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Sanders' immigration plan: Halt deportations, abolish ICE, welcome 50K 'climate migrants,' give welf

Nalu

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Sanders''' immigration plan: Halt deportations, abolish ICE, welcome 50K '''climate migrants,''' give welfare to all | Fox News

"As president, Sanders also would decriminalize illegal border crossings, making it a civil violation.*. . .

"Part of that plan includes breaking up both Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and Customs and Border Protection (CBP) -- the two main agencies involved on the ground in enforcing immigration law in both communities and at the border. Matters to do with deportation and enforcement would return to the Department of Justice, customs matters to the Treasury and naturalization and citizenship*to the State Department.

"For those immigrants, illegal or not, who are in the country, Sanders accelerates the sometimes-cautious calls by the 2020 Democratic field to include illegal immigrants in welfare programs and other government services such as health care. Under Sanders, everything is on the table for everyone in the country regardless of immigration status. . . .

"Sanders promises that both his “Medicare-for-all” and “College-for-all” plans would be available regardless of immigration status. He also wants to include free universal school meals -- breakfast, lunch, dinner (and snacks) -- regardless of immigration status."

-----

I like most of Sanders's plan, but these 3 items are going to be problems for him. The first 2 are just issues of messaging, but Democrats are notoriously incompetent with messaging.

Conservatives make decriminalization sound like legalization. Sanders doesn't want to legalize illegal immigration. He wants to make it a civil offense rather than a criminal offense.

Conservatives make it sound like the Democrats want to stop enforcing immigration and customs laws altogether. Sanders doesn't want to just abolish ICE and CBP. He wants to restructure them outside of DHS.

The third item is a bigger problem. I can't think of any good messaging myself that is going to enthuse Americans about providing welfare and other government benefits to all immigrants regardless of their status. Good luck with that one, Bernie.

Here's another source for those who, like me, are dubious of FOX. I'm happy to say that if you read both articles objectively, they say about the same thing.

Bernie Sanders releases immigration plan in 2020 Democratic primary
 
Pelosi's must be pulling hair out as these Dems/Inds continue to go left in defiance of Pelosi warning.:lol:
 
I would take any article on a Democrat presidential candidate published by Fox News with a huge (truckload) grain of salt.
 
Pelosi's must be pulling hair out as these Dems/Inds continue to go left in defiance of Pelosi warning.:lol:

Nothing substantive to add then (and a barely intelligible post at that). Cool. You couldn't have even read the first article in 3 minutes, but you do you.
 
I would take any article on a Democrat presidential candidate published by Fox News with a huge (truckload) grain of salt.

Sigh. That's why I gave you 2 articles.
 
Does anybody here even read the initial post and the source document before they start responding?
 
Sanders''' immigration plan: Halt deportations, abolish ICE, welcome 50K '''climate migrants,''' give welfare to all | Fox News

"As president, Sanders also would decriminalize illegal border crossings, making it a civil violation.*. . .

"Part of that plan includes breaking up both Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and Customs and Border Protection (CBP) -- the two main agencies involved on the ground in enforcing immigration law in both communities and at the border. Matters to do with deportation and enforcement would return to the Department of Justice, customs matters to the Treasury and naturalization and citizenship*to the State Department.

"For those immigrants, illegal or not, who are in the country, Sanders accelerates the sometimes-cautious calls by the 2020 Democratic field to include illegal immigrants in welfare programs and other government services such as health care. Under Sanders, everything is on the table for everyone in the country regardless of immigration status. . . .

"Sanders promises that both his “Medicare-for-all” and “College-for-all” plans would be available regardless of immigration status. He also wants to include free universal school meals -- breakfast, lunch, dinner (and snacks) -- regardless of immigration status."

-----

I like most of Sanders's plan, but these 3 items are going to be problems for him. The first 2 are just issues of messaging, but Democrats are notoriously incompetent with messaging.

Conservatives make decriminalization sound like legalization. Sanders doesn't want to legalize illegal immigration. He wants to make it a civil offense rather than a criminal offense.

Conservatives make it sound like the Democrats want to stop enforcing immigration and customs laws altogether. Sanders doesn't want to just abolish ICE and CBP. He wants to restructure them outside of DHS.

The third item is a bigger problem. I can't think of any good messaging myself that is going to enthuse Americans about providing welfare and other government benefits to all immigrants regardless of their status. Good luck with that one, Bernie.

Here's another source for those who, like me, are dubious of FOX. I'm happy to say that if you read both articles objectively, they say about the same thing.

Aloha Nalu *shaka*

The first one...."decriminalize Illegal border Crossings, making it civil" See this bothers me and the Hypocrisy.

Your first offense border crossing is a misdemeanor "essential civil" Its when you are CAUGHT again when its considered an felony. We can give the benefit of the doubt that maybe the first time you got it was negligent or for extenuating circumstance. But when you are caught a second time its a felony.....

