[W:216, 238]Emails show White House advisor Stephen Miller promoting white nationalism to Breitbart

Re: Emails show White House advisor Stephen Miller promoting white nationalism to Breitbart

justabubba said:

Notice how you were persuaded of that article’s authenticity?
That

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LOL might wanna try again in English....but you are right, being persuaded one way or the other about the article's authenticity is exactly the same as journalism.

Oborosen said:

The amount of intense stretching this kind of article needed to be even remotely connected to actual white-nationalism, is probably something to be recorded as legend.

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not to anyone who actually read it

Re: Emails show White House advisor Stephen Miller promoting white nationalism to Breitbart

sjmay said:

LOL might wanna try again in English....but you are right, being persuaded one way or the other about the article's authenticity is exactly the same as journalism.

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is actually the same as "persuasion"

Re: Emails show White House advisor Stephen Miller promoting white nationalism to Breitbart

justabubba said:

is actually the same as "persuasion"

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Well since you are talking in riddles,

It's amusing that you find persuasion and authenticity the same....one can have an absolutely persuasive argument, be torpedoed because they aren't authentic. But you keep on believing everything that you are biased to believe.

Re: Emails show White House advisor Stephen Miller promoting white nationalism to Breitbart

SouthernDemocrat said:

You know for years I was a member of St. Andrews Episcopal Church here in Kansas City. As a percentage of the church's revenue, it was easily the most charitable parish in the city supporting a school and clinic in Haiti, a school and clinic on a reservation in ND, various local antipoverty programs and so on. The church does an amazing amount of good work both in the community and abroad. They do all that, and they don't lobby against same sex marriage. They don't lobby against anti-discrimination laws for the LGBT community. They don't try to convert gays and lesbians. They don't do any of those things, yet they manage to do incredible amount of good work, and of course teach scripture and worship God.

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So do the people that you label bigots. imagine that.

My point is that there are Christians and Christian organizations all over the world that do a lot of good work while also not lobbying to treat gays and lesbians as second class citizens. Focus on the Family is not called a hate group because it's Christian or has some charities it supports. It is called a hate group because it has a long history expending a lot of money and energy towards treating gays and lesbians at best as second class citizens in this country, and at worst as an abomination.

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Your opinion. not believing in gay marriage does not make one a hate group.
that is a cool thing about opinions you are allowed to have them and other people get to disagree.

Re: Emails show White House advisor Stephen Miller promoting white nationalism to Breitbart

sjmay said:

Well since you are talking in riddles,

It's amusing that you find persuasion and authenticity the same....one can have an absolutely persuasive argument, be torpedoed because they aren't authentic. But you keep on believing everything that you are biased to believe.

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the point is you were persuaded of the authenticity of said article. you acknowledged that to be true

as an aside, no riddles included; assume when i post that the reader is adept at the english language. i am not writing for those whose grasp of english is less than that of their first language

Re: Emails show White House advisor Stephen Miller promoting white nationalism to Breitbart

ludin said:

So do the people that you label bigots. imagine that.



Your opinion. not believing in gay marriage does not make one a hate group.
that is a cool thing about opinions you are allowed to have them and other people get to disagree.

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You realize there is a huge difference between a church refusing to recognize a same sex marriage, and a church actively campaigning against the state recognizing same sex marriage. Surely you can see the difference.

Re: Emails show White House advisor Stephen Miller promoting white nationalism to Breitbart

SouthernDemocrat said:

You realize there is a huge difference between a church refusing to recognize a same sex marriage, and a church actively campaigning against the state recognizing same sex marriage. Surely you can see the difference.

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Absolutely, why do you root that behaviour in hate?

Re: Emails show White House advisor Stephen Miller promoting white nationalism to Breitbart

sjmay said:

Absolutely, why do you root that behaviour in hate?

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A church that refuses to recognize same sex marriage on the basis of scripture is basing their actions on how they interpret their religious texts.

That is in stark difference to a church that not only refuses to recognize same sex marriage, they want the government to not recognize them either. That is bigotry and discrimination no matter how you slice it.

Re: Emails show White House advisor Stephen Miller promoting white nationalism to Breitbart

SouthernDemocrat said:

A church that refuses to recognize same sex marriage on the basis of scripture is basing their actions on how they interpret their religious texts.

