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House Passes Resolution Formalizing Impeachment Inquiry

:lamo. Right. You libs are nothing but bipartisanship, love and togetherness. :lamo Dude, youre too much

The Republicans today showed they are owned lock, stock and barrel by Donald Trump. They have made a deal with the devil selling him the soul of their party and for everybody who will run with an (R) next to their name. The unpleasant side effects of smelling like sulphur and brimstone is simply something they have made their peace with.

And America and the Constitution be damned.
 
When they start, let me know.

I'll try to remember, but I would hope you're able to figure that out all by yourself. I believe they have some additional subpoenas prepared to go out by next week.
 
Perhaps it was inappropriate. Or perhaps not.
It was definitely inappropriate. NICE is reserved for top-secret sources and methods, not calls with formal leaders. Same with the other calls.

More to the point is that the WB was definitely correct that the writeup was moved to NICE.


Not sure what this even means.
You should, because it's important. It means that Trump was using Giuliani to undermine the foreign policy of the actual government of the United States. It's kind of insane, because as the POTUS, Trump should be able to set the priorities of the State Department. Instead, he thwarted the will of Congress, and did an end-run around his own appointees.


Trump wouldnt be the first president to use a private citizen for some sort of government objective.
It is extremely rare to do so. In fact, private citizens interfering in foreign affairs without authorization is a violation of the Logan Act.


And Trump has said they are wrong. Not really sure he said vs she said as a standard for impeachment.
Again, we're talking about the credibility and accuracy of the WB's reported concerns. He said, and testimony corroborated, that numerous WH staffers were concerned about the call and related events.


Trump segued into the Bidens after talking, again, about that unsubstantiated conspiracy theory that he or his campaign had worked with Russia to fix the 2016 election. Ukraine is somehow mixed up in it.
Again, this is about what the WB reported that Trump pressured Zelensky to
- investigate the Bidens
- look into the Crowdstrike conspiracy theory
- talk to Giuliani and Barr

I.e. his comments on the call were all correct.


And..? We have Biden on tape encouraging Ukraine to "play ball."
sigh

Biden was executing the official policy of the United States government, which was also that of the EU, that Shokin was incompetent and failing to do his job, and thus had to be fired. Trump was pushing Ukraine to interfere with a US election. They're not the same.


Trump can change USA policy toward Ukraine, or any country, if he wishes, for whatever reason he wishes.
Incorrect. There are limits on executive powers, e.g. only the Senate can ratify treaties. More to the point is that it is not appropriate for the POTUS to pressure a foreign nation for his own personal benefit.


Specifically in this situation, he was referring to his concern that the Obama admin had pressured Ukraine re-open its investigation into Manafort.
*bzzt* wrong, there was no mention of Manafort or Obama in the call.


Barr had asked Trump if he could reach out to the Australian government for assistance in the investigation into the origins of the Russia probe....
What are you babbling about?

Again: The WB specifically wrote that one of his concerns was asking Zelensky to work with Barr. The writeup bore that claim out.

Thus, and again... Even if you somehow ignore US law, the US Constitution and intent of the Framers and convince yourself that "the call was perfect!" the reality is that pretty much everything the WB put in his report has been corroborated by the subsequent evidence and testimony.
 
You have not presented a logical argument, or any argument for that matter.

I don't NEED to present one. Both are withholding aid for conditions presented by the President. The same act via prima facie evidence.
 
If he's not removed, Dems are gonna have a helluva time arguing that.....since he was elected, it's been one push or another, if this one fails, I think he's re-elected and it's probably not close.

Not necessarily. All the Democrats have to do is present a compelling case to independents and moderates. Then they remind them that congressional Republicans care more about Trump/the party than the country and the Constitution. Voila. Election won.

Frankly, I'm pretty sure that's the Democrats' game plan anyway. I can't imagine many serious people are actually expecting Trump to be impeached and convicted.
 

the vote the GOP/President want is the one that puts Pelosi's chips in the middle of the table

the one where she has to gamble on winning....

the one where the 30 house seats go up for grabs....


do you all not understand this?

is it too complicated for you?

that is the VOTE that matters....not this bull**** thing that just went through

we keep going round and round....maybe someday you will get...probably not

Ok, whatever. I and like a half dozen other posters have tried to educate you. You're just embarrassing yourself now and I'm moving on.
 
I don't NEED to present one.
Sure you do, you are making claims you are not supporting.

