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China says U.S. must kill all tariffs to resolve trade feud

TU Curmudgeon

TU Curmudgeon

B.A. (Sarc), LLb. (Lex Sarcasus), PhD (Sarc.)
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From United Press International

China says U.S. must kill all tariffs to resolve trade feud
​

Oct. 17 (UPI) -- China said Thursday the Trump administration must lift all tariffs on its U.S.-bound exports if it wants to end the long-running trade dispute, but also indicated it's open to a partial deal.

Beijing's commerce ministry said the moves would be of mutual interest.

"The ultimate goal for the negotiations between the two sides is to end the trade war, cancel all additional tariffs," commerce minister Gao Feng said. "This is good for China, good for the U.S. and good for the whole world."

The United States agreed last week to postpone new punitive tariffs that would've taken effect on Tuesday.

COMMENT:-

For the cynical, that works out to "You can claim a victory over us on the condition that you give us everything that we ask for and we don't have to give you anything that you wanted.".

For the non-cynical, that works out to "You can claim a victory over us on the condition that you give us everything that we ask for and we don't have to give you anything that you wanted.".

For "Claque Trump", that works out to "President Trump has won the greatest trade war victory in the history of the United States of America.".

For Donald Trump, that works out to "See how easy it is to win a trade war! China has capitulated totally and unconditionally! I told you that I was the greatest and I am the greatest!.".
​
 
China adopted the Turkish model. I guess Phase One is on hold?
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
From United Press International

China says U.S. must kill all tariffs to resolve trade feud
​

Oct. 17 (UPI) -- China said Thursday the Trump administration must lift all tariffs on its U.S.-bound exports if it wants to end the long-running trade dispute, but also indicated it's open to a partial deal.

Beijing's commerce ministry said the moves would be of mutual interest.

"The ultimate goal for the negotiations between the two sides is to end the trade war, cancel all additional tariffs," commerce minister Gao Feng said. "This is good for China, good for the U.S. and good for the whole world."

The United States agreed last week to postpone new punitive tariffs that would've taken effect on Tuesday.

~snipped your uninteresting comments~
Click to expand...

Sorry China, it doesn't work that way. We will end tariffs AFTER you make the deal we want. If you don't like that, fine. Enjoy the tariffs...which will be getting worse, btw.

China either doesn't understand, or they are trying to BS people. The ultimate goal for the US isn't to end the trade war. It's to get the deal we want.
 
Mycroft said:
Sorry China, it doesn't work that way. We will end tariffs AFTER you make the deal we want. If you don't like that, fine. Enjoy the tariffs...which will be getting worse, btw.

China either doesn't understand, or they are trying to BS people. The ultimate goal for the US isn't to end the trade war. It's to get the deal we want.
Click to expand...

I Understand that there are current and upcoming vacancies on Mr. Trump's staff. Have you considered applying for them. It really doesn't matter what your background, education, training, or experience is because you have the one absolutely unalterably essential quality that Mr. Trump desires in his advisors and assistants.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
From United Press International

China says U.S. must kill all tariffs to resolve trade feud
​

Oct. 17 (UPI) -- China said Thursday the Trump administration must lift all tariffs on its U.S.-bound exports if it wants to end the long-running trade dispute, but also indicated it's open to a partial deal.

Beijing's commerce ministry said the moves would be of mutual interest.

"The ultimate goal for the negotiations between the two sides is to end the trade war, cancel all additional tariffs," commerce minister Gao Feng said. "This is good for China, good for the U.S. and good for the whole world."

The United States agreed last week to postpone new punitive tariffs that would've taken effect on Tuesday.

COMMENT:-

For the cynical, that works out to "You can claim a victory over us on the condition that you give us everything that we ask for and we don't have to give you anything that you wanted.".

For the non-cynical, that works out to "You can claim a victory over us on the condition that you give us everything that we ask for and we don't have to give you anything that you wanted.".

For "Claque Trump", that works out to "President Trump has won the greatest trade war victory in the history of the United States of America.".

For Donald Trump, that works out to "See how easy it is to win a trade war! China has capitulated totally and unconditionally! I told you that I was the greatest and I am the greatest!.".
​
Click to expand...

