Budget Gap Widens 34% to $134.5 Billion From Year Ago

Drawdown said:

Deficits don't matter as long as we can still move bonds. With much of the world in negative interest, we can still move bonds.

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Republican talking point when a republican is in the White House. When a dem is in the white house, all the sudden deficits matter A LOT and cons break out their tri-cornered caps and start marching in the streets and chant how they are going to "tbag the White House."

SenorXm/Sirius said:

I didn't get a dime more in my pockets. We know damn well who that tax break mostly benefited, and why. The Republicans NEVER had any intention of making spending cuts, and lowering the deficit. Isn't Trump and the GOP pushing for a $200 BILLION pentagon increase?

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then complain to your local government and state government about their outrageous taxes.
I paid way less in taxes. i am happy.

again you didn't address what i said.

It is not my job to fund a government that has a spending problem. it is the government job to be fiscally responsible.
in fact i do believe it is a constitutional requirement that the government be fiscally responsible.

the fact that they are not is not my issue and i have no duty to fund their irresponsibility.
the fact is i don't care who is in charge. you might point fingers but i blame both people.

the fact still remains that the president has little control over the budget other than outlining his budget plans.
this is in the constitution.

Ikari said:

Deficits only matter when Democrats are in office.

lol

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If people here want to be honest the quote would be: Deficits only matter when the other party (fill in the blank) is in office.

Ikari said:

Deficits only matter when Democrats are in office.

lol

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Not at all deficits are always a problem for me anyway. it means that our government is not being responsible with the money
that we send it. it means that the government is way way out of control and it needs to cut back.

American said:

No one (especially Democrats) should be on this thread; all guilty. So stop your bull**** spread. Liberals are the worst spenders in history. At least Republicans get something necessary for the money, unlike Democrats who just give it away.

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I always warn that before you make assertions about numbers, you look at the numbers.

Here is spending, adjusted for inflation, in each presidential administration since Reagan. Which party is the big spender? Before I hear, "it's not the president but the Democrats in Congress," remember that Republicans held the House from 1994 to Jan 2007 -- a time when real spending rose by 50% (mainly after 2000.)



The same chart as a p% of GDP.

Drawdown said:

Much of the Obama deficits were due to a continuation of policies started in the Bush twilight months. Other than the fed letting quantitative easing go on way, way too long creating this liquidity trap variant we are in, the Obama economy was more trying to catch traction on a snowy hill.

The stagnant GDP growth in the face of trillion dollar deficits is probably a by-product of the same liquidity trap. With a divided government, the fed putting bonds into negative rates will probably be the only thing that can kick start growth if that is what you want to do. I personally am fine with low to no economic growth because in a consumption economy, every digit of real growth is more and more pollution and ecological degradation.

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Actually, most of the early Obama deficits were due to lower government revenue, which happens when we have a severe recession with 10% unemployment. Notice 2009 - 2012, below.

The worst thing about the national debt is that no one cares on either side. Trump clearly doesn't care. And how many times were candidates asked about deficits in the last Dem debate? None.

MTAtech said:

I always warn that before you make assertions about numbers, you look at the numbers.

Here is spending, adjusted for inflation, in each presidential administration since Reagan. Which party is the big spender? Before I hear, "it's not the president but the Democrats in Congress," remember that Republicans held the House from 1994 to Jan 2007 -- a time when real spending rose by 50% (mainly after 2000.)

The same chart as a p% of GDP.

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Much of this is the result of baseline "budgeting" where every federal program, agency and department is given more each year as a matter of routine with more being added to deal with "emergencies" such as endless wars, economic maladies and natural disasters.

Baseline budgeting is an accounting method the United States Federal Government uses to develop a budget for future years. Baseline budgeting uses current spending levels as the "baseline" for establishing future funding requirements and assumes future budgets will equal the current budget times the inflation rate times the population growth rate.