Both are withholding aid for conditions presented by the President. The same act via prima facie evidence.
Well, except that one was a legit and legal condition, while the other was illegal.

D8-jw8WW4AErKk7.png
 
A top National Security Council (NSC) official who listened to President Donald Trump’s July 25 phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymr Zelensky testified to Congress today that he did not believe Trump had discussed anything illegal during the conversation.

“I want to be clear, I was not concerned that anything illegal was discussed,” former NSC Senior Director for European Affairs Tim Morrison testified today, according to a record of his remarks obtained by The Federalis
t.

Morrison testified that Ukrainian officials were not even aware that certain military funding had been delayed by the Trump administration until late August 2019, more than a month after the Trump-Zelensky call, casting doubt on allegations that Trump somehow conveyed an illegal quid pro quo demand during the July 25 call.

NSC Official Tim Morrison To Schiff: Nothing Illegal In Trump-Zelensky Call
 
Then maybe you shouldn't be just using assertion with "Pretty much everything that the first whistleblower was concerned about has been corroborated"
:roll:

Since you missed it, I listed every major point that was corroborated.
 
The integrity of the original person that heard the call doesn't matter? Ok you run with that.

The whistleblower is nothing more than the guy the pulled the fire alarm. Given that there are more than enough witnesses to attest to wrongdoing on the part of the POTUS and certain senior staff, the whistleblower's job is done. He can ride off into the sunset.

The whole point of a whistleblower is to bring wrongdoing to the attention of the appropriate authorities who then do their jobs, taking the issue from that point forward. There should never be a reason that the whistleblower's responsibility has to extend beyond the initial reporting. If it does, there probably is not much of a case.
 
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A top National Security Council (NSC) official who listened to President Donald Trump’s July 25 phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymr Zelensky testified to Congress today that he did not believe Trump had discussed anything illegal during the conversation.

“I want to be clear, I was not concerned that anything illegal was discussed,” former NSC Senior Director for European Affairs Tim Morrison testified today, according to a record of his remarks obtained by The Federalis
t.

Morrison testified that Ukrainian officials were not even aware that certain military funding had been delayed by the Trump administration until late August 2019, more than a month after the Trump-Zelensky call, casting doubt on allegations that Trump somehow conveyed an illegal quid pro quo demand during the July 25 call.

NSC Official Tim Morrison To Schiff: Nothing Illegal In Trump-Zelensky Call

Morrison's expressed feelings are all very well and good, but they're undermined by the fact that he was concerned that the phone call was leaked, and that upper Ukrainian officials were in fact very much aware of the military assistance being withheld.

Regardless, Morrison confirms the charges against Trump, which are that he asked a foreign country to interfere in our election, and that he did so by withholding military assistance. His dubious opinion about the legality of the phone call doesn't change those facts.
 
A top National Security Council (NSC) official who listened to President Donald Trump’s July 25 phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymr Zelensky testified to Congress today that he did not believe Trump had discussed anything illegal during the conversation.

“I want to be clear, I was not concerned that anything illegal was discussed,” former NSC Senior Director for European Affairs Tim Morrison testified today, according to a record of his remarks obtained by The Federalis
t.

Morrison testified that Ukrainian officials were not even aware that certain military funding had been delayed by the Trump administration until late August 2019, more than a month after the Trump-Zelensky call, casting doubt on allegations that Trump somehow conveyed an illegal quid pro quo demand during the July 25 call.

NSC Official Tim Morrison To Schiff: Nothing Illegal In Trump-Zelensky Call

There need not be any illegal acts committed to be impeached. Abusing the Power of the Office is unconstitutional and impeachable.
 
When these hearings are public, I, for one, will quit complaining. Until then, I dont consider secret interviews where one side leaks bits of testimony to be legit. Be honest. If this were republicans doing this to Obama youd be having a fit.

They are called depositions, which by design are not for public consumption. You need to have witnesses on the record without the benefit of knowing what the other witnesses have said. The only "leaks" have been that the opening statements, which were meant for public consumption. If the DoJ had done their job, they would have done the investigation behind closed doors that the Democratic house was forced to do.

The Republicans have already done far worse to a Democrat. If you remember they fundamentally persecuted Clinton, driving an impeachment over a rather trivial matter (lying about something personal) after years of investigating other personal matters and coming up empty handed. The rules of engagement in the 1998 impeachment were less favorable to Clinton than what the Dems are extending to Trump.