That is in stark difference to a church that not only refuses to recognize same sex marriage, they want the government to not recognize them either. That is bigotry and discrimination no matter how you slice it.

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Ok, so you are saying that a church who doesn't act on their belief is not bigoted or discriminatory, but a church who does is?

sjmay said:

Not all, but it does seem like we are pretending SLPC is involved in journalism...

Tell you what, you show me where he recommended Camp of Saints as a REALLY GOOD READ...and then, you might have something....

I'll wait here for you.

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Uh-oh, someone hasn't read the links....

SPLC is not involved in journalism, it is involved in exposing and combating bigotry. In the transcripts of Miller's email, we clearly see him promoting the book's ideology. besides, nobody outside those circles had even read that book till people like he and Bannon came to the fore.

While working for Sessions, Miller highlighted “The Camp of the Saints” to Breitbart in an email Sept. 6, 2015, writing to Katie McHugh, an editor at the website at the time:

“… you see the Pope saying west must, in effect, get rid of borders. Someone should point out the parallels to Camp of the Saints.”

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That's a recommendation and a support of the ideology within the book. Nobody should ever 'point out' the parallels in this context because the book is utter trash.

Everything else we've seen of Miller has shown him to be a bigot so far. And if he recommended that book as anything other than an objective study of hate mongering, he's a f***ing creep. Watch this space.

W_Heisenberg said:

WASHINGTON – Stephen Miller, a senior White House policy adviser, pushed white-nationalist material to staffers at Breitbart, a right-wing conservative website, through 2015 and leading up to the 2016 election, according to a report published by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

The report released by the SPLC is the first installment in a series. More than 900 emails between Miller and Breitbart were examined by SPLC’s Hatewatch and revealed “more than 80 percent” of the emails “relate to or appear on threads relating to the subjects of race or immigration.”

Emails show White House Advisor Stephen Miller tauting white nationalism
Stephen Miller emailed Breitbart 900+ times from 2015-2016 to lay out his anti-immigrant policies. His source material included:
-White nationalist websites
-A “white genocide”-themed novel
-Eugenics-era laws that Adolf Hitler lauded in “Mein Kampf.”

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These groups advocate an anti-American, anti-constitutional, anti-democracy and anti-social agenda. Wouldn't support from a representative of the POTUS be considered high crimes and misdemeanors?

Oborosen said:

So a hopped up opinion piece is all you could produce. One that doesn't even explain anything as a white-supremacist stance, and just calls them as such.

Then again, I asked you to supply something and you had to post an article that can't even supply it's own evidence. So I really shouldn't be surprised in all of this.

Let's try this again, what has he said, or done that is a white-supremacist stance?

Because as of now, all the things listed in the article are being called as such, without addressing how they line up as such.

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You know, I switched screens to get some more stuff (Miller's article for the Duke Chronicle, for example, wherein he claimed that racism doesn't exist and called it "racial paranoia") but then realized that that would be a complete waste of time. You're going to ignore whatever's given to you just like you're ignoring the already obvious and undeniable fact that Miller is a racist.

If you want to pretend that discarding your nonwhite friends because of their race isn't racist, that's on you. If you want to pretend that sharing racist rants from VDARE, AmRen, and Infowars and pushing "Camp of the Saints" isn't racist, that's on you. Saying that, "people of color are a danger to our country and should not be allowed in." Writing the racist underpinnings of certain Trump speeches, including the war in Warsaw. Masterminding the travel ban and the Southern border policy. Promoting Hitler era immigration policies. All racist.

I know, I know. That's just me talking and doesn't prove anything. The problem with racism deniers and excusers, though, is that they pretend, via use of coded language they invented to be acceptably, subtly racist, is that either nothing is racist to them or anti-white racism is just as big a problem as racism against nonwhites. They won't even agree that blackface is racist and will spend pages on internet boards defending it and thereafter still want to be taken as a serious person.

Just for reference, this is what's on the Washington Examiner's opinion page today:

A*damning email dump*from former Breitbart editor Katie McHugh points to Miller simply being a racist who hates immigrants. . . .

We can't say with certainty what hate is or isn't in Miller's heart, but we know that he was happy enough to use the work of hatemongers and kill the GOP's last shot at immigration reform, apparently because it would help predominantly Mexican immigrants. It's long past time for Trump to dump Miller.

