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Pelosi announces House won't vote now on whether to begin impeachment inquiry

Marine Electric said:
how does an old Iron Maiden fan turn into a self-proclaimed conservative?

:confused:
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"If you're a conservative before you're 20, you have no heart. If you're a liberal after you're 40, you have no brain".

That's how...
 
Re: No Vote Pelosi- Not at this Time

Lutherf said:
And there we go...

This is part of the problem. People argue about Trump without addressing the context of his remarks or actions. The "shoot somebody" comment was made during a campaign speech and alluded to the loyalty of his supporters. It was a crass comment and not the kind of thing we expect from politicians but in no way, shape or form was it a suggestion of his intent.
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Then allow me to use my own language rather than someone else's so you can avoid getting caught up on context.

Donald Trump's supporters have no scruples, no morals, and no standards as those things relate to their elected leaders, particularly Trump himself. Your assertion was that Republicans will hold him accountable if the impeachment inquiry produces actionable evidence. I'm saying that that is ridiculous, untrue, and an insult to intelligence.
 
Re: No Vote Pelosi- Not at this Time

W_Heisenberg said:
Even if they were to have a "formal" or "official" impeachment inquiry vote the White House would still refuse to comply with the subpoenas
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And be overruled and forced to comply just as before in the late 90s. the process works. Democrats have a failed argument which is why they refuse to follow the facts or the process.

Thanks for taking the time from your activities of persecution, assault, and theft involving children to respond.

Suspect arrested after viral video shows teen attacked for wearing MAGA hat
 
Outlook said:
How many more investigations do the democrats plan to have. CNN told us they have evidence to impeach following the other investigations. What ever happened to the obstruction charge in the Mueller report?
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According to my understanding, that's what Congress is investigating. Along with the new Ukraine thing, emoluments, and lord knows whatever else.
 
Re: No Vote Pelosi- Not at this Time

Nalu said:
Donald Trump's supporters have no scruples, no morals, and no standards as those things relate to their elected leaders, particularly Trump himself. Your assertion was that Republicans will hold him accountable if the impeachment inquiry produces actionable evidence. I'm saying that that is ridiculous, untrue, and an insult to intelligence.
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I agree with this comment, but I would go further. It's not that Trump supporters have no morals or standards. They do. They are just willing to overlook them to get what they want in policy terms. They've basically become extremists.

Trump supporters recognize Trump's behavior is generally bad, they recognize with respect to this Ukranian scandal that Trump committed an impeachable offense, they just don't care.

They think their political goals are more important than the law, the Constitution, and the future of the Republic. They also perceive their political opponents to be more dangerous to them than what might result from the destruction of the Republican itself. If this trend continues we will certainly have a real Civil War.
 
Outlook said:
How many more investigations do the democrats plan to have. CNN told us they have evidence to impeach following the other investigations. What ever happened to the obstruction charge in the Mueller report?
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There will be as many investigations as there are criminal or impeachable actions on Trump's part.

So if you don't like the investigations then convince Trump to stop committing crimes and impeachable offenses.

You are asking the wrong question.

The question is: When is Trump going to start abiding by the Rule of Law and the Constitution, and by our traditional legal and political values and principles?

The answer is quite simple: NEVER.

That is why Trump must be removed from office.
 
Re: No Vote Pelosi- Not at this Time

W_Heisenberg said:
I agree with this comment, but I would go further. It's not that Trump supporters have no morals or standards. They do. They are just willing to overlook them to get what they want in policy terms. They've basically become extremists.

Trump supporters recognize Trump's behavior is generally bad, they recognize with respect to this Ukranian scandal that Trump committed an impeachable offense, they just don't care.

They think their political goals are more important than the law, the Constitution, and the future of the Republic. They also perceive their political opponents to be more dangerous to them than what might result from the destruction of the Republican itself. If this trend continues we will certainly have a real Civil War.
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You articulated that better than I did and more thoroughly. I completely agree.
 
Re: No Vote Pelosi- Not at this Time

dixon01767 said:
They should take the transcript of the conversation and Schiffs interpretation of it and get on with the impeachment. What more do they need?
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LOL There is plenty more information that Trump is illegally withholding. Like the FULL transcript of that call that was so damaging that it was put on a special server.
 