Explainer: Protesting Republicans say impeachment probe violates Trump's rights. Is that true? - Reuters
 
"Congressional Republicans have long since stopped defending Trump on the merits since shortly after the White House released a transcript of a July call between President Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. Instead, they’ve sought refuge in increasingly meaningless process arguments. So of course Pelosi agreeing to a formal vote on the rules of impeachment hasn’t stopped Republican complaints about the process. The goalposts will shift once again. No matter what the Democrats agree to, Republicans will complain about procedural unfairness and also refuse to concede the inquiry is legitimate. But how much of Republicans’ unwillingness to hold Trump accountable for his self-dealing is because they're in on it?"How can GOP senators serve as impeachment jurors when they're implicated in Trump's misdeeds? (Salon)
 
It's way worse than Nixon.
 
Morrison's expressed feelings are all very well and good, but they're undermined by the fact that he was concerned that the phone call was leaked, and that upper Ukrainian officials were in fact very much aware of the military assistance being withheld.

Regardless, Morrison confirms the charges against Trump, which are that he asked a foreign country to interfere in our election, and that he did so by withholding military assistance. His dubious opinion about the legality of the phone call doesn't change those facts.

Gosh, I wonder how soon and how vociferously our Trumptastic colleagues will rant about committee materiel being leaked to the Federalist? Crickets will be active.
 
Since this vote was never required, I'm gonna go ahead and guess that the Democrats are just trying to add gravy to obstruction of justice charges. Trump and his attorneys have wrongly claimed that they don't have to satisfy committee subpoenas because the House never "formalized" (whatever that's supposed to mean) the impeachment inquiry. Now Pelosi has even stripped them of that brain dead defense. So Trump can either do what he said he would and give the House its documents and testimony (he won't) or he can continue to ignore the rule of constitutional law and give moderates and independents more reason to support his removal from office (he will).
It's been reported, though I haven't seen it in the document myself, that the resolution gives Trump some specific due process privileges, like having an attorney present and being able to challenge documents and question witnesses. However, Trump in turn has the obligation to provide the documents & witnesses subpoenaed by the Committee, and if he obstructs he then loses the privileges granted in the document.

If that I stated above is indeed true, the Dems put in a very shrewd clause!
 
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It's been reported, though I haven't seen it in the document myself, that the resolution gives Trump some specific due process privileges, like having an attorney present, and being able to challenge documents and question witnesses. However, Trump in turn has the obligation to provide the documents & witnesses subpoenaed by the Committee, and if he obstructs he then loses the privileges granted in the document.

If that I stated above is indeed true, the Dems put in a very shrewd clause!

Yep, Schiff could (and will?) ask for Trump's tax returns and if Trump refuses that "lawful request" from the House then he and all republicants lose any of that fake "due process". This is simply a partisan mess which is wasting ever more time at taxpayer expense.
 
Constitutional duty is fine and good, but Democrats just need to sway public opinion enough to win the election, not to remove Trump via impeachment.

What's special about the 63% number?
Yep. Removal is removal. Whether by impeachment, or by election.
 
Best to ignore partisan SchiffShow.

What’s worse thing that could happen?

Pelosi holds impeachment vote or not.
 
Just a number that I've seen bandied about where it will put a lot of pressure on those on the fence to choose a side.
I am of the mind-set that if the Red Wall of support ends for Trump it will be in one big splash and not a bunch of trickling.
I agree, though, that if he is not removed, the Dems need to argue that he shouldn't be re-elected, that needs to be the messaging.
We shall see.
The bottom fell-out for Nixon at 60%, which coincided with the release of his tapes. I do think your guess of around 60%+ is about right. At that point it would mean strong shifts in the Indies in Purple or light Red states, putting great pressure on GOP Senators in those districts. There's around 8-9 GOP Senators in these kind of states. If the GOP lose 9 Senators to impeaching, the party will be in total disarray.
 
The result of this vote makes it crystal clear that the 2% chance I was thinking applied to the odds that Trump would be removed from office by the Senate, are actually a round zero. No Republicans defected to approve the impeachment inquiry. None. The party is 100% rallied around the president, so, in the Senate every single Republican will vote to dismiss the charges.

Not even Republicans who spoke against the president and are not seeking re-election, voted for the inquiry.

Any already extremely small odds that Republicans in the Senate might see the lights of History and support removal, are entirely and completely gone. Not that this was likely anyway, thus my 2% idea (one in fifty) but, not even. Sad.
 
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