Watergate redux? Trump impeachment inquiry heads for live TV

[Nalu]

Watergate redux? Trump impeachment inquiry heads for live TV

"“If you’re expecting revelation as opposed to confirmation, you’re going to be disappointed,” Jamieson said. “It’s going to seem anticlimactic unless something new is discovered.” . . .

"Mark Meckler, an early leader in the tea party movement, predicts a lot of Americans won’t even watch the broadcasts because they’ve already reached conclusions.

"Many Trump supporters won’t tune in “because they think it’s a sham process,” he said. “And I don’t think most people on the left will watch because they already know the conclusion in their minds. To them, the president has been impeachable since before he was elected.”"

This should be obvious, but I and lots of other people have been saying it for a long time. The impeachment investivation and trial, if there is one, are not for most Americans. Everyone who has conclusive opinions about them are almost irrelevant in the process. Moderates and independents, as usual, hold the key. If the Democrats offer a compelling case and the Senate acquits Trump anyway, I think those voters will vote Trump out of office. If the Republicans win the public opinion war (whether the Democrats make a good case or not), I think Trump will win reelection.

 

[KevinKohler]

Dems are already on shaky ground. Its been one long, unending list of "atrocities" from day one, none of which amounted to anything.

Stormy Danials, Kavenaugh, Russian Collusion, now this?

How many wrongs does it take to make a right, democrats?

 

[Captain Adverse]

Watergate redux? Trump impeachment inquiry heads for live TV

"“If you’re expecting revelation as opposed to confirmation, you’re going to be disappointed,” Jamieson said. “It’s going to seem anticlimactic unless something new is discovered.” . . .

"Mark Meckler, an early leader in the tea party movement, predicts a lot of Americans won’t even watch the broadcasts because they’ve already reached conclusions.

"Many Trump supporters won’t tune in “because they think it’s a sham process,” he said. “And I don’t think most people on the left will watch because they already know the conclusion in their minds. To them, the president has been impeachable since before he was elected.”"

This should be obvious, but I and lots of other people have been saying it for a long time. The impeachment investivation and trial, if there is one, are not for most Americans. Everyone who has conclusive opinions about them are almost irrelevant in the process. Moderates and independents, as usual, hold the key. If the Democrats offer a compelling case and the Senate acquits Trump anyway, I think those voters will vote Trump out of office. If the Republicans win the public opinion war (whether the Democrats make a good case or not), I think Trump will win reelection.

The key is exactly what you posted. "A compelling case."

When I was young, during the Watergate investigation, I supported Nixon because he got us out of Vietnam, and pushed for and was President when 18 year-olds got the right to vote. When the Watergate Tapes came out damning him as a conspirator to undermine the election process, I supported impeachment.

In all honesty I am one of those who currently think the process is pure politics, and has been the goal ever since he was elected. A person they were looking for any kind of crime or unpopular action to get rid of; ala tactics of Lavrentiy Beria of Soviet Union fame.

So they better have some pretty damning evidence by the time they vote for impeachment, or IMO not only will the Senate vote to acquit, but popular opinion will shift and return Trump to office.

 

[Nalu]

Dems are already on shaky ground. Its been one long, unending list of "atrocities" from day one, none of which amounted to anything.

Stormy Danials, Kavenaugh, Russian Collusion, now this?

How many wrongs does it take to make a right, democrats?

How many Americans have been tuned into any of that? The average American can't find an American state on a map. You think they know who Brett Kavanaugh is?

Most Americans are more or less oblivious to day to day political theater. They all know that impeachment is a big deal though. So people who typically avoid politics but who take their vote seriously will pay attention to portions of the impeachment process. My guess is that they despise Democrats and Republicans pretty equally and don't think that either party looks any better than the other by any of the dramas you listed.

 

[Cardinal]

“It’s going to seem anticlimactic unless something new is discovered.” . . .

This has become something of a running joke, since nothing new that's been discovered has really changed the calculus much, except insofar that public support for impeachment and removal is now at a majority. Which, when you put it like that, isn't for nothing.

