...... what if? So Trump gets impeached for rooting out corruption how does that work?
 
Re: Staffer who overheard Trump call with Sondland gives damning testimony

It's immaterial, but I want to know how the EU ambassador gets on the phone with the president. Does he just call him directly? On what line? Assuming Sondland was having lunch around noon in Ukraine, that would be 5:00 A.M. in DC. So the president of the United Stated is personally coordinating a foreign investigation against a former VP who's running against him with a donor buddy who has no diplomatic experience and doesn't usually have anything to do with Ukraine in the first place at 5:00 in the morning.

This is so past the line. Everything about Trump is corrupt to its very core. If he wasn't the president he would already be in prison. This madness has to end.
 
Re: Staffer who overheard Trump call with Sondland gives damning testimony

Exactice said:
As I mention above... he heard it.... thats fine.. Its what he interpreted or WHAT others are interpreting it now.


Let me try..

1) In the Zelensky Phone call transcrip it is KNOW there is NO denying it. Trump did in fact as for "a favor" He brought up a couple of parts.
1a) 2016 elections,Corwdstrike, Server, Prosecutor, Biden, Ambassador. These are 6 distinct conversations. It was NOT specific to just Biden. More so Biden was an after thought (my opinion)

2) He hearing Trump ask if they will do the investigation. Does NOT slam dunk that it is the "Biden investigation" again if AG Barr reached out and asked for cooperation This changes the narrative of the Investigation NO?

3) I am still wrapping my head around "I can hear his voice" in a restaurant not on speaker phone. In fairness I have sat across in business meeting in a quite restaurant NOT on a Terrace (outdoors) and I can hear squat from a phone... This sounds way to convenient. BUT my point is still "investigation" is still to broad and not direct evidence or incriminating.


4) Final point. What if Trumps relationship is that good and Zelensky is WILLING to do investigations with NO links or attachments. What if He found it concerning and wanted to look into not at just the behest of Trump does that make trump still guilty for asking? I mean the biggest effort is to show that Trump pushed. But if you are 2 consenting parties how does it make it illegal.

5) This again then changes from quid pro quo, to bribery/extortion to finally using your office for political gain.... which again would be hard, more so what IF corruption is found LOL? ...... what if? So Trump gets impeached for rooting out corruption how does that work?
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There is no "what if" that explains Trump going rogue.
 
Re: Staffer who overheard Trump call with Sondland gives damning testimony

Hatuey said:
The craziest bit of this whole story is that the president and those immediately around him did this, knowing they'd been accused of colluding with other governments to influence our elections before.

Only crackheads know they're going to get caught and still commit crimes.





Sent from the Matrioshka in the WH Christmas tree.
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And Perry skates away. One of his main political backers landed a 50 year oil/gas contract in Ukraine
 
Re: Staffer who overheard Trump call with Sondland gives damning testimony

ecofarm said:
There is no "what if" that explains Trump going rogue.
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I know I know... I added it in.... ... But really is that that only part you want to respond to? I tried to give a lot prior substance to debate?


Hearing Investigation means NOTHING, here investigation into the bidens means everything. we hear what we want to hear and apply where we want it to go.... proves nothing more that investigations were sought, it COULD be the Biden's but it COULD be Anti-Corruption intended investigations.
 
Re: Staffer who overheard Trump call with Sondland gives damning testimony

Rogue Valley said:
Another Embassy staffer at the restaurant with Sondland was named yesterday, a female that also overheard Trump & Sondland chatting about "the investigation".

And how dumb is a US Ambassador that calls the US president on his cell phone from a restaurant in Kyiv?

Geezus lol.
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No one in the cult cares nor will care whatever is exposed.
 
Re: Staffer who overheard Trump call with Sondland gives damning testimony

Exactice said:
I know I know... I added it in.... ... But really is that that only part you want to respond to? I tried to give a lot prior substance to debate?


Hearing Investigation means NOTHING, here investigation into the bidens means everything. we hear what we want to hear and apply where we want it to go.... proves nothing more that investigations were sought, it COULD be the Biden's but it COULD be Anti-Corruption intended investigations.
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The investigation took place before Hunter was hired and was not for giving cushy jobs to politician's kids. It's a ridiculous request. That's why no one except Trump is making it. That's why he had to go rogue.

And he required the investigation be announced. Why?
 
Re: Staffer who overheard Trump call with Sondland gives damning testimony

Keridan said:
These are official transcripts, right? Taken by professional stenographers while listening in on the call? Their credentials and, of course, notarized when the importance became clear is all available for our perusal?

