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Schiff says whistleblower testimony is 'redundant and unnecessary'

It isn't just the WB's safety that might be at risk here.... if he falls under the definition of "covert agent" and has served in the field within the last 5 years, uncovering his identity could expose ongoing operations and place operatives at risk. I don't know if that's the case, but it's certainly a possibility.

That too, if it is the case. But even if it isn't, there is no need to disclose the WB's identity. Saying so is just a distraction strategy by the Trump camp. A WB only TRIGGERS an investigation. When the investigation then largely corroborates what the WB initially brought attention to, what good would it do to disclose his/her identity?

I'm not saying this to you, who gets it right, but to all the Trumpsters here:

Suppose someone murders two or three people. Someone else calls the police's Anonymous Crime-Reporting Phone Line and points to the murderer. The police investigate, and easily conclude, with irrefutable evidence, that the man did murder the victims, and the evidence is more than good enough for the DA to indict him. Say, they find ten other people who saw the murderer do it and are willing to testify about it, his fingerprints are on the murder weapon, the victims fought back and scratched him and bit him, and not only the scratches and bite marks in his body match their nails and dental records, but the material recovered from under their nails is matched 100% do the murderer's DNA; his hair was found in the murder scene and his blood-covered clothes (with blood that matches 100% the victims') were found in his house together with belongings he took from the victims, security camera footage shows him committing the murders with his face clearly seen, all witnesses picked him up unequivocally from a line, his closest associates (including one of his lawyers) went on TV and on press conferences and confirmed that he did it, and the man confessed to it himself and said he'd do it again, and publicly invited others to help him repeat the crime, and so on and so forth.

In this case, the murderer's defense lawyers won't go too far to get a not guilty verdict, if they insist in identifying the anonymous source of the initial tip, claiming that the tipster had a beef against the defender (say, was his scorned and cheated-upon ex-wife). Well, sure, she might have reported him out of revenge... but it doesn't make it any less true that he committed the murders, and it doesn't make the abundant evidence that he did, any less conclusive and compelling. So, revealing the identity of the tipster serves no purpose, and will prevent other future crimes from being anonymously reported.

Which is exactly why a WB's identity must remain hidden. Otherwise, nobody else will ever blow the whistle again.

And let's add to the above, the likelihood that the criminal's brother will kill his ex-wife if it is revealed that she was the initial tipster. Another good reason not to say her name.

Trumpsters - the thinking ones; I suppose they are rare - must know that (the non-thinking ones, a vast majority, will just gobble up whatever the thinking ones feed them), but they will try to obfuscate and focus on the WB anyway in an attempt to discredit the extensive corroboration.
 
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Adam Schiff says whistleblower testimony is 'redundant and unnecessary' - CNNPolitics


Strange. Why would the Dems hide the accuser from cross examination? If the case is so airtight, why not go public with all of it?

Because Trump has tried to intimidate and put the WB's life in danger....and his/her testimony would be redundant and unnecessary.

The WB attempted to meet the republicans half way by making the same offer that Trump made to Mueller in that he/she would submit hand written answers to a list of questions. It was more or less a take it or leave it proposition and the republicans chose to leave it. Too bad, they had their chance.
 
Because Trump has tried to intimidate and put the WB's life in danger....and his/her testimony would be redundant and unnecessary.

The WB attempted to meet the republicans half way by making the same offer that Trump made to Mueller in that he/she would submit hand written answers to a list of questions. It was more or less a take it or leave it proposition and the republicans chose to leave it. Too bad, they had their chance.

Well, it's not "too bad, they had their chance" like they missed an opportunity. No, they don't really want to question the WB. They only want to keep claiming that the WB is biased, as a distraction and obfuscation technique. So of course they passed on the "chance" because it would have vacated their strategy.
 
I just had a thought... remember back when President Trump came into office and he appointed Steve Bannon to the National Security Council and we all scratched our heads?

What if he did it because he planned to use foreign policy for partisan gain all along? What if he has been using it all along?