Common, you shoplift from a store and get caught the first time. You do it again? Really it should remain a civil case, so after the 6th time and then you kill someone in a DUI or god forbid shoot someone in the back on a pier your illegal status is still civil, it should not have even reached the second time with our CURRENT laws. Thats just ridiculous.

The immigration thing is a complete sham..... There is a lawful way to enter the country. 14th amendment and VISA abuser are no different from illegal border crossing and false claims of asylum. ALL illegal immigration is ILLEGAL immigration. YES my wife is a holder of a green card to which I waited patiently waited in line for all her USCIS docs to be approved (total of 1.5 years before she entered the US), multiple interviews, paid THOUSANDS of dollars for her to finally get here. We happily married, with 2 wonderful kids and a we are simple law abiding citizen to which we file joint taxes and follow all applicable state and federal laws with the occasional speeding on the freeway.

I had to sign a statement of sponsorship/support, to prove I was not on any type of public assistance and through financials I showed I was able to support her without public assistance. What was so hard about it? If it was worth it and YES she is 100% worth it and never would I have a single doubt.


So why should be get a "pass" when there are rules and laws that others are Filing EVERYDAY and legally waiting patiently for their turn. MORE so they sign similar letters acknowledging their support for their immigrating family members. Why is it wrong to follow the laws of the land you are trying to migrate too. And why is it wrong for the land that allows legal migration to have some type of qualification to its migration policy.


We have LOTS of rules on the books already.... problem is some dont care, some dont enforce and some find ways around it.... enforce what we got now....dont like it, dont come?
 
Nothing substantive to add then (and a barely intelligible post at that). Cool. You couldn't have even read the first article in 3 minutes, but you do you.

it was 4 minutes and I was on topic....Bernie turns hard left in face of Pelosi warning of going too:2wave: far left.
 
it was 4 minutes and I was on topic....Bernie turns hard left in face of Pelosi warning of going too:2wave: far left.

It is really a "left" position to oppose an overblown, over budgeted, federal government bureaucratic nightmare of an agency such as ICE?

Remember, their large budget mainly depends on illegal immigrants. Now if they want more money, which why wouldn't they, isn't it to that agency's best interest to keep the money coming in by keeping the immigrants flowing?

Funny, I always think of Conservatives of people who fight for smaller government and the Constitution but for some reason they defend ICE which has been known to break the Constitution and is a large federal government agency. Gee, I wonder why...
 
It is really a "left" position to oppose an overblown, over budgeted, federal government bureaucratic nightmare of an agency such as ICE?
Can you name another
'overblown, over budgeted, federal government bureaucratic nightmare of an agency' that the left opposes? Me either.
 
Sanders''' immigration plan: Halt deportations, abolish ICE, welcome 50K '''climate migrants,''' give welfare to all | Fox News

"As president, Sanders also would decriminalize illegal border crossings, making it a civil violation.*. . .

"Part of that plan includes breaking up both Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and Customs and Border Protection (CBP) -- the two main agencies involved on the ground in enforcing immigration law in both communities and at the border. Matters to do with deportation and enforcement would return to the Department of Justice, customs matters to the Treasury and naturalization and citizenship*to the State Department.

"For those immigrants, illegal or not, who are in the country, Sanders accelerates the sometimes-cautious calls by the 2020 Democratic field to include illegal immigrants in welfare programs and other government services such as health care. Under Sanders, everything is on the table for everyone in the country regardless of immigration status. . . .

"Sanders promises that both his “Medicare-for-all” and “College-for-all” plans would be available regardless of immigration status. He also wants to include free universal school meals -- breakfast, lunch, dinner (and snacks) -- regardless of immigration status."

-----

I like most of Sanders's plan, but these 3 items are going to be problems for him. The first 2 are just issues of messaging, but Democrats are notoriously incompetent with messaging.

Conservatives make decriminalization sound like legalization. Sanders doesn't want to legalize illegal immigration. He wants to make it a civil offense rather than a criminal offense.

Conservatives make it sound like the Democrats want to stop enforcing immigration and customs laws altogether. Sanders doesn't want to just abolish ICE and CBP. He wants to restructure them outside of DHS.

The third item is a bigger problem. I can't think of any good messaging myself that is going to enthuse Americans about providing welfare and other government benefits to all immigrants regardless of their status. Good luck with that one, Bernie.

Here's another source for those who, like me, are dubious of FOX. I'm happy to say that if you read both articles objectively, they say about the same thing.

Bernie Sanders releases immigration plan in 2020 Democratic primary

Open borders and free **** for all. What could go wrong?
 
Can you name another
'overblown, over budgeted, federal government bureaucratic nightmare of an agency' that the left opposes? Me either.

The left, as in Bernie Sanders per the OP, or the left as in the millions of people who lean left?

If you mean Sanders, apparently CBP as well. If you mean the latter, I will get on it to ask every single lefty I can find and get back to you. If you don't hear back from me, it's because those lazy good for nothings won't answer me.
 
