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Chicago teachers striking in nation's 3rd largest district

Luther said:
You seem to ignore that it cost a lot of money for this Teacher pension plan that tax payers pay for?
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You seem to ignore the fact that TIF, rather funding CPS resources as it should be, instead is funding dozens of skyscrapers, luxury condos for the rich, Lincoln yards and fancy basketball stadiums for private colleges.
 
haymarket said:
Not at all. I simply am asking who is it that is legally responsible for maintaining and overseeing the plan?
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Still not quite certain why this matters. If the politicians can't fund the pension enough to cover the promises the politicians made for benefits, there is no way the fund can be maintained. Whoever you think is legally responsible , isn't to blame for what the politicians did.

The only blame is on the politicians (Democrats in Chicago) and potentially the CTU for making demands that can't be met.
 
buck said:
Still not quite certain why this matters. If the politicians can't fund the pension enough to cover the promises the politicians made for benefits, there is no way the fund can be maintained. Whoever you think is legally responsible , isn't to blame for what the politicians did.

The only blame is on the politicians (Democrats in Chicago) and potentially the CTU for making demands that can't be met.
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Let us begin with those who are responsible for the financial health of the fund. Who are they?
 
haymarket said:
Let us begin with those who are responsible for the financial health of the fund. Who are they?
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Democrat politicians in the city, as they are the only ones that can ensure that they are providing the necessary funding to meet the requirements for payout and for using unrealistic, projected rates of return on the Investments.
 
HenryChinaski said:
You have google, you can look up the cost of living yourself. And while they don’t collect SS, they also fund a portion of their own pensions. My colleagues wife is a CPS teacher. This is from him
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Telling me to use Google right after you asked me a question that you could have easily just looked up yourself is pretty pathetic.

And so what that they contribute to their own pensions. Most people that have pensions contribute to their own. And it is still a much much better retirement plan then the vast majority of Americans get. And you do realize that those who get SS have to pay into that as well correct. And that's no where near as good a set up as what teachers get. And you know who also contributes to those teachers awesome retirement that is better then the average American can get. The average taxpayer.
Sorry but trying to use the fact that teachers have to provide some of their own money for their sweetheart retirement plan is not going to gain any sympathy from most people.

The more you use this SS and that teachers have to pay into their sweetheart pensions bit the more I realize you are incapable of looking at this without your extreme bias.

And I hate to tell you this but I really don't care that much about the opinion of an obviously very biased individual who has a very real monetary gain riding on the outcome of this strike. So what your colleagues wife says means nothing to me.

And it's funny how teachers always claim that teacher pay is not the main reason for their strike but yet I can never remember a strike that happened that didn't involve a pay raise as one of the demands from the teachers. Very convenient.
 
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buck said:
Still not quite certain why this matters. If the politicians can't fund the pension enough to cover the promises the politicians made for benefits, there is no way the fund can be maintained. Whoever you think is legally responsible , isn't to blame for what the politicians did.

The only blame is on the politicians (Democrats in Chicago) and potentially the CTU for making demands that can't be met.
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It matters because some here cited a pension supposed shortage as a reason why we should not treat the Chicago teachers demands with any sense of fairness as if that shortfall is their fault.
 
code1211 said:
That is probably true. The factors that contribute to the mental health of children are many and complex.

I have marveled at the differences in the personalities of myself and my siblings who are all very different in how we think and what we value, but we were raised, obviously, in the same household.

Regardless of everything, though, our society has a particular set of kids to educate. We can't simply discard them for a more desirable set. We need to take what we have and make it better.

If we begin with the notion that the best outcome cannot be achieved, we are beaten before we start.

If we begin with the notion that success is possible, then we at least have a chance.

The educational process must occur in the real world. The results will be measured in the real world. The success or failure of our efforts will either benefit or hamper our children's lives as they unfold.

Assuming that failure is the default setting for our educational system seems like the wrong assumption to use as the foundation for the rest of our efforts.
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The problems in these inner cities have been going on for decades and every few years a new politician comes along with the so-called answer and well here we are. The bottom line is that as long as millions of people who live in poverty continue to have many children these types of problems will keep going on decade after decade no matter what new solution politicians come up with. Individual responsibility and making smart choices are the only solution, but that is not the message most politicians want to give nor is it the message that most people want to hear.
 
braindrain said:
The tax base is apparently large enough to support paying these teachers more then 95% out the rest of the teachers in the state.
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That is only because they get a tremendous amount of additional funding from the state. Without state support these inner city districts would collapse.
 
haymarket said:
It matters because some here cited a pension supposed shortage as a reason why we should not treat the Chicago teachers demands with any sense of fairness as if that shortfall is their fault.
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Regardless of who is at fault, the teacher's demands can't be afforded. People want out of this state because of the costs/taxes. The union and teacher's don't care and want their money.
 
braindrain said:
And it's funny how teachers always claim that teacher pay is not the main reason for their strike but yet I can never remember a strike that happened that didn't involve a pay raise as one of the demands from the teachers. Very convenient.
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With public unions it's always about the money. Always.



 
buck said:
Regardless of who is at fault, the teacher's demands can't be afforded. People want out of this state because of the costs/taxes. The union and teacher's don't care and want their money.
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Again, who is it that is responsible for the financial health of the pension?
 