This goes without saying. The reason why Trump ran in the first place was to favor his business and enhance his big ego (oh, and to spite Obama). Trump is all about narcissism, corruption, bullying (abuse of power) and personal gain. He will use every institution of the United States government for his personal gain, if allowed. I don't think it is partisan, though. For Trump the party itself is not important. The party is only something that serves his goals, and he makes sure that it does, by always threatening to unleash his dogs onto the primaries of anybody who seeks re-election and dares to oppose him.

The part I find the funniest, is when people here say that Trump was just worried about corruption in Ukraine by the Bidens. Trump, worried about corruption? He is one of the most corrupt people on Earth! (Remember Trump University? Or the Trump Foundation?) He sees corruption as a business opportunity. He couldn't care less if Ukraine is corrupt. All he wants is to favor his own campaign.
 
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Adam Schiff says whistleblower testimony is 'redundant and unnecessary' - CNNPolitics


Strange. Why would the Dems hide the accuser from cross examination? If the case is so airtight, why not go public with all of it?

The whistleblower is not the accuser; he is the informant.

He informs the proper authorities that work to check out his story. If it checks out, the investigative authority becomes the accuser. Once the whistleblower files his report he becomes irrelevant to the process.

The only reason that Trump wants him outed is to make an example out of him so others inside the government become (or stay) afraid to reveal the truth. People that are encouraging this are asking for bad things. Protection of the whistleblower is an imperative for good government.
 
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Well, it's not "too bad, they had their chance" like they missed an opportunity. No, they don't really want to question the WB. They only want to keep claiming that the WB is biased, as a distraction and obfuscation technique. So of course they passed on the "chance" because it would have vacated their strategy.

Quite right...and notice that Mueller didn't pass up the chance to submit written questions to Trump because he was more interested in finding the truth, than staging a dog and pony show.
 
Because a lot of other officials have already confirmed it. Including ambassadors, envoys, other WH staff. And actually even Trump's Chief of Staff, and Trump himself.

The whistleblower's role is to blow the whistle, then step aside and let the investigation happen.

It's similar to someone pulling the fire alarm when there is a fire. Typically that person then steps aside and lets the firemen do their job. The firemen don't need to interview the person if they see all the flames raging on.

So I guess the Dems want to preserve the whistleblower. I mean, crazy like Trumpsters are, the WB might get killed.

Oh well, I didn't read the thread. I responded to the OP because I wanted to make the fire alarm analogy. I'm sure others here have already pointed to these ideas.

Over and over again. And the replies are still.....but the WB!!

Thx for offering yet another version on why the WB is no longer relevant.
 
This goes without saying. The reason why Trump ran in the first place was to favor his business and enhance his big ego (oh, and to spite Obama). Trump is all about narcissism, corruption, bullying (abuse of power) and personal gain. He will use every institution of the United States government for his personal gain, if allowed. I don't think it is partisan, though. For Trump the party itself is not important. The party is only something that serves his goals, and he makes sure that it does, by always threatening to unleash his dogs onto the primaries of anybody who seeks re-election and dares to oppose him.

The part I find the funniest, is when people here say that Trump was just worried about corruption in Ukraine by the Bidens. Trump, worried about corruption? He is one of the most corrupt people on Earth! (Remember Trump University? Or the Trump Foundation?) He sees corruption as a business opportunity. He couldn't care less if Ukraine is corrupt. All he wants is to favor his own campaign.

*L* That's actually funny, GreatNews.....well, not the part about Trump being the most corrupt person on Earth - that's sad but true. What's funny is that I just told my wife about my thought about Bannon, and she told me exactly what you just did... almost word-for-word.

But that's not where I'm going with this.... my mind is trying to unravel the mechanics of it - I'm trying to unravel the patterns. And what I'm coming up with is that he tried to put Bannon in the role, but it didn't work... either Bannon wasn't suited for it... or, more likely, that he was too high-profile. You want someone who has almost zero public profile, who is an NSC staffer, but not a typical one... because their information only flows one way. You want someone who can send and receive. The more I look at it, I'm thinking John Eisenberg is going to be the key to this whole thing. He's the "X" where a whole lot of lines cross for the Trump Administration.
 
