• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Budget Gap Widens 34% to $134.5 Billion From Year Ago

JasperL said:
Trump ran on it, and here we are running $trillion deficits at full employment, stock market is hitting records. You can't blame that on Democrats.
Click to expand...

All spending is determined by congress, so yes you can
 
RetiredUSN said:
We were in a recession when the last president added another 9 trillion to the debt.

Just saying....

Nobody wins.
Click to expand...

Actually we werent. The recession ended in June of 2009. All of Obamas deficits took place after that date.
 
Fletch said:
Actually we werent. The recession ended in June of 2009. All of Obamas deficits took place after that date.
Click to expand...

True ...true

But were still in a vulnerable place with investors and businesses shutting their wallets.
 
RetiredUSN said:
True ...true

But were still in a vulnerable place with investors and businesses shutting their wallets.
Click to expand...

Yep, revenues were still tumbling, jobs were still taking a hit in June 2009. Later in Obama's terms the deficit actually lessened year after year.

My point is we can expect deficits during, and even for awhile after a recession. But we shouldn't be having trillion $ deficits now. Deficit is actually rising now.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Yep, revenues were still tumbling, jobs were still taking a hit in June 2009. Later in Obama's terms the deficit actually lessened year after year.

My point is we can expect deficits during, and even for awhile after a recession. But we shouldn't be having trillion $ deficits now. Deficit is actually rising now.
Click to expand...

No argument here.

But I don't see any end to this cycle until all of America agrees to suffer a little pain. Raising taxes on corporations, investors, and small businesses will not be the end all cure as many on here like to say.

8.7 % of the budget is a lot of money to just hand away every year.
 
Fletch said:
All spending is determined by congress, so yes you can
Click to expand...

Nope, both parties seek to increase federal power and expense. Note how the republicants backed off of their plan to repeal PPACA and then decided to (try to) replace it. One of the major reasons for that flip flop (evolving position?) was the Medicaid expansion portion of PPACA which gave (35 of) the states $9 for every $1 that they spent on it. Turning down that "free" money was just too hard to accept.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Nope, both parties seek to increase federal power and expense. Note how the republicants backed off of their plan to repeal PPACA and then decided to (try to) replace it. One of the major reasons for that flip flop (evolving position?) was the Medicaid expansion portion of PPACA which gave (35 of) the states $9 for every $1 that they spent on it. Turning down that "free" money was just too hard to accept.
Click to expand...

I realize that. When republicans controlled congress the deficit rose. Now that the dems control congress, the deficit is still rising. Blaming the president, as the liberals in this thread are doing, is simply factually incorrect. Democrats control the House. What did they do to reduce spending? Nothing. In fact, they passed a bill to increase spending, and thus the deficit, by $300 billion.
 
RetiredUSN said:
No argument here.

But I don't see any end to this cycle until all of America agrees to suffer a little pain. Raising taxes on corporations, investors, and small businesses will not be the end all cure as many on here like to say.

8.7 % of the budget is a lot of money to just hand away every year.
Click to expand...

Additional taxes on corporations and other businesses are just passed on to the consumers in the form of higher prices for the goods/services provided. That form of taxation then becomes regressive and inflationary rather than progressive - a better idea is increasing the upper income bracket rates on personal income. It's also time to start taxing long term capital gains as ordinary income (after adjusting the gain for inflation).
 
Fletch said:
I realize that. When republicans controlled congress the deficit rose. Now that the dems control congress, the deficit is still rising. Blaming the president, as the liberals in this thread are doing, is simply factually incorrect. Democrats control the House. What did they do to reduce spending? Nothing. In fact, they passed a bill to increase spending, and thus the deficit, by $300 billion.
Click to expand...

All of Obamas deficits
Click to expand...

So you and others can no only blame Obama for the deficits during his 8 years pf being Prez BUT you still blame him.. But we can' blame Trump?

Doesn't sound fair.
 
Fletch said:
All spending is determined by congress, so yes you can
Click to expand...

I know, that VETO stamp is extremely heavy for Trump to just send it back to the congress(LOL)
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Additional taxes on corporations and other businesses are just passed on to the consumers in the form of higher prices for the goods/services provided. That form of taxation then becomes regressive and inflationary rather than progressive - a better idea is increasing the upper income bracket rates on personal income. It's also time to start taxing long term capital gains as ordinary income (after adjusting the gain for inflation).
Click to expand...

a better idea is increasing the upper income bracket rates on personal income.
Click to expand...

I can see you're not a wealthy "Libertarian"(LOL)
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Additional taxes on corporations and other businesses are just passed on to the consumers in the form of higher prices for the goods/services provided. That form of taxation then becomes regressive and inflationary rather than progressive - a better idea is increasing the upper income bracket rates on personal income. It's also time to start taxing long term capital gains as ordinary income (after adjusting the gain for inflation).
Click to expand...

1. I propose that we shut down all these on going military adventures overseas...... including most of our bases. Let Europe handle their own messes.

Why We Should Close America'''s Overseas Military Bases | Time

2. Shut down redundant federal agencies.

Government often has 10 agencies doing one job

3. Some debt is healthy.
 
Fletch said:
I realize that. When republicans controlled congress the deficit rose. Now that the dems control congress, the deficit is still rising. Blaming the president, as the liberals in this thread are doing, is simply factually incorrect. Democrats control the House. What did they do to reduce spending? Nothing. In fact, they passed a bill to increase spending, and thus the deficit, by $300 billion.
Click to expand...