Funny, I always think of Conservatives of people who fight for smaller government and the Constitution...

The days of the small government Conservative are over. They're all Big Government, Big Brother, Big Spending, Big Deficit, Big War Conservatives now.
 
It is really a "left" position to oppose an overblown, over budgeted, federal government bureaucratic nightmare of an agency such as ICE?

Remember, their large budget mainly depends on illegal immigrants. Now if they want more money, which why wouldn't they, isn't it to that agency's best interest to keep the money coming in by keeping the immigrants flowing?

Funny, I always think of Conservatives of people who fight for smaller government and the Constitution but for some reason they defend ICE which has been known to break the Constitution and is a large federal government agency. Gee, I wonder why...

For citizens, not non-citizens.
 
I hope not, but if Bernie gets the nomination I would have to vote for Trump. Way to much free stuff in his proposal.
 
Ghost Bernie never had a chance.

He's been haunting the place up since the Hillbots plunged their daggers into him in 2016.

:hm
 
Aloha Nalu *shaka*

The first one...."decriminalize Illegal border Crossings, making it civil" See this bothers me and the Hypocrisy.

Your first offense border crossing is a misdemeanor "essential civil" Its when you are CAUGHT again when its considered an felony. We can give the benefit of the doubt that maybe the first time you got it was negligent or for extenuating circumstance. But when you are caught a second time its a felony.....

Common, you shoplift from a store and get caught the first time. You do it again? Really it should remain a civil case, so after the 6th time and then you kill someone in a DUI or god forbid shoot someone in the back on a pier your illegal status is still civil, it should not have even reached the second time with our CURRENT laws. Thats just ridiculous.

The immigration thing is a complete sham..... There is a lawful way to enter the country. 14th amendment and VISA abuser are no different from illegal border crossing and false claims of asylum. ALL illegal immigration is ILLEGAL immigration. YES my wife is a holder of a green card to which I waited patiently waited in line for all her USCIS docs to be approved (total of 1.5 years before she entered the US), multiple interviews, paid THOUSANDS of dollars for her to finally get here. We happily married, with 2 wonderful kids and a we are simple law abiding citizen to which we file joint taxes and follow all applicable state and federal laws with the occasional speeding on the freeway.

I had to sign a statement of sponsorship/support, to prove I was not on any type of public assistance and through financials I showed I was able to support her without public assistance. What was so hard about it? If it was worth it and YES she is 100% worth it and never would I have a single doubt.


So why should be get a "pass" when there are rules and laws that others are Filing EVERYDAY and legally waiting patiently for their turn. MORE so they sign similar letters acknowledging their support for their immigrating family members. Why is it wrong to follow the laws of the land you are trying to migrate too. And why is it wrong for the land that allows legal migration to have some type of qualification to its migration policy.


We have LOTS of rules on the books already.... problem is some dont care, some dont enforce and some find ways around it.... enforce what we got now....dont like it, dont come?

Aloha kāua, Exactice.

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying. I'm not aware that anyone who matters is in favor of any sort of illegal immigration. Of course people should enter the country legally, but we need to make provisions for people who do not.

The first offense is a misdemeanor, but it is still a criminal charge. That's what Sanders wants to change. The second offense would still be a felony. I think I have all that right.

There are good arguments on both sides of the decriminalization issue. I'm not opposed to decriminalizing because that first offense is rarely prosecuted anyway. All it is intended to do is put non-citizens in our jails for 6 months. For what? As a deterrent? Apparently that's not working if we're worried about second offenses.
 
it was 4 minutes and I was on topic....Bernie turns hard left in face of Pelosi warning of going too:2wave: far left.

Sanders has lived on the far left for decades. Pelosi has no control over him and no one expected his immigration policy to be any different than this.
 
It is really a "left" position to oppose an overblown, over budgeted, federal government bureaucratic nightmare of an agency such as ICE?

Remember, their large budget mainly depends on illegal immigrants. Now if they want more money, which why wouldn't they, isn't it to that agency's best interest to keep the money coming in by keeping the immigrants flowing?

Funny, I always think of Conservatives of people who fight for smaller government and the Constitution but for some reason they defend ICE which has been known to break the Constitution and is a large federal government agency. Gee, I wonder why...

You're thinking about a Republican party that doesn't exist anymore. The new Republican party doesn't stand for anything except Trump. And a little bit guns.
 
Open borders and free **** for all. What could go wrong?

Oh, I should have addressed "open borders" in the first post.

That doesn't exist. It isn't something that anyone has ever advocated. What you're talking about without even knowing, because of how you get your news, is the proposal to decriminalize illegal entry. I did address that.
 
Before ICE, was it 'open borders' policy?

He doesn't know what "open borders" means. No one does. It's a term that Sean Hannity invented to trick stupid people.

Mission accomplished.
 
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