Because a lot of other officials have already confirmed it. Including ambassadors, envoys, other WH staff. And actually even Trump's Chief of Staff, and Trump himself.

The whistleblower's role is to blow the whistle, then step aside and let the investigation happen.

It's similar to someone pulling the fire alarm when there is a fire. Typically that person then steps aside and lets the firemen do their job. The firemen don't need to interview the person if they see all the flames raging on.

So I guess the Dems want to preserve the whistleblower. I mean, crazy like Trumpsters are, the WB might get killed.

Oh well, I didn't read the thread. I responded to the OP because I wanted to make the fire alarm analogy. I'm sure others here have already pointed to these ideas.

Sorry, no. This is pure nonsense. None of those folks, include Trump have demonstrated that anything in the phone call was illegal. Only the WB can provide that. Schiff is resisting because he knows the WB, under oath and in public will destroy Schiff's house of cards in a nanosecond. The WB is also to anchor for the rest of the investigation.
 
Quite right...and notice that Mueller didn't pass up the chance to submit written questions to Trump because he was more interested in finding the truth, than staging a dog and pony show.

What i find interesting is that the reason Trump was allowed to given written answers is because his lawyers knew he'd mouth off and perjure himself. In the case of the WB it's because there could be a safety factor for them and their family.
 
Sorry, no. This is pure nonsense. None of those folks, include Trump have demonstrated that anything in the phone call was illegal. Only the WB can provide that. Schiff is resisting because he knows the WB, under oath and in public will destroy Schiff's house of cards in a nanosecond. The WB is also to anchor for the rest of the investigation.

Really? So why didn't the Republicans want to collect the WB's written testimony? It would be covered by perjury laws, too. How do *you* explain that part?

The insistence with disclosing the WB's IDENTITY (not his/her testimony) is obviously an intimidation technique, not to forget the distraction and obfuscation one I've already provided. Trump wants to intimidate all other potential whistleblowers...

The very existence of the concept of a whistleblower would be in jeopardy if the person had to be exposed, and in this case, in danger of being harassed, or even killed, by some crazy and dumb Trumpster. Remember the idiot who showed up with a shotgun at the pizza parlor, based on the 100% false conspiracy theory that the place had a basement from where Hillary Clinton was involved in pedophilia??? Would you trust this kind of fanatic with the information of the personal identity of the whistleblower? Would *you* welcome such disclosure if the whistleblower were one of your family members? Can you honestly answer this question? And don't say "a family member of mine would never do that" because, hey, families do have people with different political persuasion (thus the proverbial heated Thanksgiving Dinner discussions when politics comes up).

There is a good reason why there are ANONYMOUS tip lines set up by the Police, and whistleblower statuses. It's to avoid discouraging people from reporting crimes.

No, the Repubicans are not at all interested in the SUBSTANCE of the whistleblower's testimony (otherwise they'd have accepted the written testimony offer), but only, in smearing, discrediting, and intimidating the whistleblower.
 
Really? So why didn't the Republicans want to collect the WB's written testimony? It would be covered by perjury laws, too. How do *you* explain that part?

The insistence with disclosing the WB's IDENTITY (not his/her testimony) is obviously an intimidation technique, not to forget the distraction and obfuscation one I've already provided. Trump wants to intimidate all other potential whistleblowers...

The very existence of the concept of a whistleblower would be in jeopardy if the person had to be exposed, and in this case, in danger of being harassed, or even killed, by some crazy and dumb Trumpster. Remember the idiot that showed up with a shotgun to the pizza parlor, based on the 100% false conspiracy theory that the place had a basement from where Hillary Clinton was involved in pedophilia??? Would you trust this kind of fanatic with the information of the personal identity of the whistleblower?

There is a good reason why there are ANONYMOUS tip lines set up by the Police, and whistleblower statuses. It's to avoid discouraging people from reporting crimes.