Re: No Vote Pelosi- Not at this Time

akyron said:
True. We have been trained for many years to expect our politicians to lie to our face and conceal their activities.

Recent transparency these last few years have been pretty different.

This is at least partially why the establishment swamp creatures are going berzerk.

-CBS 60 minutes reporting
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Yes breaking our laws in plain sight is prone to make people worried about what is going on that we do not see. Ukraine has proven that we were right to worry.
 
Re: No Vote Pelosi- Not at this Time

akyron said:
And be overruled and forced to comply just as before in the late 90s. the process works.
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This is how the process works when you have a President who doesn't follow the Constitution. The President could simply comply with the subpoenas without trying to make disingenuous arguments his lawyers know will be struck down in court.

Democrats have a failed argument which is why they refuse to follow the facts or the process.
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This idea you have that Democrats somehow cannot issue subpoenas about these matters without first having some sort of formal vote for an "official" impeachment inquiry is wrong. You need to read the majority opinion last week from the DC Court of Appeals regarding the Mazar case -- you know the one Trump just lost -- as it provides a great summary of the various Supreme Court rulings -- Not a collection of House rules, but actual rulings -- regarding the investigatory powers of Congress:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6467279/10-11-19-DC-Circuit-Mazars-Opinion.pdf

Thanks for taking the time from your activities of persecution, assault, and theft involving children to respond.

Suspect arrested after viral video shows teen attacked for wearing MAGA hat
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I do not agree with political violence. I think people should not be assaulted or have their belongings stolen from them because of their political beliefs, whether they are children or adults.

Also, I do not agree with the idea that Trump supporters should be immune from criticism. Trump supporters have this victimhood mentality. They are not victims. They are responsible for their own actions. Trump supporters should be criticized for supporting Trump. Trump is not a good person. Many of the policies Trump wants to implement are immoral. Much of the conduct Trump engages is in is not consistent with our traditional legal and political values and principles. When Trump engages in conduct like this, and when his supporters back up such conduct, everyone else has an obligation to stand up for what is right. I don't think I or anyone else should apologize for that. The truth is Trump and many of his supporters are bullies. The truth is Trump and many of his supporters are not good people. This is a pejorative, and I understand Trump supporters do not like to be criticized, but is warranted as it is based on their bad actions.

There are lines Trump and by extension, his supporters, keep crossing, and people like me need to stand up and say loudly, "No. You cannot do that. What you are doing is wrong. Stop it."

You guys have a right to fight for your political views and for your own concerns and so on, but you don't have the right to destroy our Republic and its legal and political institutions.

And you also don't have a right to not be criticized for being a jerk. If you are a racist and say and do racists things, people are going to call you out, and deservedly so. You guys feel bad for the media saying you can't say racist things? I agree with the media in that regard. You shouldn't say racist things. Racism is bad. We have to get along with other people. And this requires that racist conduct is not allowed. It's not okay to be a racist. It's never going to be okay. It will always be wrong. And you will always be shamed and ostracized for it. Racism will not be tolerated any longer. You need to understand this. And if you don't agree then you cannot participate in our society. That's the way things are.
 
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Re: No Vote Pelosi- Not at this Time

Nalu said:
All I did was give my opinion on why the Democratic candidates are so pro-impeachment. Most Americans want the investigation, but they don't want a **** show and as history shows us, both parties are capable of turning a lemon into a turd wrapped in burnt hair. If it was up to me, Trump never would have been elected in the first place and would now be spending the rest of his miserable life in exile on Elba. A majority of Americans wanting an impeachment investigation does not translate to a majority of Americans supporting Democrats. If they screw up in 2020 as badly as they did in 2016 (both with the impeachment as well as their eventual nominee), then I'll be voting for a third party again.
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So we can count you as one of those that enabled this disaster of President to get into office and you "hate" him so much you will do it again. Democrats want Trump impeached for the same reason that 52% of Americans do. He is not following the laws of the land and that can never be tolerated in any public official. They work for us and serve at our pleasure.
 