 

[SLC]

Once this get to the Senate and the President gets due process and get to call Witt ewes the public opinion will turn have to the president. Then this will blow up in my he Dems faces

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Dems are already on shaky ground. Its been one long, unending list of "atrocities" from day one, none of which amounted to anything.

Stormy Danials, Kavenaugh, Russian Collusion, now this?

How many wrongs does it take to make a right, democrats?

Nah, they're not on shaky ground. The have the facts and the facts are on their side.

Everything is adding up to something collectively. All evidence suggests that twump is corrupt to the gills, abusing the office, betraying his oath and a criminal.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Once this get to the Senate and the President gets due process and get to call Witt ewes the public opinion will turn have to the president. Then this will blow up in my he Dems faces

Please cling to that fantasy.

 

[lemmiwinx]

The press was able to hound Nixon into resigning but Trump isn't wired that way. Plus he has yet to be charged with a crime.

 

[Captain Adverse]

“It’s going to seem anticlimactic unless something new is discovered.” . . .

This has become something of a running joke, since nothing new that's been discovered has really changed the calculus much, except insofar that public support for impeachment and removal is now at a majority. Which, when you put it like that, isn't for nothing.

Actually it is, because "public support for impeachment" is based primarily on the Media's non-stop blaring of negative commentary disguised as news. All constantly declaring Trump has done some serious wrong.

Strangely, anyone who makes an effort to read the available transcripts and reports will note a clear confirmation bias in such reporting. So far, IMHO there is no case. Just a lot of noise about certain opinions and assertions provided by "witnesses" who actually witnessed nothing. :coffeepap:

 

[Cardinal]

Actually it is, because "public support for impeachment" is based primarily on the Media's non-stop blaring of negative commentary disguised as news. All constantly declaring Trump has done some serious wrong.

Strangely, anyone who actually reads the available transcripts will note a clear confirmation bias in such reporting. So far, IMHO there is no case. Just a lot of noise about certain opinions provided by "witnesses" who actually witnessed nothing. :coffeepap:

If you don’t want to hear about impeachment then there’s always One America Network.

 

[Nalu]

The key is exactly what you posted. "A compelling case."

When I was young, during the Watergate investigation, I supported Nixon because he got us out of Vietnam, and pushed for and was President when 18 year-olds got the right to vote. When the Watergate Tapes came out damning him as a conspirator to undermine the election process, I supported impeachment.

In all honesty I am one of those who currently think the process is pure politics, and has been the goal ever since he was elected. A person they were looking for any kind of crime or unpopular action to get rid of; ala tactics of Lavrentiy Beria of Soviet Union fame.

So they better have some pretty damning evidence by the time they vote for impeachment, or IMO not only will the Senate vote to acquit, but popular opinion will shift and return Trump to office.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that all of the Democrats have always been out to get Trump. If that was the case, they would have impeached him in January. If they have no more evidence for impeachment now than they had in January, they'll be punished in 2020.

No, I don't think it's a witch hunt, but I do agree that it appears more political in nature than constitutional, as the Democrats keep telling us it is. We're heading into a presidential election. The Democratic base wants Trump impeached. In my opinion, House leadership finally caved because they need their base and in fact, they finally got a green light when a majority of Americans supported investigating the president.

This is the Democrats' fight to win or lose. My guess is that they're finding it pretty easy to put together a good case for impeachment, but they're notorious for ****ing things up.

 

[Mr Person]

Dems are already on shaky ground. Its been one long, unending list of "atrocities" from day one, none of which amounted to anything.

Stormy Danials, Kavenaugh, Russian Collusion, now this?

How many wrongs does it take to make a right, democrats?

An atrocity is Japanese live vivisection on Chinese prisoners during WWII.

And atrocity is the massacre of a town.

Finding out that Trump lied his ass off about screwing a porn star then paying her to keep shut is not an "atrocity." It is however something that the liars who pretended to be more moral than liberals by claiming "family values" should have cared about. It is something people who claim to care about lies should have cared about.