My point is not that I think the guy is innocent of much of anything, but that I think this was a poorly planned approach and that the evidence so far has been sub-par
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There isn't any doubt that Trump asked Ukraine to investigate Biden.

Without going any further than that, how does anyone think that's appropriate? Because politics is dirty? Because a sitting president can do whatever he wants?

Any way you slice the bread, this is a rotten loaf. Even Republicans should be calling this what it is by now. If they refuse to vote for impeachment/removal for political reasons, so be it, but they should at least be honest and admit that none of this is normal and none of this is ok.
 
Re: Staffer who overheard Trump call with Sondland gives damning testimony

Nalu said:
It's immaterial, but I want to know how the EU ambassador gets on the phone with the president. Does he just call him directly? On what line? Assuming Sondland was having lunch around noon in Ukraine, that would be 5:00 A.M. in DC. So the president of the United Stated is personally coordinating a foreign investigation against a former VP who's running against him with a donor buddy who has no diplomatic experience and doesn't usually have anything to do with Ukraine in the first place at 5:00 in the morning.

This is so past the line. Everything about Trump is corrupt to its very core. If he wasn't the president he would already be in prison. This madness has to end.
Click to expand...

Ah to be alive in 40 or 50 years just to see what a crook he is, damage to the US, NATO, alliances.

And the prick will never serve a day in jail
 
Re: Staffer who overheard Trump call with Sondland gives damning testimony

PoliSciXtina said:
No. He overheard trump saying it. Same thing as if he were on the other line of the phone call. Except he was in person and heard trump ask about the investigations. That would be a firsthand account as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Not so. To use a common phrase these days "Read the transcript."
 
Re: Staffer who overheard Trump call with Sondland gives damning testimony

Exactice said:
As I mention above... he heard it.... thats fine.. Its what he interpreted or WHAT others are interpreting it now.


Let me try..

1) In the Zelensky Phone call transcrip it is KNOW there is NO denying it.
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...and...you fail.

Is that the only call between Trump and Zelensky? Almost certainly not, but I can't blame you for getting so excited about finding a phone call where Trump didn't say or do something idiotic or illegal. It's like a miracle.
 
Re: Staffer who overheard Trump call with Sondland gives damning testimony

JANFU said:
And Perry skates away. One of his main political backers landed a 50 year oil/gas contract in Ukraine
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That dude is running scared.



Sent from the Matrioshka in the WH Christmas tree.
 
Re: Staffer who overheard Trump call with Sondland gives damning testimony

Hatuey said:
That dude is running scared.



Sent from the Matrioshka in the WH Christmas tree.
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Yes but IMHO he will skate

After this Congress will be trying to pass bills etc.

And it is an election year
 
Re: Staffer who overheard Trump call with Sondland gives damning testimony

Fletch said:
We already have a transcript of Trump asking Z for help with these investigation
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And Zelensky responded saying that the next prosecutor general will be his hand picked guy. Unfortunately, that didn't go too over well in Ukraine because the people there want a special commission pick the prosecutors, not politicians. Ukraine's prosecutors were at the heart of most of the corruption in Ukraine. So Zelensky was very upset that Trump released his half of the conversation.
 
JANFU said:
Staffer who overheard Trump call with Sondland gives "damning" testimony - CBS News



Linkage to Trump and can his supporters say quid pro quo

After yesterdays testimony Sondland will now revise his testimony for the 3rd time

Oh yes there were a few others present.

I am sure Holmes, perfect name for this, will be testifying in the next 2 weeks
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I am guessing Sondland will be sitting with his lawyers this weekend or wind up in jail for perjury with all of the other "President's men"
 
Re: Staffer who overheard Trump call with Sondland gives damning testimony

ecofarm said:
The investigation took place before Hunter was hired and was not for giving cushy jobs to politicians kids.
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LOL! Bahh.... am I really that confusing?

1) Trump wanted investigations including looking into the Bidens (per the transcript call) Its there not hard to find
2) Has NOTHING to do with the PRIOR investigation that was dropped into Burisma when the OWNER was being heavily investigated
3) The intent from my understanding of Holmes's testimony is to insight that Trump wanted a new investigation into the Biden's to Solidify the accusation that Trump used Aid to push his personal political gain



OK So again... Holmes stating he over heard what he heard does NOT solidify the investigation has anything to do with BIDEN, NOR solidify that it is part of a Bribery or Extortion. If Zelensky obliged with ZERO pressure, extortion or bribery he did it on his own accord.... can you prove that the action was criminal or interned for "Trumps" personal political gain?
 
