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US citizens killed, kidnapped in cartel shootout in Mexico

OldFatGuy said:
The religious right has notoriously and always rejected and persecuted Mormons. As usual, you own twisted takes on reality trip you as you fall face first into the mud.

No one has ever suggested Crockett and Bowie were founders of Texas. Both were dead well before Texas was separated from Mexican rule. Leave it to you to find an excuse to excoriate your own nation when you have nothing worth saying.
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Ad hom wut?
 
ClaraD said:
These weren't mormons...they are a fundamentalist polygamist offshoot.
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They identify themselves as Mormons. Less we forget, the mainstream Mormons decided to forego polygamy as a prerequisite for Idaho statehood. That all Mormons did not acquiesce does't mean they left the Mormon fold.
 
OldFatGuy said:
They identify themselves as Mormons. Less we forget, the mainstream Mormons decided to forego polygamy as a prerequisite for Idaho statehood. That all Mormons did not acquiesce does't mean they left the Mormon fold.
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they aren't Mormons and are certainly not accepted by the Mormon church. It would be like a Methodist saying, yeah but we are Catholic...no, they aren't Catholic.
 
nota bene said:
At least six children and three women living in a Mormon community of U.S. citizens in Mexico were shot to death Monday and several others were reportedly kidnapped after their convoy came under fire during a brazen daylight ambush believed to have been carried out by gunmen affiliated with organized crime in the country.

Those attacked were members of the LeBaron family, a well known American clan who have lived in the fundamentalist community in the northern part of the country for decades, according to the New York Times. Kenny LeBaron, a cousin to several of the victims, told the Times he feared the death toll could increase.

“When you know there are babies tied in a car seat that are burning because of some twisted evil that’s in this world,” LeBaron said, “it’s just hard to cope with that.”

More than a dozen other members of La Mora — a decades-old settlement in Sonora state founded as part of an offshoot of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints— were missing after the attack on the convoy of three SUVs, a relative told The Associated Press. US citizens killed, kidnapped in cartel shootout in Mexico | Fox News

I just can't imagine the motive here.
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An article I read recently had, among other intriguing information this to say: We should stop thinking of them as drug cartels, and consider them warlords and militias, as they literally run much of Mexico, not just the drug trade but operating as a defacto local-government-by-force-of-arms.

Say No to them about anything, they're liable to take it personally and they are extreme in response.
 
Goshin said:
An article I read recently had, among other intriguing information this to say: We should stop thinking of them as drug cartels, and consider them warlords and militias, as they literally run much of Mexico, not just the drug trade but operating as a defacto local-government-by-force-of-arms.

Say No to them about anything, they're liable to take it personally and they are extreme in response.
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There's a good documentary out on how they came to be which, of course, came about from Drug money. But, yeah--they run the ****show down there. No question about it.
 
ClaraD said:
they aren't Mormons and are certainly not accepted by the Mormon church. It would be like a Methodist saying, yeah but we are Catholic...no, they aren't Catholic.
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There are about a dozen Mormon splinter groups that still follow polygamist lifestyles living in both Mexico and the US. They all pay tithes to the Mormon Tabernacle. This one also. Acceptance of the tithe is recognition of their place in the LDS. Mormons do not have a church, they have a temples and restoration meeting houses. "The Church of Latter Day Saints" was adopted as a ruse to convince Christians they were one and the same, but a different sect. Federal law does not prohibit polygamy, but all 50 states do so except for Native Americans living on recognized reservations, and the Inuit of Alaska. Hawaii approves polyandry for full blood Hawaiian royalty.

You can learn a lot about the Mormons by attending the annual Pageant at Palmyra, in Fayetteville NY, where Joseph Smith was visited by the angel Moroni. At the beginning of every July, it is an amazing sight, along with the intense armed security. The locals see the pageant as good for business, but many local families hold grudges for women kidnapped before the journey west in 1820. There are still polygamous Mormon families living in the region. Increasingly rare, but extant.
 
ClaraD said:
You mean the conquistadors, white men...the Mexican government was ran by Santa Ana, a Spaniard....from Spanish royalty. Remember your white anscestors also stole land from Native Americans, so if someone else comes along, like Russia, and steals New Hampshire or Alaska it is all fair game?
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Yes that is how the world has always worked. If you are big enough to take it and settle it. Spain basically didn't settle Texas which ran all the way up into Yellowstone. They settled Sana Antonio and Nacogdoches and that's about all. Various tribes of Native Americans took land from other tribes of Native Americans. They frequently enslaved members of other tribes. So tell Russia to bring it on if they think they are big enough.
 
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ocean515 said:
The US is not a failed culture. There are American drug dealers.

Are there mass graves in the US? Are beheadings a common occurrence in the US?

Is bribery and corruption part of everyday life for the majority of US citizens?

Do gangs regularly engage in massive shoot outs with government soldiers and police officers in the US?

