• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

[W:524] Trump approves special ops raid targeting isis leader baghdadi, military says he's dead

WRONG..... But normal for folks who dislike the president!




ian bremmer on Twitter: "This is false. Actual raid took place in early evening—photo was not staged.… "
ian bremmer
‏Verified account @ianbremmer

ian bremmer Retweeted Pete Souza

This is false. Actual raid took place in early evening—photo was not staged.


ian bremmer added,
Pete Souza
Verified account @PeteSouza
The raid, as reported, took place at 3:30PM Washington time. The photo, as shown in the camera IPTC data, was taken at "17:05:24". Dan Scavino Jr.���� on Twitter: "… "
1:04 PM - 27 Oct 2019

I would believe that Trump was not on the golf course during the raid. This would be the normal assumption, and it is sad that we have a president that is so unreliable that so many would believe that he was on the golf course. But of course this photo was staged, in the sense that the people involved were posing for a carefully positioned camera. They obviously weren't paying attention to the raid during this photo op. Either it was already over, or they were more concerned with a photo opportunity than they were about a military strike against the leader of ISIS.
 
I hear you there. I didn't vote for Trump in 2016 and I won't vote for him in 2020 either. I couldn't bring myself to vote for Clinton just to spite him last time. I'm still not committed to voting for any Democrat at all because I've so far always voted for something rather than simply against something else.

Of course, the stakes are higher this time. Trump is not only an existential threat to the US that the world knows, but he's also an abject monster. I'm hoping that the Democrats elevate a candidate that I can vote for and a platform that I can support. I'm still not ready to register with them because I can't stand phone calls and text messages asking for my money and my time for politicians who generally care more about their government jobs than their constituents. I also have been treated pretty poorly by some Democrats for not supporting Clinton and for being on competing sides of various issues.

The Republicans are worse than that, so until either major party decides to welcome independent thinkers and resist demonizing criticism, I'll keep working on a case by case basis.
Yeah Nalu, that's kinda' how I see it - too. I see the Dems as the lessor of the two evils, at this point. But this time around, they have managed to get me excited with the prospect of some better candidates in terms of progressivism and non-traditional candidates.

I have strong ideals, but I temper them with realism. If the Dems ended-up with a Warren-Buttigiec ticket, I'd be all over it. I'd prefer Buttigieg straight up, but I believe he might have a better shot riding Warren's coat-tails into a 2028 run. Until then, Warren would suffice and I suspect do a pretty lot in terms of implementing my ideologies.
 
Serious question, shouldn't ALL politics be on a case by case basis?

Yes, of course, but that's my point. That's not how either major political party works anymore and why I refuse to belong to either of them. They have zero tolerance for independent thought and dissent. Try being a Democrat and telling other Democrats you don't support impeachment. Try being a Republican and saying you want a primary challenge against Trump. They don't allow case by case politics, so they don't allow me to participate the way I want to participate. As a result, they can all go kick rocks and beg for my support every other year.
 
Yeah Nalu, that's kinda' how I see it - too. I see the Dems as the lessor of the two evils, at this point. But this time around, they have managed to get me excited with the prospect of some better candidates in terms of progressivism and non-traditional candidates.

I have strong ideals, but I temper them with realism. If the Dems ended-up with a Warren-Buttigiec ticket, I'd be all over it. I'd prefer Buttigieg straight up, but I believe he might have a better shot riding Warren's coat-tails into a 2028 run. Until then, Warren would suffice and I suspect do a pretty lot in terms of implementing my ideologies.

Might be the only thing we tend to agree on,

I think Warren/Sanders would be the worse thing to happen, their programs, will absolutely bankrupt the country.
 
Yes, of course, but that's my point. That's not how either major political party works anymore and why I refuse to belong to either of them. They have zero tolerance for independent thought and dissent. Try being a Democrat and telling other Democrats you don't support impeachment. Try being a Republican and saying you want a primary challenge against Trump. They don't allow case by case politics, so they don't allow me to participate the way I want to participate. As a result, they can all go kick rocks and beg for my support every other year.