W_Heisenberg;1070756891 The question is: When is Trump going to start abiding by the Rule of Law and the Constitution said:
You so funny. What a hypocrite.
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Casper said:
Sorry but neither trump or the GOP gets to dictate how the investigation takes place and even though trump has attempted to put up a don't testify wall it is not stopping people from telling what they know. Wait for it, the vote will come soon enough, are you in a rush to get trump out of office?
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You got that right. The democrats are in charge and they will do any stupid evil unjust thing they think they can get away with now that they control the House. That is why Schitff and his Schitff-head fellow seditionists are conducting the impeachment trial in secret, not allowing republicans to attend or to call witnesses, not allowing republicans to cross examine witnesses, leaking specially mined snippets from the hidden testimony which are being dishonestly used to promote false narratives, not giving Trump any right to confront his accusers or present a defense in the kangaroo court trial, and so forth. We need to remove these lawless democrat barbarians from office.
 
Re: No Vote Pelosi- Not at this Time

Nalu said:
Then allow me to use my own language rather than someone else's so you can avoid getting caught up on context.

Donald Trump's supporters have no scruples, no morals, and no standards as those things relate to their elected leaders, particularly Trump himself. Your assertion was that Republicans will hold him accountable if the impeachment inquiry produces actionable evidence. I'm saying that that is ridiculous, untrue, and an insult to intelligence.
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And that's the bottom line. That's what Clinton ran on.

For some strange reason a lot of people resent being told that they're awful people because they have a different political view than others. That resentment just might prompt one so accused to vote against the political ideas of their accuser.

Democrat politics has gone from "identity politics" to "personal politics" and that presents a huge problem for them. Sure, they'll get the votes (or at least the acquiescence) of those who feel a need to avoid negative personal perceptions but they won't get traction from others. Heck, there are even those (Tulsi Gabbard) who have begun to question the motives of some of the leaders on the left.
 
Re: No Vote Pelosi- Not at this Time

dixon01767 said:
There is no fuller transcript and it doesn't verify what the whistle blower alleges and that's why you are oh so desperate to dig some more. Maybe another special counsel, 2 years and $30 million more and Im sure youll find something to confirm what you sooooo desperately need to believe.
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Of course there is a fuller transcript and there is plenty more Trump is hiding besides just that. You should explain why hiding documents does not make the President appear to be guilty.

The White House didn’t violate standard procedure for releasing transcripts of calls with foreign leaders; there is no standard procedure, because releasing such transcripts is effectively unprecedented. But a whistle-blower complaint referred to “the official word-for-word transcript of the call that was produced—as is customary—by the White House Situation Room,” suggesting that a verbatim transcript does exist. The complaint also noted that records of the call were closely guarded and kept out of circulation, a claim that has been substantiated by reporting since.

In three places in the transcript, an ellipsis (a series of three dots) is used. That’s typically a marking that indicates where part of a conversation has been removed. The White House says the ellipses represent places where the speaker trailed off or paused, but current and former officials told The Washington Post that standard practice in such situations is to use dashes or “[inaudible]” in such cases.
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Do We Actually Know What Happened on the Zelensky Call? - The Atlantic
 
Re: No Vote Pelosi- Not at this Time

akyron said:
Incorrect. The call ended up being irrelevant regardless.



Evidence Proves Ukraine Opened Investigation Into Biden Four Months BEFORE Trump/Zelensky July Call
October 9, 2019

Ukraine Reopened Investigation Into Biden In March 2019

" I can confirm to you tonight that the Ukrainian government was planning to reopen the Burisma investigation. This was long before the President ever imagined having a call with President Zelensky. In fact, it was before President Zelensky was even elected. This is a significant shift in the factual timeline. This is information that was omitted from the whistleblower’s complaint. Let me tell you what we learned today.