It's high time for Trump to dump Stephen Miller

uptower said:

Uh-oh, someone hasn't read the links....

SPLC is not involved in journalism, it is involved in exposing and combating bigotry. In the transcripts of Miller's email, we clearly see him promoting the book's ideology. besides, nobody outside those circles had even read that book till people like he and Bannon came to the fore.



That's a recommendation and a support of the ideology within the book. Nobody should ever 'point out' the parallels in this context because the book is utter trash.

Everything else we've seen of Miller has shown him to be a bigot so far. And if he recommended that book as anything other than an objective study of hate mongering, he's a f***ing creep. Watch this space.

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You are out of your ever flipping tree if you think that that sentence construes WHAT Miller thinks of that book, more than anything, it actually says more about what he thinks about the Pope saying about the west getting rid of borders, than the book itself...

But I get it, that's you being biased and influenced by people that agree with you, and not able to formulate an independent thought.

Nalu said:

They won't even agree that blackface is racist and will spend pages on internet boards defending it and thereafter still want to be taken as a serious person.

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Just curious....is the majority of Canada racist now?

Re: Emails show White House advisor Stephen Miller promoting white nationalism to Breitbart

sjmay said:

Ok, so you are saying that a church who doesn't act on their belief is not bigoted or discriminatory, but a church who does is?

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A church acting on its belief would be a church that may not recognize a marriage between two people that for whatever reason, it has religious objections to.

I church acting in a bigoted or discriminatory manner goes a step further by not only refusing the recognize that marriage in the church, but also lobbying government to prevent that government from legally recognizing that marriage. Moreover, in the case of Focus on the Family, not only did they expend a large amount of money and resources in an effort to ban government recognition of same sex marriages, they also expended a large amount of money and resources in an effort to prevent gays and lesbians from benefiting from any anti-discrimination legal protections. Which is exactly why they were called a hate group.

What is the difference between a religious organization that lobbies against government recognition of same sex marriage and a religious organization that lobbies against government recognition of interracial marriage?

Oborosen said:

I have such an assumption, because I ran into enough of this with people trying to claim a multitude of other people as either being racist, or white-supremacist.

Here's a news flash, just because you make a claim about someone. That doesn't make the claim true. Because one would need t prove something is actually such a stance.

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I imagine I have run into an equal number of people like you. As satisfied as you are by thinking that we haven't proven our point because you dismiss every example we give as "not racist" and as frustrated as you might be that we don't offer audio of a racist saying the n-word every time we call out a racist, that doesn't mean that our subject isn't racist. It's true enough that racism is a matter of perception. You're not going to accept any of Miller's racist deeds as racist. I'm not going to pretend that many of Miller's deeds aren't racist, even if some of them aren't overtly so. (But let's be honest. The Breitbart emails are overt. Even conservatives are jumping ship while you're hunkering down.) That's why this particular dialogue always comes to an impasse. Now, you'll sit there and think that you've vanquished another hysterical liberal, but in reality, I've given you what you asked for. We just don't agree that it's conclusive and there is no way to reconcile that difference. It happens.

Re: Emails show White House advisor Stephen Miller promoting white nationalism to Breitbart

SouthernDemocrat said:

A church acting on its belief would be a church that may not recognize a marriage between two people that for whatever reason, it has religious objections to.

I church acting in a bigoted or discriminatory manner goes a step further by not only refusing the recognize that marriage in the church, but also lobbying government to prevent that government from legally recognizing that marriage. Moreover, in the case of Focus on the Family, not only did they expend a large amount of money and resources in an effort to ban government recognition of same sex marriages, they also expended a large amount of money and resources in an effort to prevent gays and lesbians from benefiting from any anti-discrimination legal protections. Which is exactly why they were called a hate group.

What is the difference between a religious organization that lobbies against government recognition of same sex marriage and a religious organization that lobbies against government recognition of interracial marriage?

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None, but you are the one assigning hate to their motivations, why can't it be simply be acting upon their belief, standing up for what they believe in?

The only thing I remember about Focus on the Family is passing it's headquarters out in CA however many decades ago...they may very well be a hate group, I don't know enough about them to say one way or the other, but, I'm not willing to say they are a hate group because they advocate what they believe in...if there are OTHER instances that you can point out and say, this is why, then sure....