Agree on all of that, but that is society as a whole today, with us/against us, on my side/their side, it's nonsense, and until something happens, it simply won't change.
 
I can only imagine the upheavals of laughter when the world finds out that Private Bone Spurs had this taken after the attack.

The fact he had the photo taken at all and the media published it will still upset Hillary. The left is oblivious to the pain they are causing her in their zeal to post photos of Trump in presidential settings.
 
I think the point is that the Trump photo is posed and was taken after the raid was already over with him in the center posing with a stern look under the presidential seal. The Obama photo was candid, didn't appear to be posed, and was taken in the middle of the raid with the president off center and dressed casually. I appreciate a candid photo of what was going on in the war room during the raid that killed Osama Bin Laden. This makes it a historical photograph. I do not appreciate a posed, manicured photo op taken afterward in an attempt to lend legitimacy to a struggling president who seems to have been on the golf course when the raid began.

It sounds like you are crafting narratives about events you know nothing about. Even if either one was staged (I think both photos from two different eras were staged) Trump certainly knows how to mock his predecessor's photo ops with one of his own making him appear more presidential, organized and intelligent.
 
You and Hillary do seem to think a lot alike on certain topics. Good to see you confessing that you and she are on the same page, especially on matters of religion. Most likely a result of her living rent free in your head for so long.. Hillary REALLY owns you. So does Obama, based on all your posts referring to him.

It's nice to own the losers now that SNL has discarded them.
 
It sounds like you are crafting narratives about events you know nothing about.

I'll grant you that I don't know when the photo was taken and am referring flying rumors about the golf course thing. But I do know that this photo was carefully posed and that while it was being posed and taken, none of the men in the picture were paying attention to any military operation. If it was taken after the operation was over, then this would make sense. If not, then the men present were more concerned about a photo op than the most significant strike against ISIS since 2012.
 
It's nice to own the losers now that SNL has discarded them.

Interesting. How much do you pay Hillary and Barack to live in your head rent free ?
 
I would believe that Trump was not on the golf course during the raid. This would be the normal assumption, and it is sad that we have a president that is so unreliable that so many would believe that he was on the golf course. But of course this photo was staged, in the sense that the people involved were posing for a carefully positioned camera. They obviously weren't paying attention to the raid during this photo op. Either it was already over, or they were more concerned with a photo opportunity than they were about a military strike against the leader of ISIS.
See? Of all the terrible and sad things with the Trump presidency, the bolded may be the saddest.

I often have CNBC on in the background, to monitor the markets. Not long ago, I was watching a segment where Trump earlier had Tweeted some point about making progress with the trade-talk negotiations. Not long after, a journalist at a CCP state paper cited a CCP official as disputing Trump's characterization. Immediately all the guests at the round-table segment I was watching sided with the CCP announcement disputing Trump, with the guests citing Trump's frequent false claims in the matter.

That was when it hit me. Market analysts & traders do their best best to live in pragmatic reality. To do less, will bankrupt you. I ran in these circles for a brief period, earlier in my life. And these guys, my fellow Americans, were quick to side with the CCP's version of the events over the President! Think of that! Believing the Chinese Communist Party over the President, over the White House.

I was sad & angry. Not angry at the traders & analysts. Not angry with the Communist Party. But angry with Trump, for what he has done to us. I was thoroughly disgusted. And still am.
 
I clarified my statement in an earlier post. I'm talking about modern Western states in particular. The tactics that the people you listed used and the reactions they caused in the people they were used against are a big part of the reason we don't use them.

Uh huh. Modern western states gave us the war to end all wars. That failed. Then its continuance with WWII, and its horrors. Then in reaction to those horrors setting up rules of war ignored not only by the rest of the world, but those same self serving horrified powers when inconvenient. Politician may start wars, but they don't get to dictate how they are fought.
 
See? Of all the terrible and sad things with the Trump presidency, the bolded may be the saddest.