**** China... the USA needs to take a hard stance on these ****ers for decades if need be, until China deals fairly...
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
I Understand that there are current and upcoming vacancies on Mr. Trump's staff. Have you considered applying for them. It really doesn't matter what your background, education, training, or experience is because you have the one absolutely unalterably essential quality that Mr. Trump desires in his advisors and assistants.
Click to expand...

Yes. An understanding of his goals and his methods for achieving them.

All others need not apply.
 
If I had voted for Trump. I would be mighty upset with his complete inability to negotiate anything. Since I didn't, I rather enjoy that he is more ineffective on getting deals done than I ever imagined. We need less pointless consumerism.
 
Bodhisattva said:
**** China... the USA needs to take a hard stance on these ****ers for decades if need be, until China deals fairly...
Click to expand...

Unfortunately not everyone defines "deals fairly" as being "no matter what the transaction, the United States of America MUST make a profit and everyone else MUST take a loss".

I do understand that some people do define it that way, but not everyone does.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Unfortunately not everyone defines "deals fairly" as being "no matter what the transaction, the United States of America MUST make a profit and everyone else MUST take a loss".

I do understand that some people do define it that way, but not everyone does.
Click to expand...

That is not what I was referring to...
 
Drawdown said:
If I had voted for Trump. I would be mighty upset with his complete inability to negotiate anything. Since I didn't, I rather enjoy that he is more ineffective on getting deals done than I ever imagined. We need less pointless consumerism.
Click to expand...

He is doing more against China than any President in History (regarding trade inequalities, at least).
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
From United Press International

China says U.S. must kill all tariffs to resolve trade feud
​

Oct. 17 (UPI) -- China said Thursday the Trump administration must lift all tariffs on its U.S.-bound exports if it wants to end the long-running trade dispute, but also indicated it's open to a partial deal.

Beijing's commerce ministry said the moves would be of mutual interest.

"The ultimate goal for the negotiations between the two sides is to end the trade war, cancel all additional tariffs," commerce minister Gao Feng said. "This is good for China, good for the U.S. and good for the whole world."

The United States agreed last week to postpone new punitive tariffs that would've taken effect on Tuesday.

COMMENT:-

For the cynical, that works out to "You can claim a victory over us on the condition that you give us everything that we ask for and we don't have to give you anything that you wanted.".

For the non-cynical, that works out to "You can claim a victory over us on the condition that you give us everything that we ask for and we don't have to give you anything that you wanted.".

For "Claque Trump", that works out to "President Trump has won the greatest trade war victory in the history of the United States of America.".

For Donald Trump, that works out to "See how easy it is to win a trade war! China has capitulated totally and unconditionally! I told you that I was the greatest and I am the greatest!.".
​
Click to expand...


Of course they want all tariffs removed.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
From United Press International

China says U.S. must kill all tariffs to resolve trade feud
​

Oct. 17 (UPI) -- China said Thursday the Trump administration must lift all tariffs on its U.S.-bound exports if it wants to end the long-running trade dispute, but also indicated it's open to a partial deal.

Beijing's commerce ministry said the moves would be of mutual interest.

"The ultimate goal for the negotiations between the two sides is to end the trade war, cancel all additional tariffs," commerce minister Gao Feng said. "This is good for China, good for the U.S. and good for the whole world."

The United States agreed last week to postpone new punitive tariffs that would've taken effect on Tuesday.

COMMENT:-

For the cynical, that works out to "You can claim a victory over us on the condition that you give us everything that we ask for and we don't have to give you anything that you wanted.".

For the non-cynical, that works out to "You can claim a victory over us on the condition that you give us everything that we ask for and we don't have to give you anything that you wanted.".

For "Claque Trump", that works out to "President Trump has won the greatest trade war victory in the history of the United States of America.".

For Donald Trump, that works out to "See how easy it is to win a trade war! China has capitulated totally and unconditionally! I told you that I was the greatest and I am the greatest!.".
​
Click to expand...

I'll reserve judgement until I see what the US response is going to be, but if it's anything but "pound sand my man" then someone got owned and it isn't the country that rhymes with vagina. Since you brought the subject of Turkey up, it is interesting that this is a similar "I'll take what I want, and then we'll talk" position.
 
Bodhisattva said:
He is doing more against China than any President in History (regarding trade inequalities, at least).
Click to expand...

Maybe Vietnam will build a statue in appreciation for all the Apple business he is bringing them from China. He isn't doing crap for Americans, but again I am fine with that. Out standard of living is too high. Making discretionary spending more expensive reduces consumption and pollution.
 