No, the Repubicans are not at all interested in the SUBSTANCE of the whistleblower's testimony (otherwise they'd have accepted the written testimony offer), but only, in smearing, discrediting, and intimidating the whistleblower.
Written questions and responses offer no opportunity for follow ups. When a WB accusations result in the impeachment of a President the WB has to be questioned in the open. The WB law actually allows that in certain circumstances.
 
Written questions and responses offer no opportunity for follow ups. When a WB accusations result in the impeachment of a President the WB has to be questioned in the open. The WB law actually allows that in certain circumstances.

Trump didn't give Mueller any opportunity for follows-ups. Trump supporters seemed perfectly happy with that.
 
Really? So why didn't the Republicans want to collect the WB's written testimony? It would be covered by perjury laws, too. How do *you* explain that part?

The insistence with disclosing the WB's IDENTITY (not his/her testimony) is obviously an intimidation technique, not to forget the distraction and obfuscation one I've already provided. Trump wants to intimidate all other potential whistleblowers...

The very existence of the concept of a whistleblower would be in jeopardy if the person had to be exposed, and in this case, in danger of being harassed, or even killed, by some crazy and dumb Trumpster. Remember the idiot who showed up with a shotgun at the pizza parlor, based on the 100% false conspiracy theory that the place had a basement from where Hillary Clinton was involved in pedophilia??? Would you trust this kind of fanatic with the information of the personal identity of the whistleblower? Would *you* welcome such disclosure if the whistleblower were one of your family members? Can you honestly answer this question? And don't say "a family member of mine would never do that" because, hey, families do have people with different political persuasion (thus the proverbial heated Thanksgiving Dinner discussions when politics comes up).

There is a good reason why there are ANONYMOUS tip lines set up by the Police, and whistleblower statuses. It's to avoid discouraging people from reporting crimes.

No, the Repubicans are not at all interested in the SUBSTANCE of the whistleblower's testimony (otherwise they'd have accepted the written testimony offer), but only, in smearing, discrediting, and intimidating the whistleblower.

I'm thinking there might be a "soft on Cuba" angle here as well..... back in the 1960 campaign debates, Senator Kennedy attacked the Eisenhower Administration for being "soft on Cuba" and Vice President Nixon couldn't respond, because if he did, it'd expose what he was doing behind the scenes to plan for what became the Bay of Pigs invasion.

What if the identity of the WB couldn't be released because he's covered under the "covert agent" law, and therefore covered by National Security? The odds are pretty good the President knows who the WB is... I think it's probably about as much an open secret as the Bay of Pigs was.... so what if he's hammering on it precisely because he knows the WB's identity can't be revealed?
 
Sorry, no. This is pure nonsense. None of those folks, include Trump have demonstrated that anything in the phone call was illegal. Only the WB can provide that. Schiff is resisting because he knows the WB, under oath and in public will destroy Schiff's house of cards in a nanosecond. The WB is also to anchor for the rest of the investigation.

This isn't accurate. Trump abused his office, and abuse of office is an impeachable offense. The best evidence we have that Trump abused his office was when he said, "I would like you to do me a favor though.." AFTER Zelenskyy asked for more javelin missile sales. Trump followed this up with a request to investigate the Bidens. This is all in Trump's call transcript, the one the WH released.
 
All due respect, we only knew that because her identity was revealed. We can't say that for a fact yet with the WB.

Yes, that's true. With respect to the whistleblower, we can't say that's a fact yet. :)
 
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Written questions and responses offer no opportunity for follow ups. When a WB accusations result in the impeachment of a President the WB has to be questioned in the open. The WB law actually allows that in certain circumstances.

Well, send written follow-up questions, then.
 
Sorry, no. This is pure nonsense. None of those folks, include Trump have demonstrated that anything in the phone call was illegal. Only the WB can provide that. Schiff is resisting because he knows the WB, under oath and in public will destroy Schiff's house of cards in a nanosecond. The WB is also to anchor for the rest of the investigation.