haymarket said:
Again, who is it that is responsible for the financial health of the pension?
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Politicians. Liberal ones. That’s why it’s failing. Math is hard I guess. [emoji2369]
 
HenryChinaski said:
You seem to ignore the fact that TIF, rather funding CPS resources as it should be, instead is funding dozens of skyscrapers, luxury condos for the rich, Lincoln yards and fancy basketball stadiums for private colleges.
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You seem to ignore the fact that TIF, rather funding CPS resources as it should be
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Hey guy?
What political party handles matters in Chicago?(LOL)

Take your time
 
HenryChinaski said:
WTF? You’re against school resources? And yeah since the last mayor closed down 50 schools, many these classrooms have more than 40 students in them
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Show me proof? You also said Kindergartners Again show me proof?

And if they do, I guarantee you there are Teacher aids(Hello)
 
braindrain said:
can you prove to be that all is in the 95% most expensive places to live in the state of illinois.

And you did correct me in anything. I never claimed what priority the pay rate se for teachers was. Just that they are demanding more money.

And again with the silly social security whine. They don't get ss because they choose to not opt out because they have a much sweater retirement plan. Super dishonest to whine about it now.

And you don’t think the left tried it’s very best to put people against each other. That’s hilarious.

And which of my positions do you think makes me right wing. Is it my belief we need free healthcare for all americans. Or that i the near future we need to start looking at the possibility of implementing a universal basic income. Or that what ever two consenting adults want to do is none of my business. Or that we need greater protections for our minorities. Or that we need to stop throwing people in jail for using drugs. Our any of the other left of center positions i have.

And the big difference between the over time police get paid for is that the polices over time is a documented number of pets they are working. Not some made up number like saying the average teacher works 30 hours of overtime a week
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they don't get ss because they choose to not opt out because they have a much sweater retirement plan. Super dishonest to whine about it now.
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bingo!!!!!
 
haymarket said:
Again, who is it that is responsible for the financial health of the pension?
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The Chicago Tax payers are!!!!!

By the way, the latest is that Illinois is the second most state that people are fleeing because why?

Taxes are too HIGH now!!!!!
 
Luther said:
The Chicago Tax payers are!!!!!

By the way, the latest is that Illinois is the second most state that people are fleeing because why?

Taxes are too HIGH now!!!!!
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The Chicago taxpayers do not administer the pension fund.

Who does have this responsibility?
 
Aberration said:
Politicians. Liberal ones. That’s why it’s failing. Math is hard I guess. [emoji2369]
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That is NOT an answer as it names nobody. Who is it that has the responsibility for administering the teacher pension?
 
haymarket said:
Again, who is it that is responsible for the financial health of the pension?
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Again, dem politicans in Chicago for giving in to the teacher's unions demands and not taxing the people enough to fund the pensions.
 
buck said:
Again, dem politicans in Chicago for giving in to the teacher's unions demands and not taxing the people enough to fund the pensions.
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Name them and show proof of your claim.
 
haymarket said:
Name them and show proof of your claim.
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The administrator's can't fix it. If there is too much money coming out due to payments and skimming from politicans and not enough tax payer money going in, it can't be solvent. You are trying to blame someone that may be "legally" responsible, but they have no control over what is impacting the pensions.
 
Cynical said:
The problems in these inner cities have been going on for decades and every few years a new politician comes along with the so-called answer and well here we are. The bottom line is that as long as millions of people who live in poverty continue to have many children these types of problems will keep going on decade after decade no matter what new solution politicians come up with. Individual responsibility and making smart choices are the only solution, but that is not the message most politicians want to give nor is it the message that most people want to hear.
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I assume that inner cities existed when the US was posting test results that ranked US students number one in the world. I could be wrong. West Side Story was a play staged in 1961.

To Sir With Love, Blackboard Jungle and probably others document the plight of the inner city kids trying to swim against the current of circumstance. The US was still ranked at number one in the 60's.

I refuse to believe that parents everywhere do not want the best for their kids. Sending their kids to public school and helping with homework and so on is probably seen by most parents as doing the best for their kids.

If the society provides this as a service to the parents, the society is thus required to improve the service provided.

Public education has become a Socialist nightmare with all of the defining aspects of Socialism: centralized controls, increasing costs, decreasing outcomes and victimized citizens.

Also Socialist is the prescription from the system operators which is to give them more of what they've wasted previously, limit options and trust them.

Taking the same action and expecting a different result is defined as insane. What does that make us?
 
Tax dollars need to be spread out better across the city through the CPS system. Example, Blaine Elementary and Lincoln Park High School are surrounded by million dollar condos in affluent upper-crust neighborhoods. Beautiful schools. completely high tech, Students have proper learning materials and standard resources, access to school counselors and nurses. Whereas grade schools like Jensen in West Garfield Park, a blighted community, the floors are rotting, more than likely there's lead in the water pipes. No learning materials besides the lesson plans that the teachers copy, no computers or standard resources. The other problem is how TIF funds which are earmarked for these blighted communities are redirected through wealthy people's shenanigans to benefit communities and projects that do not need that funding.
 
I totally agree with good teachers being paid more. At the same time teachers that are just drawing paychecks and not really earning their pay need to be rooted out of the profession.
 
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