What a lot of people...maybe even including the Chinese...don't seem to understand is that Trump is really taking it easy on China right now with all these tariffs. Trump can go all the way up to 100% on everything. He can forbid any American company from doing business with China. He can even go so far as to de-list all Chinese controlled corporations from Wall Street.

Yeah...lots of people will wail and gnash their teeth...especially Wall Street gamblers...but corporations will abandon China like rats diving off a sinking ship, which is a good description of the Chinese economy at that point.
 
Bodhisattva said:
That is not what I was referring to...
Click to expand...

It most certainly is what Mr. Trump is referring to.

However, I would be most interested in having you share your definition of "deals fairly" with me.

Does it include

  1. doesn't change position once an agreement has been reached;
    *
  2. can be relied upon to actually live up to the terms of any agreement that has been reached;
    *
  3. doesn't lie about the actual terms of the actual agreement that has been reached; and
    *
  4. doesn't blame others for their own breaches of any agreement that has been reached?
 
Bodhisattva said:
He is doing more against China than any President in History (regarding trade inequalities, at least).
Click to expand...

You may be correct.

However there is a difference between "doing more against China and ending up screwing the US" and "doing more against China and NOT ending up screwing the US".

In fact, "doing less against China and NOT ending up screwing the US" is preferrable to "doing more against China and ending up screwing the US".
 
ElChupacabra said:
I'll reserve judgement until I see what the US response is going to be, but if it's anything but "pound sand my man" then someone got owned and it isn't the country that rhymes with vagina. Since you brought the subject of Turkey up, it is interesting that this is a similar "I'll take what I want, and then we'll talk" position.
Click to expand...

The Turks are quite content to let Mr. Trump claim the victory of making sure that they got ONLY 100% of what they wanted rather than the 100+% that they could have had if they had pushed a bit harder.
 
Mycroft said:
What a lot of people...maybe even including the Chinese...don't seem to understand is that Trump is really taking it easy on China right now with all these tariffs. Trump can go all the way up to 100% on everything. He can forbid any American company from doing business with China. He can even go so far as to de-list all Chinese controlled corporations from Wall Street.
Click to expand...

Indeed he could, and that would mean that the companies from the other 180+ countries in the world would step up to fill the vacuum that the total American withdrawal from China would create. It would also mean that half the retail shelves in America would be empty within six months. It would also mean that Mr. Trump would have to impose the same level of "crippling sanctions" on the other 180+ countries in the world that had defied the orders of the President of the United States of America that they sever all economic ties with China. It would also mean that the prices (in the US) of EVERYTHING that was not "100% American" from raw material to end produce would skyrocket.

Mycroft said:
Yeah...lots of people will wail and gnash their teeth...especially Wall Street gamblers...but corporations will abandon China like rats diving off a sinking ship, which is a good description of the Chinese economy at that point.
Click to expand...

Bar Keep - a round of teflutixol for everone.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
You may be correct.

However there is a difference between "doing more against China and ending up screwing the US" and "doing more against China and NOT ending up screwing the US".

In fact, "doing less against China and NOT ending up screwing the US" is preferrable to "doing more against China and ending up screwing the US".
Click to expand...
Then you need to also take into account... "screwing up the USA for a short time in order for the USA to do great later" or "not screwing up the USA for a short time and continuing to have the USA play second economically and hurting the USA for longer".
 
Strike up another win for easy to win trade wars.

Are we tired of winning yet?
 
Bodhisattva said:
Then you need to also take into account... "screwing up the USA for a short time in order for the USA to do great later" or "not screwing up the USA for a short time and continuing to have the USA play second economically and hurting the USA for longer".
Click to expand...

Good point, but Mr. Trump is adamant that he is NOT "screwing up the USA" in any manner whatsoever.

PS - Did you realize that the US would be in one heck of a lot worse position if its trading partners decided to adopt the "We know that what we are doing to __[fill in the blank]__ will screw up __[fill in the blank]__ for a short time, but in the end it will mean that __[fill in the blank]__ will do great later"? The more countries that break out of the "Walmart Syndrome" in their trading relations with the US the fewer countries there are that are as susceptible to "crushing economic sanctions" from the US and that would leave the US with two options:


  1. MUTUALLY beneficial trading relationships with those countries; or
    *
  2. MILITARY force to ensure that the US was the country that reaped ALL of the benefits from the trading relationships.