Re: Emails show White House advisor Stephen Miller promoting white nationalism to Breitbart

sjmay said:

None, but you are the one assigning hate to their motivations, why can't it be simply be acting upon their belief, standing up for what they believe in?

The only thing I remember about Focus on the Family is passing it's headquarters out in CA however many decades ago...they may very well be a hate group, I don't know enough about them to say one way or the other, but, I'm not willing to say they are a hate group because they advocate what they believe in...if there are OTHER instances that you can point out and say, this is why, then sure....

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So since the Klan advocates for what it believes in, its not a hate group?

Re: Emails show White House advisor Stephen Miller promoting white nationalism to Breitbart

SouthernDemocrat said:

So since the Klan advocates for what it believes in, its not a hate group?

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Completely skipped over the relevant part didn't ya there pal,

The Klan has OTHER instances that you can point out that they are a hate group, don't they?

sjmay said:

more than anything, it actually says more about what he thinks about the Pope saying about the west getting rid of borders, than the book itself...

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Which sounds just as bad.

But I get it, that's you being biased and influenced by people that agree with you, and not able to formulate an independent thought.

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You are not invited to comment on my thought processes or character. We're discussing Miller, not each other.

uptower said:

Which sounds just as bad.



You are not invited to comment on my thought processes or character. We're discussing Miller, not each other.

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Since you lack in both, you are probably right.....

Sounds just as bad? Got it, so you believe the Pope was right? That the West, must get rid of borders?

Oborosen said:

You know what, here. I'll play the same game that everyone else in this idiotic camp plays.

Salon - Media Bias/Fact Check



Aside from using all the loaded language, and actually supplying nothing but allegation. I don't really know what else you expected from posting such a blatant hit piece as anything other than a trumped up lie.

Hell, the damn thing marks actions that the mans hand access to as racist actions. When they had absolutely nothing to do with race.

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Yeah, I know Salon has a bias. Take a breath. I didn't offer that writer's opinion as proof of Miller's racism. Just like I did with Fox's write up of Sanders's immigration plan in another thread, I expected you to discern through the bias of the tone and extract the pertinent facts and events. For example, this writer thinks that Miller's high school comments about janitors were racist. I think they could have just as easily been classist. Encouraging an influential news outlet to promote overtly racist propaganda is, however, racist any way you slice it.

I have to say that I'm a little disappointed that you're determined to attack my source rather than address my substance. Since I had a feeling that you might, I also gave you a piece by the Washington Examiner. It more or less says the same thing that the Salon editorial does but comes from a source that is as far right as Salon is left.

Washington Examiner - Media Bias/Fact Check

All that said, though, it's all, to some extent, a matter of opinion and perception. I addressed that stalemate in an earlier post.

Re: Emails show White House advisor Stephen Miller promoting white nationalism to Breitbart

sjmay said:

Completely skipped over the relevant part didn't ya there pal,

The Klan has OTHER instances that you can point out that they are a hate group, don't they?

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Focus on the Family was designated a hate group because it expended a huge amount of money and resources in fighting against the government recognition of same sex marriage, has expended a large amount of money and resources in fighting against discrimination protections for gays and lesbians, and puts a lot of money into gay conversion programs, has fought against gays and lesbians being able to adopt and so on.

10 Things You Should Know About Focus On The Family | Human Rights Campaign

Now, let's say you were gay or lesbian. If an organization was putting significant resources into legally preventing you from marrying who you want to marry, putting significant resources into banning your ability to adopt, and putting significant resources into preventing you from having legal discrimination protects - despite you being a member of a group that has historically been a big target of hate crimes and discrimination, would you view that organization as a hate group? I think you probably would and rightly so.

As a married heterosexual man with a family, I think we often can take for granted the legal freedoms and protections that we have that were until recently not extended to same sex couples.

Re: Emails show White House advisor Stephen Miller promoting white nationalism to Breitbart

sjmay said:

why can't it be simply be acting upon their belief, standing up for what they believe in?

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because when taken on aggregate the things they say and do paint a clear picture of discrimination. This is the case with some lobby groups, it is the case with Miller. An objective reading of these recently revealed emails demonstrates his bigotry; a glance at what he's said and done in the past strengthens the case against him.

We might cherry pick and say this one excerpt or that alone doesn't 'prove' anything, but when all lumped together, it's not pretty.