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Baseline (budgeting) - Wikipedia

Conservative dogma in relation to government spending was a reaction to the New Deal. The New Deal was akin to communism to the founders of modern conservatism. As the New Society embraced relief for minorities as well as the favored poor whites of the New Deal, opposition to government assistance grew to the point where modern conservatives could sell fiscal responsibility as a way of mixing racial politics with grievance politics. It was not that Reagan spent too much money, it was that he stuck it to the liberals and minorities that made fiscal conservatism so appealing to the average white voter. The Tea Party was never about spending it was about the continuation of white rage in an era of changing demographics. None of my Tea Party friends could look at the budget and tell us which program should be cut to balance the budget. Sure they talked about foreign aid or some surfer on welfare eating lobsters but those instances were simply cannon fodder created by right wing media to enrage their viewers. Ask any conservative over 65 if they want Medicare gutted. Ask them if we should cut the military. Ask them if we should tax more to offset expenses. Ask them if we should cut Medicaid to their poor family members in Tennessee who survive on it every week. You will get the same reply, no. But ask them if inner city people (black people) should find a job. Ask them if American children born to immigrants should be kicked out of SNAP or public schools. Ask them if the EPA should be abolished. You will get emphatic affirmations courtesy of their right wing media Gods.

eman623 said:

The worst thing about the national debt is that no one cares on either side. Trump clearly doesn't care. And how many times were candidates asked about deficits in the last Dem debate? None.

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I tried to explain above that the size of the deficit isn't really that important. What is far more important is what you do with the money borrowed. There is a big difference between borrowing money at low interest rates and using it to improve the efficiency of the nation's infrastructure and borrowing money so you can give rich people tax cuts.

ttwtt78640 said:

Much of this is the result of baseline "budgeting" where every federal program, agency and department is given more each year as a matter of routine with more being added to deal with "emergencies" such as endless wars, economic maladies and natural disasters.

baseline budgeting is an accounting method the United States Federal Government uses to develop a budget for future years. Baseline budgeting uses current spending levels as the "baseline" for establishing future funding requirements and assumes future budgets will equal the current budget times the inflation rate times the population growth rate.

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Baseline (budgeting) - Wikipedia

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I have often posted that the vast amount of federal spending is in the big five: Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Defense and interest on the debt. Of those, the only one subject to baseline budgeting is Defense. SSA, Medicare and Medicaid chiefly fluctuate on demographics -- the change in the age of the population (Medicaid spends a large amount on senior nursing homes).

MTAtech said:

I always warn that before you make assertions about numbers, you look at the numbers.

Here is spending, adjusted for inflation, in each presidential administration since Reagan. Which party is the big spender? Before I hear, "it's not the president but the Democrats in Congress," remember that Republicans held the House from 1994 to Jan 2007 -- a time when real spending rose by 50% (mainly after 2000.)

The same chart as a p% of GDP.

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The problem with you is you started in 1980, instead of 30 years before that. I wonder why? Anyway, I have actually criticized Republican spending, who have you criticized? And before you trot out the Clinton budget; I'll tell you right now that Kasich (former governor of Ohio) gets all the credit for that, not Bill Clinton.

MTAtech said:

I tried to explain above that the size of the deficit isn't really that important. What is far more important is what you do with the money borrowed. There is a big difference between borrowing money at low interest rates and using it to improve the efficiency of the nation's infrastructure and borrowing money so you can give rich people tax cuts.

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Nowadays we are increasingly borrowing money to cover entitlement spending promises made decades ago. Yes, we collected trillions over the last 30 years but there was no lockbox. That money was just spent. Now the bills are coming due and it and debt servicing then interest rates eventually rise will crowd out pretty much everything else.

MTAtech said:

I have often posted that the vast amount of federal spending is in the big five: Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Defense and interest on the debt. Of those, the only one subject to baseline budgeting is Defense. SSA, Medicare and Medicaid chiefly fluctuate on demographics -- the change in the age of the population (Medicaid spends a large amount on senior nursing homes).

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That (bolded above) is certainly true yet, with the exception of Medicare, they are not funded by general revenue. The problem with SS and Medicare is that their revenue (largely from FICA payroll taxes) is not keeping pace with their spending - mostly due to having fewer workers per retiree and retirees are living longer.

SenorXm/Sirius said:

Again, GOP had Congress and WH for 2 years, during a good economy and made the deficit and debt worse.

What have the Republicans done about it when they controlled ALL of the government? The tax cuts haven't 'boasted' the economy enough to lessen the deficit. so obviously that was the wrong path to take.

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Again, Democrats have the House NOW. What have they done? Well just like Republicans in Congress and Trump, they have INCREASED SPENDING. And done zip about wasteful mandatory spending.

swing_voter said:

Well, now we get to see if the tax cuts improved the economy enough so that new business will generate enough income to reduce the deficit.