Only the WB can provide what? They filed a complaint with a handful of issues. Two that are simple is: When Zelenskiy brought up aide from the US (mentioning the missiles) Trump immediately comes back with "need you do do a favor though. It's similar to your kid coming up to you and asking if they can use the car. You reply: Sure, I need you to do me a favor though, take out the trash and do the dishes in the sink.

Next is the WB made claims of the calls transcript being moved to a coded server. Trump's own people have corroborated that since almost the beginning. The reason given was, the legal team felt there could be issues if the call got released. And whattaya know!

A month ago the cries were the WB claims were secondhand knowledge and garbage it doesn't count. Now not only has the transcript shown the claims were accurate, but there has been a line of people to confirm the claims (meaning the WB no longer holds any relevant information). So now you guys are wetting your pants because the persons identity isn't known, which as has been pointed out (repeatedly on this thread) would not make a damn bit of difference because we have a memo of the call and we have first hand knowledge.

In the end the WB has agreed to answer written questions. I'm sure you recall someone else recently doing that, so he wouldn't perjure himself, but hey, if it's good enough for him, it's a great new norm for the country to start abiding by.
 
"Who is Bill Burck? … This mysterious Bill Burck who is filtering these documents. … Who’s paying him?" - Senator Dick Durbin, during the Kavanaugh confirmation hearings.

The more I dig into this whole mess, no matter what angle I approach it from... invariably, I keep coming across one name - William A. Burck.
I think there's a lot of puss under that scab, as President Nixon would say.
 
I'm thinking there might be a "soft on Cuba" angle here as well..... back in the 1960 campaign debates, Senator Kennedy attacked the Eisenhower Administration for being "soft on Cuba" and Vice President Nixon couldn't respond, because if he did, it'd expose what he was doing behind the scenes to plan for what became the Bay of Pigs invasion.

What if the identity of the WB couldn't be released because he's covered under the "covert agent" law, and therefore covered by National Security? The odds are pretty good the President knows who the WB is... I think it's probably about as much an open secret as the Bay of Pigs was.... so what if he's hammering on it precisely because he knows the WB's identity can't be revealed?

Anything is possible. I'd bet more, though, on Trump knowing very well that if he succeeds in exposing the WB's identity, survives impeachment (which he obviously will because his sycophants in the Senate won't convict him regardless of the evidence) and wins re-election (which is not at all impossible like some overoptimistic progressives think), he will have 4 very tranquil years because NOBODY will have the guts to denounce him for anything, so, he'll have a free rein.
 
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Anything is possible. I'd bet more, though, in Trump knowing very well that if he succeeds in exposing the WB's identity, survives impeachment (which he obviously will because his sycophants in the Senate won't convict him regardless of the evidence) and wins re-election (which is not at all impossible like some overoptimistic progressives think), he will have 4 very tranquil years because NOBODY will have the guts to denounce him for anything, so, he'll have a free rain.

You mean free reign. Because that's what it'll be.
 
Written questions and responses offer no opportunity for follow ups. When a WB accusations result in the impeachment of a President the WB has to be questioned in the open. The WB law actually allows that in certain circumstances.

Could you link me to some of your posts where you said much the same about Trump only being willing to answer written questions? And as has been pointed out over and over, the WB isn't the accuser anymore than the guy pulling the fire alarm started the fire.
 
You mean free reign. Because that's what it'll be.

Sorry, it was a typo. I meant rein. But reign works too! Clever! King Trump the first of his name. Soon to be succeeded by Queen Ivanka Trump.

(GreatNews2night shudders in horror)
 
What i find interesting is that the reason Trump was allowed to given written answers is because his lawyers knew he'd mouth off and perjure himself. In the case of the WB it's because there could be a safety factor for them and their family.

I think even Mueller considered the paranoid nature and bombastic personality of the man when finally agreeing to letting him just answer written questions.

In the WB case it's also to protect future whistle blowers and even democracy itself. Without whistle blowers the corruption would go on unabated.
 
Sorry, it was a typo. I meant rein. But reign works too! Clever!

*L* Well, I figure if you're going to start thinking like my wife, I might as well use the same conversational tactics I use to respond to her too.... zingers are my only defense!
 
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