Watching right-wing scum brand Ford as a liar who was fabricating a hoax with Democratic help - even before a hearing - was not an atrocity. It was just a disgusting reflection on the tribalist and dishonest inclinations of a certain group of people. Similarly, it is not an atrocity that we put someone on SCOTUS who gave an unhinged political rant, replete with threats of retribution for daring to having him testify, but it is quite unwise; worse, unnecessary, because any other clean judge would have sailed through like Gorsuch did.

"Collusion"? No, the lack of collusion was not an atrocity. The lack of collusion resulted from the fact that the investigation was never into collusion. That was just another lie from the right. The investigation was into criminal conspiracy, and the only place evidence was lacking was on the element of explicit agreement. Apart from that, Trump knowingly welcomed and accepted a foreign enemy's interference in our election for his own benefit. (Well, that is if right wingers were telling the truth in 2012 when they called Russia our "greatest geopolitical foe"; but maybe that was just another lie). That really should be a big deal, but then, the people to whom it needed to be a big deal are the people who will tell any lie in order to "own the libtards".

And no, it's not an atrocity that you dishonestly ignore the 10+ counts of obstruction, the fact Mueller was not allowed to seek to indict Trump or even say he thought Trump might be guilty, the fact that he was allowed and thus did say the the report did NOT exonerate Trump of obstruction. Naturally you ignore that. Again, not an atrocity. Just petty tribalism.


And you know what? It's also not an atrocity that you would lie about all those three things you mentioned to try to score a stupid political point on an anonymous debate board. It's just yet another symptom of the disease that seems nigh-on certain to bring down American democracy.

You want to win and you want to win flawlessly (or at least to tell yourself you did). So you can't admit that anyone on the right did anything wrong. You have to dishonestly pretend that they're all fabrications and hoaxes designed by the left to victimize you conservatives.

...oh wait...no..you have to go farther, dumber, and more dishonest: you have to tell yourself they are atrocities.

 

[Nalu]

“It’s going to seem anticlimactic unless something new is discovered.” . . .

This has become something of a running joke, since nothing new that's been discovered has really changed the calculus much, except insofar that public support for impeachment and removal is now at a majority. Which, when you put it like that, isn't for nothing.

That's why I say that the decided minds don't matter (beyond where they register as a number in polls) and haven't mattered for quite some time. Trump supporters will support him no matter what. Trump opponents will oppose him no matter what. Most of the people in the middle have avoided the entire Trump presidency because it's unseemly and unproductive. Those people are going to have to start picking a side.

 

[Nalu]

Once this get to the Senate and the President gets due process and get to call Witt ewes the public opinion will turn have to the president. Then this will blow up in my he Dems faces

Do you have some evidence to believe that or is it just wishful thinking?

 

[Nalu]

The press was able to hound Nixon into resigning but Trump isn't wired that way. Plus he has yet to be charged with a crime.

The Senate was going to convict Nixon and public support was against him. If even one of those things happens in this case and even if the Senate acquits Trump, voters will still be likely not to reelect him next year.

 

[Cardinal]

That's why I say that the decided minds don't matter (beyond where they register as a number in polls) and haven't mattered for quite some time. Trump supporters will support him no matter what. Trump opponents will oppose him no matter what. Most of the people in the middle have avoided the entire Trump presidency because it's unseemly and unproductive. Those people are going to have to start picking a side.

There seems to be about 2-3% of the population that wavers back and forth. I'm not sure these people are reliable enough to argue to.

I think that this election will be about fighting a disinformation campaign by the White House, exciting the base and fighting efforts at voter suppression by making sure as many people are registered as possible. Voter suppression, in my opinion, may well be the biggest fight in 2020.

 

[Mycroft]

Watergate redux? Trump impeachment inquiry heads for live TV

"“If you’re expecting revelation as opposed to confirmation, you’re going to be disappointed,” Jamieson said. “It’s going to seem anticlimactic unless something new is discovered.” . . .

"Mark Meckler, an early leader in the tea party movement, predicts a lot of Americans won’t even watch the broadcasts because they’ve already reached conclusions.

"Many Trump supporters won’t tune in “because they think it’s a sham process,” he said. “And I don’t think most people on the left will watch because they already know the conclusion in their minds. To them, the president has been impeachable since before he was elected.”"