I often have CNBC on in the background, to monitor the markets. Not long ago, I was watching a segment where Trump earlier had Tweeted some point about making progress with the trade-talk negotiations. Not long after, a journalist at a CCP state paper cited a CCP official as disputing Trump's characterization. Immediately all the guests at the round-table segment I was watching sided with the CCP announcement disputing Trump, with the guests citing Trump's frequent false claims in the matter.

That was when it hit me. Market analysts & traders do their best best to live in pragmatic reality. To do less, will bankrupt you. I ran in these circles for a brief period, earlier in my life. And these guys, my fellow Americans, were quick to side with the CCP's version of the events over the President! Think of that! Believing the Chinese Communist Party over the President, over the White House.

I was sad & angry. Not angry at the traders & analysts. Not angry with the Communist Party. But angry with Trump, for what he has done to us. I was thoroughly disgusted. And still am.

I don't understand the thinking of people who aren't disgusted by this.
 
I did mean not nuanced....bungled that one up,

My point is, it's complex, everything about it is complex, but the lack of civility is there, and the media are not helping it along, at all, whatsoever.

There used to be a time, when dems, republicans, people, could disagree and not turn to baiting, hatred, blaming, name calling, kinda like your quote there.

That time is no longer here, Trump didn't create it, he's a symptom of it, and he sure doesn't help heal it either, but neither is anyone else in Washington.

People...in general are just tired of the gotcha's, the games, the in-fighting, and that's all Washington is these days.
Agreed,

I'm old enough to remember JFK Dems & Rockefeller Republicans. What I'd do to have them back!
 
Time for photo ops with Trump and all the members of Trump's cabinet solemnly hunkered down around the oval desk while appearing to be plotting the bad guy's demise. It's time to show Obama he is not the only one who can take credit for years-long successful panning and pursuits by the US military hunting down bad guys around the globe.
Please spare us your revisionist history. Obama never took credit for the raid. Here is his speech.

But Donald Trump declared in 2012 that people should stop congratulating President Obama for the killing of Osama bin Laden.
 
Unfortunately there are too many willing to fill his empty shoes. Like roaches they hide in the dark.

True. But capable leaders are rare. Plus it is pointless and too expensive to chase cockroaches into their hiding places. It is best to lay traps and let them come back out into the open with the illusion of safety.
 
Sadly, I think that would be a better solution than letting their ideals infect these children.

I've seen my fair share of kids killed by trying to appease some ideology that they could barely understand.

Its' just an unfortunate truth of war.

Using terrorist tactics won't defeat terrorism, it only fuels more terrorism.
 
Admiral Husband E. Kimmel, Commander of the Pacific Fleet, was playing golf when the Japanese surprise attack began. General Dwight D. Eisenhower was playing golf when he heard the news. Bill Clinton was playing golf when he ordered two missiles launches at Afghanistan, and then completed his game.

Good point.

Trump probably had no idea it was happening and why it was important.

It was like a surprise.
 
Well, that explains why you defend Trump's public support of Neo Nazis.



So so long as a mass murderer saw something bad happen before they went on their murder spree, you think they should get off.

Well isn't that interesting. I'll be looking for some consistency in your position the next time someone goes on a shooting rampage. But somehow I expect your position only applies when it's someone you can identify with doing the killing.

Show me where I said anything defending Trump's supposed comments about neo Nazis, or anything supporting neo Nazis. You are a liar. As dishonest as they come.

I'm all for mass murdering shooters. They give executioners job security. Got any more incipient lies to use when you are out of anything resembling a rational argument?

You are blowing it all out of the wrong hole. You're speaking with a former MP Officer, and a former NYPD Gold Shield. Verbal diarrhea is all you have to offer.
 
Let me try it another way:

This requires ordering an American soldier (who is possibly not even old enough to drink) to deliberately kill children.

War is not for the faint of heart. Your enemy will capitalize on any weakness and exploit any thing they believe you cannot bring yourself to do. Militaries have been setting up anti aircraft guns on the roofs of schools since WW2. At some point the people who support these regimes actions are the ones putting their children in harms way. If someone uses their children as a shield it is they who are endangering their children's lives.
 
Back
Top Bottom