As long as borrow and spend (more) gets congress critters re-elected at a rate of over 90% then there is absolutely no reason to expect anything different from them. Spending more is politically popular while taxing more is not - it's just that simple.

Not only has federal spending been increased, but federal income tax rates have been reduced. We are now at the point where even a 100% cut in non-defense, federal discretionary spending would still leave a "budget" deficit. The federal government simply can't keep spending at about 20% of GDP while taxing at about 17% of GDP - growing the GDP simply does not fix that situation.
 
Last edited:
SenorXm/Sirius said:
So you and others can no only blame Obama for the deficits during his 8 years pf being Prez BUT you still blame him.. But we can' blame Trump?

Doesn't sound fair.
Click to expand...

Alright, thats fair. Deficits do get assigned to the sitting president whether they deserve them or not. The deficits of today will be assigned to Trump just as the Obama years deficits will be assigned to Obama. Somehow congress gets a pass when they should not
 
ttwtt78640 said:
As long as borrow and spend (more) gets congress critters re-elected at a rate of over 90% then there is absolutely no reason to expect anything different from them. Spending more is politically popular while taxing more is not - it's just that simple.

Not only has federal spending been increased, but federal tax income tax rates have been reduced. We are now at the point where even a 100% cut in non-defense, federal discretionary spending would still leave a "budget" deficit. The federal government simply can't keep spending at about 20% of GDP while taxing at about 17% of GDP - growing the GDP simply does not fix that situation.
Click to expand...

I dont disagree with any of that. I disagree with the premise of this thread.
 
Fletch said:
I dont disagree with any of that. I disagree with the premise of this thread.
Click to expand...

Why?

Especially because you're libertarian?
 
Luther said:
I know, that VETO stamp is extremely heavy for Trump to just send it back to the congress(LOL)
Click to expand...

This spending bill originated with the new democrat House majority. Good of you to give them a pass on increasing the debt.
 
Fletch said:
This spending bill originated with the new democrat House majority. Good of you to give them a pass on increasing the debt.
Click to expand...

But... who or what is the last line of defense?
 
Luther said:
I can see you're not a wealthy "Libertarian"(LOL)
Click to expand...

True, but I am a logical Libertarian. We have a capitalist, consumer based economy. Taxing those (more) who would otherwise consume their income hurts the economy while taxing those (more) who would not change their consumption at all does not. If one's disposable annual income drops from $100K to $70K then that likely reduces their personal consumption by (at least) $20K, while dropping one's annual income from $500K to $300K likely has little (if any) effect on their personal consumption.
 
RetiredUSN said:
1. I propose that we shut down all these on going military adventures overseas...... including most of our bases. Let Europe handle their own messes.

Why We Should Close America'''s Overseas Military Bases | Time

2. Shut down redundant federal agencies.

Government often has 10 agencies doing one job

3. Some debt is healthy.
Click to expand...

In normal economic times, debt is "healthy" if it is used to increase infrastructure and "unhealthy" if it is used simply to increase (or sustain) current consumption. If I borrow in order to get more tools/equipment (increasing my productivity/income) then that makes economic sense, yet if I borrow simply to take a longer vacation, add a hot tub to my house or drive a nicer looking truck then that makes far less economic sense.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
True, but I am a logical Libertarian. We have a capitalist, consumer based economy. Taxing those (more) who would otherwise consume their income hurts the economy while taxing those (more) who would not change their consumption at all does not. If one's disposable annual income drops from $100K to $70K then that likely reduces their personal consumption by (at least) $20K, while dropping one's annual income from $500K to $300K likely has little (if any) effect on their personal consumption.
Click to expand...

True, but I am a logical Libertarian.
Click to expand...

Oh........(LOL)

That's a first for me(LOL)
 
1) Raise taxes and remove most deductables. Remove capital gains tax. Stop lying about how taxed Amerixans are when most people dont pay anywhere near the on paper tax %.

2) Either fully force open the healthcare industry by law and if needed breaking up of companies, or nationalise the whole thing and start over. It is private healthcare and military spending that is causing the biggest problems.

3) Massive cuts in military spending. Dump the new aircraft carriers as they are useless in the 21st century, especially with the limited range of the F35.. Oh and dump the F35 as well. Cut bases world wide and operations. And no, not in Korea. Europe sure but that will cost American lives if wounded dont have Germany to goto.

There is plenty that can be done but no one has the balls to do it.

Sent from my Honor 8X
 
Fletch said:
All spending is determined by congress, so yes you can
Click to expand...

Oh, yeah, and who was in charge for the past two years? Who jammed through $2 trillion in the tax cuts adding about $200-250 billion to deficits in the early years using reconciliation and didn't include a single spending cut in that bill that passed with NO Democratic votes? Oh, right, the GOP. Who signed it? A Republican president. You know POTUS can veto the bill and demand cuts, shut down government if he wants. But he didn't. And of course it's the Democrats' fault....

Of course now that the Democrats are in charge, any future deficits, and past deficits, will be blamed on the Democrats because that's always the lie the GOP tells us. The buck never stops on their desk.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom