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Sanders' immigration plan: Halt deportations, abolish ICE, welcome 50K 'climate migrants,' give welf

I thought that "the governments of the US are also "paying for education" (both primary and secondary, AND they are also paying for post-secondary education as well)" sort of made it.

Nope. Maybe I'm missing something, but I have no idea what you're trying to say.

True, they only pay for (roughly) "75% no direct cost to user and 25% direct cost to user" post-secondary educations.

I will admit that you provided AN answer. Unfortunately you did not provide an answer to the question you were asked.

Since "your government" (assuming that you are talking about "The Republicans" [whatever that means] and "The Democrats" [whatever that means] doesn't appear to have a clue what to do about the situation, who WILL you be voting for?

I don't know. My caucus is still a long way away.

I merely pointed out what the "Christian Thing To Do" is. Feel free to accept or reject the teachings of Yeshua bar Yosef bin Nazaret as you feel your God wants you to.

(BTW - Your interpretation of "Deal with the actual situation that you have allowed to come into existence with kindness and humanity AND do NOT allow it to reoccur by the simple expedient of tossing out any new people who enter the country illegally." as "want(ing) us to feed, clothe, bathe, educate, and cuddle people who enter this country illegally" is rather ingenuous.

My "NetNik" describes me quite accurately. "The Cynical and Irascible Universal Curmudgeon" is just too long for convenience (and also exceeds the character limits).

Would you like to try the "Pentateuch", the "Talmud", the "Qu'ran", the "Bhagavad Gita", the "Tripitakas", the "Veda", the "Upanishads", the "Five Classics", and/or the "Tao-te-ching"?

I don't care what you quote. I find your communication style offputting and ineffective, but that's just my opinion.
 
Sorry, I don't believe in Spiritualism any more than I believe in "Corporate Churches".

I see. Well, you just spent the better part of a page pasting Bible verses. Again, silly me thought you were trying to make a point.
 
They have natural rights once under US Jurisdiction. Someone seeking refuge still has a claim to safety.

Their claim has already been recognized when their status as a refugee was accepted outside the US. Its blatantly apparent you do not understand immigration law or refugee status under International law. Let's see if you actually read this time. When a refugee arrives at a port of entry they already have a legal status to enter the US....and receive permanent residency shortly after arrival...so again, why is it they need to have asylum?
 
Their claim has already been recognized when their status as a refugee was accepted outside the US. Its blatantly apparent you do not understand immigration law or refugee status under International law. Let's see if you actually read this time. When a refugee arrives at a port of entry they already have a legal status to enter the US....and receive permanent residency shortly after arrival...so again, why is it they need to have asylum?

Persons seeking refuge have natural rights once under US Jurisdiction. The US must recognize its Jurisdiction, first.
 
Ffs, this thread has become mind numbing. I think we managed a solid dozen posts about Sanders's immigration plan out of nearly 300 in total. Great work, team.
 
They have to be subject to US Jurisdiction, first.

Let's try it again

You are 100% correct. People who are not in the United States of America and/or who don't want to go there have absolutely no basis to care about what the laws of the United States of America are.

What puzzles me is why you think that this "point" has any bearing on reality. Possibly you could enlighten me.

since your response was about as "enlightening" as an extinguished candle sunk at the bottom of a barrel of bituminous sand buried at the bottom of a coal mine would be to a blind man at midnight during a total lunar eclipse.
 
You cannot "steal" someone from another country unless they are rightfully owned slaves of that country. That sort of immorality of servitude went out with the Soviet Union and its policy of treating its citizens as their slaves who were not allowed to leave "socialist paradise".

Since I didn't say anything about "stealing someone", I haven't the foggiest idea how your "response" relates to my question.

I asked you if you felt that the government of the United States of America should reimburse other countries for the amounts that those other countries spend educating the people with post-secondary educations who immigrate to the United States of America so that the US had the benefit of that education and the country that paid for it does not?

To put it in perspective, if someone takes a car without paying for it and then gives it to you, would you feel that you had any obligation to reimburse the person who actually paid for the car if you wanted to keep it?

If a country "free education" expects its citizens to pay taxpayers back their education, that is a contractual relationship between the student and their government. The country they emigrate to has zero obligation, just as an employer has zero obligation to whomever funded an employee's prior education.

In short, you do NOT think that the US has any obligation to reimburse those countries which have paid for the education of people who then move to the United States of America.

OK, now, would you feel that the US courts should enforce foreign judgments obtained by governments against the people whose education the governments had paid for who had subsequently immigrated to the United States of America without repaying the actual cost of their education? (When answering that question, the assumption is that the government in question HAD passed legislation requiring emigres to repay the cost of their education.)

AND would you feel that the US courts should enforce foreign judgments (where their was a mandatory period of service required in order to obtain an education) obtained by governments against the people whose education the governments had paid for who had subsequently immigrated to the United States of America without completing the mandatory period of service)? (When answering that question, the assumption is that the government in question HAD passed legislation requiring persons to complete a mandatory period of service as a condition of the cost of their education being paid for by the government.)

And, by the way, similarly the US and State government has zero moral (as opposed to legal) obligation to pay for the primary, secondary, or college education of illegals; although there is nothing that precludes the taxpayers from doing so.

For some reason you appear to believe that the money collected by the US federal and state government does NOT come from taxpayers.
 
Yes; any "refugee" found in the US is subject to US Jurisdiction.

As is any "citizen", "permanent resident", "visa holder", "tourist", "lost hiker", or even "shipwrecked sailor" that is "found in the US".

So, since you DO have a point, maybe you'd like to tell me what it is.
 
I see. Well, you just spent the better part of a page pasting Bible verses. Again, silly me thought you were trying to make a point.

There is a difference between "Religions" and "Corporate Churches".
 
There is a difference between "Religions" and "Corporate Churches".

There's a difference between religion and spirituality too. I don't deny that there are lots of good passages in all of the "holy texts". I just don't give them any more weight than the good passages written by poets, novelists, playwrights, lyricists, etc.
 
There's a difference between religion and spirituality too. I don't deny that there are lots of good passages in all of the "holy texts". I just don't give them any more weight than the good passages written by poets, novelists, playwrights, lyricists, etc.

Agreed.

Not only that, but, if you give full credit to what the individual leaders of ALL of the world's religions will tell you, the all originate from the same source. It's just that the "Corporate Churches" each want you to give all of your money to them (and not to any of the other "false religions").
 
Let's try it again

You are 100% correct. People who are not in the United States of America and/or who don't want to go there have absolutely no basis to care about what the laws of the United States of America are.

What puzzles me is why you think that this "point" has any bearing on reality. Possibly you could enlighten me.

since your response was about as "enlightening" as an extinguished candle sunk at the bottom of a barrel of bituminous sand buried at the bottom of a coal mine would be to a blind man at midnight during a total lunar eclipse.

lol. Any refugee found in the US is subject to US Jurisdiction. Any questions, so far?
 
As is any "citizen", "permanent resident", "visa holder", "tourist", "lost hiker", or even "shipwrecked sailor" that is "found in the US".

So, since you DO have a point, maybe you'd like to tell me what it is.

I thought you understood the concept. Once subject to US Jurisdiction, that person's status can be determined.
 
I thought you understood the concept. Once subject to US Jurisdiction, that person's status can be determined.

Wrong, status can be determined before entering the US and in fact is, except in the case of asylees who file at ports of entry or inside the US
 
Since I didn't say anything about "stealing someone", I haven't the foggiest idea how your "response" relates to my question.

I asked you if you felt that the government of the United States of America should reimburse other countries for the amounts that those other countries spend educating the people with post-secondary educations who immigrate to the United States of America so that the US had the benefit of that education and the country that paid for it does not?

I refuse to believe, that you believe, your mind is so fog shrouded as to not comprehend your implicit meaning. You stated:

"if you don't, doesn't that mean that you approve of the US (effectively) "stealing" that education from the other countries?".

You can't "steal" human capital (enhanced skills, knowledges, and abilities), in theory you can only steal the person who holds those SKA... i.e. through enslavement or involuntary indebted servitude. Obviously unless the US is forcing people to immigrate to the US in servatude, no human capital is "stolen".

The ONLY theft operative is that of the person who acquired education for free, after agreeing to service or compensation and then reneges on it. Unless the US co-signed for a loan or debt on some foreign citizens education in their country of origin, the US is not a party to the contract and is NOT stealing anything.

To put it in perspective, if someone takes a car without paying for it and then gives it to you, would you feel that you had any obligation to reimburse the person who actually paid for the car if you wanted to keep it?

Of course, I'd return the free car to the actual owner. But your analogy is poor:

First, "the SKA car" (human capital improvement) was not given to me, it is still possessed by the person who has it and uses it (as far as I know). He may use the car to his (or my benefit) but I don't have it - he does.

Second, you can return a car but you can't return SKA - not without someone unknown method of brain surgery and neurological data transference. He has these SKA, he will always have it. As human capital HE IS THE (education improved) CAR.

Third, I would never return a person as if he were "a car" to a country without proof that he was not entitled to the free education, and that he committed more than a civil offense. Nor would I pay for his improved car. However I would, like any internationally recognized debt obligation, permit the financial debt claim to be adjudicated against the person in a court of law in the US. Its a dispute of debt between two parties of which I am not a member.

So no, I wouldn't pay Russia for their education of an immigrant anymore than I would expect Mexico to pay for American ex pats.

Got it?

In short, you do NOT think that the US has any obligation to reimburse those countries which have paid for the education of people who then move to the United States of America.

OK, now, would you feel that the US courts should enforce foreign judgments obtained by governments against the people whose education the governments had paid for who had subsequently immigrated to the United States of America without repaying the actual cost of their education? (When answering that question, the assumption is that the government in question HAD passed legislation requiring emigres to repay the cost of their education.)

AND would you feel that the US courts should enforce foreign judgments (where their was a mandatory period of service required in order to obtain an education) obtained by governments against the people whose education the governments had paid for who had subsequently immigrated to the United States of America without completing the mandatory period of service)? (When answering that question, the assumption is that the government in question HAD passed legislation requiring persons to complete a mandatory period of service as a condition of the cost of their education being paid for by the government.)

I believe US courts should enforce foreign judgements through court hearings the way they do for any alleged financial debt. I do not believe the individual can or should be returned for mandatory service (indebted servitude) as "compensation".

Slavery and servitude as compensation for a debt should be an anathema to any moral human being. You don't get that?
 
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What part of a refugee would not be admitted until they have refugee status did you not comprehend?

Natural right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and safety within US Jurisdiction.

would it help if they all had Arms so they don't get Infringed as well?
 
Natural right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and safety within US Jurisdiction.

would it help if they all had Arms so they don't get Infringed as well?

They wouldn't be admissible to the US, until granted refugee status. Ince they have a refugee status it would be ignorant to think they would apply for asylum.
Further, what you stated isn't in the Constitution it's from the Declaration of Independence.
 
They wouldn't be admissible to the US, until granted refugee status. Ince they have a refugee status it would be ignorant to think they would apply for asylum.
Further, what you stated isn't in the Constitution it's from the Declaration of Independence.

natural rights pre-exist our Constitution.
 
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