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Impossible when spending increases outpace revenue growth.

Total Receipts: Up by 4 Percent in Fiscal Year 2019
Total Outlays: Up by About 8 Percent in Fiscal Year 2019

Had they simply not increased spending by 8 percent, the deficit would have gone down by 500bn.

American said:

The problem with you is you started in 1980, instead of 30 years before that. I wonder why?

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lol

He used readily available charts. News flash! Federal spending didn't start in 1980.

Sorry, this can't be true because Donald told us all he was uniquely qualified to balance the budget and no one else could do it as well as him. Of course he also said he would build a wall and Mexico would pay for it.

ttwtt78640 said:

That (bolded above) is certainly true yet, with the exception of Medicare, they are not funded by general revenue. The problem with SS and Medicare is that their revenue (largely from FICA payroll taxes) is not keeping pace with their spending - mostly due to having fewer workers per retiree and retirees are living longer.

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This is absolutely true ans something I really doubt Trump knew or understood as he made his claims. I also firmly believe he had no one on his team that understood the scope of the issue either and guide him through the issues with spending. This just once again reminds us how unqualified he and his team were to be president.

itstony said:

This is absolutely true ans something I really doubt Trump knew or understood as he made his claims. I also firmly believe he had no one on his team that understood the scope of the issue either and guide him through the issues with spending. This just once again reminds us how unqualified he and his team were to be president.

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It is not up to the POTUS (see constitution) to enact spending bills (sometimes called budgets). The POTUS has two choices: sign those congressional "budget" bills into law or veto them. It has been decades since the FICA payroll tax rates have been increased. So long as we keep having more retirees (each living for more years) and medical care cost growth exceeding payroll growth then this (amazing?) decline in the FICA payroll tax's ability to cover SS and Medicare spending will continue to get worse.

ttwtt78640 said:

It is not up to the POTUS (see constitution) to enact spending bills (sometimes called budgets). The POTUS has two choices: sign those congressional "budget" bills into law or veto them. It has been decades since the FICA payroll tax rates have been increased. So long as we keep having more retirees (each living for more years) and medical care cost growth exceeding payroll growth then this (amazing?) decline in the FICA payroll tax's ability to cover SS and Medicare spending will continue to get worse.

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Budget? What budget?

Moon said:

Budget? What budget?

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That is why I generally place budget in quotes when referencing congressional spending bills. The federal debt "ceiling" has effectively become the federal debt "floor" since it is now increased as a matter of routine to allow for more congressional borrowing. So long as borrow and spend allows congress critters to be re-elected at a rate of over 90% there is no reason to expect that "budget" bill feature to be changed - more federal spending is politically popular while more federal taxation is not.

ataraxia said:

It's not even that "code". Here is Lee Atwater, Chief Republican Party strategist and advisor to Ronald Reagan, in an interview in 1981:

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They should have figured out over all the 100's of years trying to devastate blacks.. Black people will continue to advance and at no time could any of the vile destroy the Spiritual Relation Black People have for the values of God's Principles. Economic damage is something blacks understand very well, its been seen throughout life in America, and still Black people find means to make it and continue advancing. The poor whites on the other hand, still are blind to understanding it, even after centuries and decades of devastations that has kept them poor and disenfranchised... because the same thing that such types like Goldwater, Nixon and Reagan and now Trump is trying to promote... will continue to hurt poor and working poor whites, and black people will still continue the steps to advancements.
It is poor whites mostly of the Right Wing Republican ideology, who don't take advantage of Governmental funding for training programs. They think its only for blacks, when fact is... when LBJ put many in place it was to address the poor whites but was not to be denied to blacks. Poor whites chose not to make use of it, but blacks saw ever need and benefit of making use of it, so these "training programs" are highly utilized by blacks, and many of these programs train for jobs that 'can't be outsourced to foreign countries".. So today, you see more blacks in programs from nursing, to every type of skill training that is available. Poor "Right Wing" whites are sitting back with an ego elation as if they are so above going to these programs, and time continues to find them chasing the past and stuck in yesterday's delusions, listening to folklore form old bigots and old racist from an era that is of the past. The well to do and wealthy whites, are chasing down any kind of training they can get.. and now with the exposure of them "buying their way to University to obtain a paid for "get a job certificate" (diploma)..., Society is finding out a great many are not only not qualified and do not have the knowledge base or skill sets for these high paying jobs...