Re: Staffer who overheard Trump call with Sondland gives damning testimony

JANFU said:
Ah to be alive in 40 or 50 years just to see what a crook he is, damage to the US, NATO, alliances.

And the prick will never serve a day in jail
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If I'm lucky, I'll still be alive in 40 or 50 years. I can only imagine how history will view Trump, but I can't imagine it will be kindly. I'm just hoping beyond hope right now that I'll be able to talk about a blip in American society and presidential history and not the beginning of a permanent shift.

As for jail time, I have a feeling that SDNY in particular wants to nail Trump's ass to a 2x4. Most New Yorkers don't like Trump and he has set back their reputation at least a generation. He's cheated the city and state his entire life and then tried to flee to Florida. If SDNY (and/or other jurisdictions) go hard enough, I think Trump could die in a prison cell like he deserves.
 
Re: Staffer who overheard Trump call with Sondland gives damning testimony

Cardinal said:
What I learned from Trump supporters today: I can yell "I'm gonna blow up a post office!" and nobody can testify against me because quoting me is hearsay.

But seriously, though...how do trump supporters manage to stay out of jail?
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Well if they are going to take the latest trump defense, it's because they are too stupid to do crime intentionally.
 
Credence said:
I am guessing Sondland will be sitting with his lawyers this weekend or wind up in jail for perjury with all of the other "President's men"
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Yes and nice play
 
Re: Staffer who overheard Trump call with Sondland gives damning testimony

Exactice said:
LOL! Bahh.... am I really that confusing?

1) Trump wanted investigations including looking into the Bidens (per the transcript call) Its there not hard to find
2) Has NOTHING to do with the PRIOR investigation that was dropped into Burisma when the OWNER was being heavily investigated
3) The intent from my understanding of Holmes's testimony is to insight that Trump wanted a new investigation into the Biden's to Solidify the accusation that Trump used Aid to push his personal political gain



OK So again... Holmes stating he over heard what he heard does NOT solidify the investigation has anything to do with BIDEN, NOR solidify that it is part of a Bribery or Extortion. If Zelensky obliged with ZERO pressure, extortion or bribery he did it on his own accord.... can you prove that the action was criminal or interned for "Trumps" personal political gain?
Click to expand...


And only Trump knows this. And he can't tell anyone else. So he's gotta sell the US military so that justice can be announced (in his favor).

I see. He's Superman and had to do completely disgusting unethical things in order to save us all from something that only he knew about. Our hero.

What kind of a sap falls for that? I wouldn't have thought an American.
 
Re: Staffer who overheard Trump call with Sondland gives damning testimony

Mithros said:
I guess it just shows you how poorly some people evaluate risks.

Everyone who deals with Trump ends up losing.. Everyone. (well, not Putin...yet). There's a trail of wreckage that follows Trump him everywhere he goes. Contractors don't get paid. Lawyers go to jail. Investors get stiffed. Regular people get scammed. The GOP lost the house, suburbs and any remaining shred of integrity. When this is all said and done, maybe Trump ends up doing fine. Maybe gets reelected. He's remarkably talented in that regard. But regardless there's going to be a pile of bodies left in his wake. Why anyone would willingly deal with him is beyond me.
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Like Rick Wilson says 'ETTD" Everything Trump Touches Dies
 
Credence said:
I am guessing Sondland will be sitting with his lawyers this weekend or wind up in jail for perjury with all of the other "President's men"
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Trump and his goons have done such a thorough job of making Congress look impotent that I'm sort of glad to see all of this happen. People think they can ignore Congress and lie to Congress with no repercussions. Sondland's had to revise his testimony 3 times to stay out of jail. I bet the rest of the witnesses will be less likely to lie.
 
Re: Staffer who overheard Trump call with Sondland gives damning testimony

Nalu said:
If I'm lucky, I'll still be alive in 40 or 50 years. I can only imagine how history will view Trump, but I can't imagine it will be kindly. I'm just hoping beyond hope right now that I'll be able to talk about a blip in American society and presidential history and not the beginning of a permanent shift.

As for jail time, I have a feeling that SDNY in particular wants to nail Trump's ass to a 2x4. Most New Yorkers don't like Trump and he has set back their reputation at least a generation. He's cheated the city and state his entire life and then tried to flee to Florida. If SDNY (and/or other jurisdictions) go hard enough, I think Trump could die in a prison cell like he deserves.
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I along with many others knew SDNY cases were coming. All for election time

Link demonstrates he is also wrecking the Military justice system, leadership and rule of law

Trump Clears Three Service Members in War Crimes Cases - The New York Times
 
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