Have millions of US citizens left the country and illegally entered Mexico or Canada?
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That would be a result of a failed government, not a failed culture. And in the case of Mexico, the source of the problem is American culture. It is the U.S. that bankrolls the drug cartels. Not the U.S. government, but the American people. So Mexico may have a failed government, but if the American drug culture is the reason for the violence in Mexico, and Mexico is simply supplying the demand here, which culture is truly the failed one?
 
lwf said:
That would be a result of a failed government, not a failed culture. And in the case of Mexico, the source of the problem is American culture. It is the U.S. that bankrolls the drug cartels. Not the U.S. government, but the American people. So Mexico may have a failed government, but if the American drug culture is the reason for the violence in Mexico, and Mexico is simply supplying the demand here, which culture is truly the failed one?
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Mexico's
 
OldFatGuy said:
There are about a dozen Mormon splinter groups that still follow polygamist lifestyles living in both Mexico and the US. They all pay tithes to the Mormon Tabernacle. This one also. Acceptance of the tithe is recognition of their place in the LDS. Mormons do not have a church, they have a temples and restoration meeting houses. "The Church of Latter Day Saints" was adopted as a ruse to convince Christians they were one and the same, but a different sect. Federal law does not prohibit polygamy, but all 50 states do so except for Native Americans living on recognized reservations, and the Inuit of Alaska. Hawaii approves polyandry for full blood Hawaiian royalty.

You can learn a lot about the Mormons by attending the annual Pageant at Palmyra, in Fayetteville NY, where Joseph Smith was visited by the angel Moroni. At the beginning of every July, it is an amazing sight, along with the intense armed security. The locals see the pageant as good for business, but many local families hold grudges for women kidnapped before the journey west in 1820. There are still polygamous Mormon families living in the region. Increasingly rare, but extant.
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I don't need to learn about Mormons, my step father was one as is my eldest aunt. I know all I want to know about that 2 bit cult.
 
lwf said:
That would be a result of a failed government, not a failed culture. And in the case of Mexico, the source of the problem is American culture. It is the U.S. that bankrolls the drug cartels. Not the U.S. government, but the American people. So Mexico may have a failed government, but if the American drug culture is the reason for the violence in Mexico, and Mexico is simply supplying the demand here, which culture is truly the failed one?
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He knows you are right, but he will never admit it.
 
SLC said:
Mexico's
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past-month-use-among-adults-50-to-64.gif


Horses being led to water ring a bell?
 
ClaraD said:
I don't need to learn about Mormons, my step father was one as is my eldest aunt. I know all I want to know about that 2 bit cult.
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In other words, you are too close to learn. Closeness does breed contempt.

But they are not 2 bit, with more loot than the scientologists have accumulated. :)
 
lwf said:
Don't care to elaborate on how it is the result of Mexican culture, I take it?
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Didn't think I really need to. Mexico is a narco state the US isn't. Mexico's government is very corrupt and bribery is a fact of life Bribery is uncommon in the US. Drug cartels control large areas of Mexico not in the US.

Mexico's murder rate is 5 times the murder rate in the US.

2017 was Mexico's deadliest year on record, with 31,174 murders recorded, leading to a murder rate of 25 per 100,000 inhabitants in 2017, compared with 19.4 in 2011.
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how many murders a year in mexico - Google Search


In 2018, the US murder rate was 5.0 per 100,000, for a total of 15,498 murders.
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murders per year united states - Google Search
 
ClaraD said:
they aren't Mormons and are certainly not accepted by the Mormon church. It would be like a Methodist saying, yeah but we are Catholic...no, they aren't Catholic.
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They are Mormons and study the Book of Mormon. And they follow the teachings of Joseph Smith.
 
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ClaraD said:
I don't need to learn about Mormons, my step father was one as is my eldest aunt. I know all I want to know about that 2 bit cult.
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Obviously you do because you are misinformed if you think these people aren't Mormons.
 
SLC said:
They are Mormons and study the Book of Mormon. And they follow the teachings of Joseph Smith.
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No they don't...the Mormon church has made polygamy a reason to be excommunicated from the church....so, no, they aren't mormons.
 
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints issued a short statement expressing sympathy for the victims while clarifying that they didn't belong to the mainstream church.

The are their own religion and not Latter day Saints. They aren't recognized by the church. It is the same as calling Methodists or Lutherans, Catholics...they are indeed offshoots of the Catholic church, but they aren't by any stretch of the imagination Catholic.

Their church is called The Church of the Firstborn, they were excommunicated from the Mormon church in the 20s
 
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ClaraD said:
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints issued a short statement expressing sympathy for the victims while clarifying that they didn't belong to the mainstream church.

The are their own religion and not Latter day Saints. They aren't recognized by the church. It is the same as calling Methodists or Lutherans, Catholics...they are indeed offshoots of the Catholic church, but they aren't by any stretch of the imagination Catholic.

Their church is called The Church of the Firstborn, they were excommunicated from the Mormon church in the 20s
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Except they recognize and follow the teachings of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. They are Mormon but not members of the mainstream Mormon church. They ever call themselves Mormons.
 
SLC said:
Except they recognize and follow the teachings of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. They are Mormon but not members of the mainstream Mormon church. They ever call themselves Mormons.
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Hey you can call yourself a "stable genius" too, But that doesn't automatically make you one.
 
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