Times will change, and they won't get to run more and more companies in the ground and destroy more communities and lives... by trying to desperately cling to the groomed in concepts that they should have "wealth" even if they have to get it by the most vile and criminal of means, and it does not matter what they destroy to get it.

Now... business has to change and the corporate structure can no longer afford these "Paid For Degree Babies" - Global competition does not care that these kids were taught to chase wealthy by any means, and thinking themselves entitled to high pay.
Technology changed the dynamics... they understand that a university degree is no necessary for every type of job, so they don't buy into the game that was set in place to try and require degree for basic and simply process and administrative jobs. That crap was a Reagan Agenda Game plan, of making university un-affordable to the poor, and then placing degree requirement for simply jobs that the average 11th grade high school student can do.

People are wiser now more than ever in the history of mankind, and they are very wise in this day and time of the evils of Republican Agenda

The Chinese have already shown, and continue to show... that they work by "diligently focused efforts", and they think things through to grow and develop and invest in their society for the people, because they learned during their closed door years, the UN-replaceable value of people. They now can do what they want, and if they want they can play the same games that the white nationalist tried over many decades to play on them. The difference is, China has uplifted more people economically than the whole population of America, and the more stronger they become economically, they can purchase what they produce, and need lesser and lesser reliance on Americans to purchase what they produce. They don't flood to America for vacation, they now know of all the more improved places that don't have the type of bias and racist ignorance that is sprinkled across America.

The days of the vile created by the likes of Goldwater Agenda, Wallace's Racism and Reagan's war on Race and Economics and his disregard for poor whites, is evident to many people and the vile of Trump is making people even more aware. Now.. people know what and how and why American has suffered the damages it has suffered since the days of Nixon.....and the Republican Evils that continue to damage society, people, government and now under the imbecile Trump, damage to international relations and damages to the standards of law.

While they fight against returning Community Colleges and State Universities back to being low cost to some only requiring a registration fee and student services fees, Let them keep expecting their Uncle Joe, is going to let them work in his radiator shop, or be a waitress in a diner that no one visits anymore.

Many of those who relied such types of white cousin and family friends labor jobs, find out more and more that over the years, all they got was hard labor and the delusions of being among others who had money, as their claim to fame, and age and time... finds them unable to work, and outcast because they can not longer make the well to do man any money.
Many lived within and upon that system over many decades, only to find out in old age, they have no pension and never earned enough to save, for trying to live some "white media image of materialism, desperate to be accepted by well to do whites", and time and age, find many with broken down bodies, junk piled up around the house and the hour run down.. and they are angry because they fought against the expansion of Medicare, so now they find it hard to get medical care.

When they get aged and broken down and find out they lived on nothing but Credit Debt and fictional self created delusion based on their skin and material things, .. all that old folksy Bs, of "yea' I worked with that ole boy, he owned the shop" ...while fact is; that ole boy hardly remember who this old broken down geezer is. This is what the product of historical racism has produced all across America. They delude themselves in old age with folklore and confabulations, because they can't bear to face the fact their racism made them a fool their entire lives.
Racism has never done anything but make the "wealthy more wealth".... at the expense of damages to society and the lives of people.

Some of these of Racist Geezer's should go back and read what they ignored when it was spoken and all they had to do was listen. "MLK's Speech at Selma" - they might have learned something back then, and if they're not too incapable of reading or absorbed in racist anguish, they might learn something today, if they can muster the mental focus to read.

By now, in this 21st Century they should have come to the awareness that their racist aggression and anguish will not uplift their lives.... they only delude themselves to think skin will make them what they have not invested in character development to become.

Ignorance has a magnetic forces to attract unto itself all that supports and cleaves unto Ignorance.

American said:

The problem with you is you started in 1980, instead of 30 years before that. I wonder why? Anyway, I have actually criticized Republican spending, who have you criticized? And before you trot out the Clinton budget; I'll tell you right now that Kasich (former governor of Ohio) gets all the credit for that, not Bill Clinton.

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Why? Because Medicare and Medicaid didn't exist yet.