I know that there are quite a few people who would opt for Option 2. on the condition that the US didn't suffer a single casualty because it employed military force to ensure that the governments of every other country obeyed the dictates of the President of the United States of America but I don't know if you are one of them.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Good point, but Mr. Trump is adamant that he is NOT "screwing up the USA" in any manner whatsoever.

PS - Did you realize that the US would be in one heck of a lot worse position if its trading partners decided to adopt the "We know that what we are doing to __[fill in the blank]__ will screw up __[fill in the blank]__ for a short time, but in the end it will mean that __[fill in the blank]__ will do great later"? The more countries that break out of the "Walmart Syndrome" in their trading relations with the US the fewer countries there are that are as susceptible to "crushing economic sanctions" from the US and that would leave the US with two options:


  1. MUTUALLY beneficial trading relationships with those countries; or
    *
  2. MILITARY force to ensure that the US was the country that reaped ALL of the benefits from the trading relationships.


I know that there are quite a few people who would opt for Option 2. on the condition that the US didn't suffer a single casualty because it employed military force to ensure that the governments of every other country obeyed the dictates of the President of the United States of America but I don't know if you are one of them.
Click to expand...

Peace baby... peace. Dang, I live in New Zealand of all places. :lol:
 
Bodhisattva said:
Peace baby... peace. Dang, I live in New Zealand of all places. :lol:
Click to expand...

Is it true that they let the sheep vote in New Zealand so that the country cannot be accused of repressing the rights of the majority? :beer:
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
From United Press International

China says U.S. must kill all tariffs to resolve trade feud
​

Oct. 17 (UPI) -- China said Thursday the Trump administration must lift all tariffs on its U.S.-bound exports if it wants to end the long-running trade dispute, but also indicated it's open to a partial deal.

Beijing's commerce ministry said the moves would be of mutual interest.

"The ultimate goal for the negotiations between the two sides is to end the trade war, cancel all additional tariffs," commerce minister Gao Feng said. "This is good for China, good for the U.S. and good for the whole world."

The United States agreed last week to postpone new punitive tariffs that would've taken effect on Tuesday.

COMMENT:-

For the cynical, that works out to "You can claim a victory over us on the condition that you give us everything that we ask for and we don't have to give you anything that you wanted.".

For the non-cynical, that works out to "You can claim a victory over us on the condition that you give us everything that we ask for and we don't have to give you anything that you wanted.".

For "Claque Trump", that works out to "President Trump has won the greatest trade war victory in the history of the United States of America.".

For Donald Trump, that works out to "See how easy it is to win a trade war! China has capitulated totally and unconditionally! I told you that I was the greatest and I am the greatest!.".
​
Click to expand...

I mean, for the most part China can go **** themselves. Trump got in over his head with this trade war, it's true. But China was stealing IP and isn't necessarily an innocent actor in this. They did need to be dealt with, but Trump has brilliantly demonstrated that the US alone cannot do it. I do hope that whoever comes in after Trump will keep the pressure on China and also aggregate some help from our allies in pressuring change from China.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
From United Press International

China says U.S. must kill all tariffs to resolve trade feud
​

Oct. 17 (UPI) -- China said Thursday the Trump administration must lift all tariffs on its U.S.-bound exports if it wants to end the long-running trade dispute, but also indicated it's open to a partial deal.

Beijing's commerce ministry said the moves would be of mutual interest.

"The ultimate goal for the negotiations between the two sides is to end the trade war, cancel all additional tariffs," commerce minister Gao Feng said. "This is good for China, good for the U.S. and good for the whole world."

The United States agreed last week to postpone new punitive tariffs that would've taken effect on Tuesday.

COMMENT:-

For the cynical, that works out to "You can claim a victory over us on the condition that you give us everything that we ask for and we don't have to give you anything that you wanted.".

For the non-cynical, that works out to "You can claim a victory over us on the condition that you give us everything that we ask for and we don't have to give you anything that you wanted.".

For "Claque Trump", that works out to "President Trump has won the greatest trade war victory in the history of the United States of America.".

For Donald Trump, that works out to "See how easy it is to win a trade war! China has capitulated totally and unconditionally! I told you that I was the greatest and I am the greatest!.".
​
Click to expand...

it's worked well for every other country Trump has "negotiated " with so far.
 
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