This should be obvious, but I and lots of other people have been saying it for a long time. The impeachment investivation and trial, if there is one, are not for most Americans. Everyone who has conclusive opinions about them are almost irrelevant in the process. Moderates and independents, as usual, hold the key. If the Democrats offer a compelling case and the Senate acquits Trump anyway, I think those voters will vote Trump out of office. If the Republicans win the public opinion war (whether the Democrats make a good case or not), I think Trump will win reelection.

What's interesting is that everyone scheduled to publicly testify in the coming week has already testified in a closed door hearing and has already had a transcript released.

We may see some perjury if people change their answers.

 

[Nalu]

There seems to be about 2-3% of the population that wavers back and forth. I'm not sure these people are reliable enough to argue to.

I think that this election will be about fighting a disinformation campaign by the White House, exciting the base and fighting efforts at voter suppression by making sure as many people are registered as possible. Voter suppression, in my opinion, may well be the biggest fight in 2020.

That all sounds right to me, but I'm not disregarding the importance of the impeachment. Democrats have put at least half of their eggs into the impeachment basket. Democrats and Republicans both have tied at least half of that half to Ukraine and the quid pro quo. If the Democrats botch impeachment, I think it will be devastating for them. Even if they do it right, they still have an uphill battle to fight against the things you mentioned.

 

[Cardinal]

That all sounds right to me, but I'm not disregarding the importance of the impeachment. Democrats have put at least half of their eggs into the impeachment basket. Democrats and Republicans both have tied at least half of that half to Ukraine and the quid pro quo. If the Democrats botch impeachment, I think it will be devastating for them. Even if they do it right, they still have an uphill battle to fight against the things you mentioned.

I disagree. I don't think anybody who's paying attention to any degree actually thinks there will be a conviction in the Senate. Removal from office isn't an expectation among Democrats, by and large.

 

[HumblePi]

Watergate redux? Trump impeachment inquiry heads for live TV

"“If you’re expecting revelation as opposed to confirmation, you’re going to be disappointed,” Jamieson said. “It’s going to seem anticlimactic unless something new is discovered.” . . .

"Mark Meckler, an early leader in the tea party movement, predicts a lot of Americans won’t even watch the broadcasts because they’ve already reached conclusions.

"Many Trump supporters won’t tune in “because they think it’s a sham process,” he said. “And I don’t think most people on the left will watch because they already know the conclusion in their minds. To them, the president has been impeachable since before he was elected.”"

This should be obvious, but I and lots of other people have been saying it for a long time. The impeachment investivation and trial, if there is one, are not for most Americans. Everyone who has conclusive opinions about them are almost irrelevant in the process. Moderates and independents, as usual, hold the key. If the Democrats offer a compelling case and the Senate acquits Trump anyway, I think those voters will vote Trump out of office. If the Republicans win the public opinion war (whether the Democrats make a good case or not), I think Trump will win reelection.

Reminds me of Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men

 

[SLC]

Do you have some evidence to believe that or is it just wishful thinking?

When the Senate calls the WB and Schiff's staff and the extent that this is orchestrated by the Democrats is revealed the tide will turn. And with the IG report and the Durham report to Dems will likely lose the House. Right now they have the American public because the Media is complicit. There is a reason the WB's lawyer predicted CNN would help get Trump impeached. But the American people aren't dumb and when the Senate puts a fair trial on the Media will be forced to cover the truth. And the tide will turn towards Trump.

 

[Nalu]

I disagree. I don't think anybody who's paying attention to any degree actually thinks there will be a conviction in the Senate. Removal from office isn't an expectation among Democrats, by and large.

No one thinks the Senate will convict, myself included. I'm talking about the House process, from the OP forward.

 

[Nalu]

Reminds me of Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men

That movie seems to be a favorite among DP members. I actually rewatched it earlier this year. It's one of the few movies I've seen several times. So good.

 

[Cardinal]

No one thinks the Senate will convict, myself included. I'm talking about the House process, from the OP forward.

House Democrats have thus far been nailing it. Their process has forced Republicans to disperse and create their own incoherent defenses, and they've been failing miserably. Try as Republicans may to turn the House hearings into a circus, they've been unsuccessful.