The U.S. government had open source intelligence and was aware that NABU [National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine], an FBI-like agency in Ukraine that fights corruption – in fact, it was started by Joe Biden – that it had reopened an investigation into Burisma, its owner Zlochevsky and unusual transactions in the Burisma accounts in February 2019. On March 28, 2019, the Prosecutor General’s office agreed to that request to open an investigation and they filed a 15-page notice of suspicion alleging that there may be illicit funds that were running through Burisma from 2010 all the way through 2015, that’s important, because Hunter Biden’s on the board for two of those years, 2014-2015. And specifically, that notice of suspicion said they were looking at the possibility that the $3.4 million paid to Hunter Biden’s firm may have been part of the illicit funds that were moving through the company. A month later, in April, the Prosecutor’s Office, open source intelligence again, the U.S. government officials confirming they were aware of this request of another investigative agency in Ukraine for assistance in going through these bank records. That is a significant change in the timeline. It was omitted from the whistleblower’s complaint and the question is, did he not know it or did he exclude it because it didn’t fit the narrative he was trying to write. That’s a question for Congress to answer.

…

There’s another oddity that comes out of the records. If you can put that back up on the screen. These are bank records from Hunter Biden’s firm. Hunter Biden and Joe Biden keeps saying he was getting $50,000 a month. There’s only one thing wrong with that. The FBI raided Devon Archer’s office and his bank records, in an unrelated case in 2016, they show transfers of $166,000 a month and as high as $220,000 in one month going into Hunter Biden’s and Devon Archer’s firm. That’s a lot more than $50,000 and it was one of those things that piqued the Ukrainian prosecutor’s interest into reopening the case in March of 2019. The size of the money was much larger than Hunter Biden and Joe Biden has been saying.

This blows up the Democrats most recent attempt to take down the President. It is just the latest in a series of facts that belie the bogus narrative they’ve spent the last three weeks promoting. At this point, it has to be dawning on, at the very least independent voters, and maybe even some moderate Democrats that House leadership is engaged in a corrupt, vicious, high stakes effort to frame the President."
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LOL Hannity is not a news person and deal exclusively in evidence free conspiracy theories which only loons would believe. The Biden's have been officially cleared of any wrong doing by the Ukrainian Govt. also.
 
marke said:
not allowing republicans to attend...
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not allowing republicans to cross examine witnesses.
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These two statements are false.

If you are referring to the incident that happened two days ago involving Gaetz, Gaetz is not a member of the House Intelligence Committee.

Republican members of the House Intelligence Committee are allowed to attend and ask any questions of the witnesses they want.
 
Outlook said:
You so funny. What a hypocrite.
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Wait, if you're calling me a hypocrite then you are implicitly acknowledging the fact that Trump did break the law and violate the U.S. Constitution.

So, is this a situation of you just not caring he did so?
 
Re: No Vote Pelosi- Not at this Time

ttwtt78640 said:
Just think of Trump as being a whistleblower, who lacked first hand knowledge of Biden's alleged corruption, but felt that the public would benefit from its further investigation. ;)
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That is really hard for me to do.

Your comment, Which even if true - and there is nothing in the way of evidence to say it is - does nothing to clear Trump of his own confession of committing a crime and the cover up.
 
Re: No Vote Pelosi- Not at this Time

W_Heisenberg said:
I agree with this comment, but I would go further. It's not that Trump supporters have no morals or standards. They do. They are just willing to overlook them to get what they want in policy terms.
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It is a little low class to call attention to the body odor of the guy that just pulled a rapist off of you in a dark alley.

It is an American cultural tradition to be fair and balance the merits with the faults.

Democrats have been taking advantage of American citizens since Andrew Jackson.

Visit a barrio in LA or a Dangerous Neighborhood in Detroit.

The locales have quite a bit on common with the plantations run by democrats around 1860.

democratplantation.jpg

Trump Says Baltimore Is A Dump, The Media Freaks Out. Then Came Videos Of Garbage Strewn Everywhere

And as a result:

Trump Supporter Organizes Massive Trash Clean Up In Baltimore

Trump Activist Drums Up Dozens of Volunteers to Pick Up Trash in Baltimore

200 Volunteers Clean 12 Tons of Trash From Baltimore Streets

"I just want the citizens of Baltimore to see [that] we do care. We do give a darn. And at the end of the day, we’re all American and if y’all are struggling in Baltimore and you guys need help, then we’re going to be there for you,” he said.

“I don’t want this to be an anti-Rep. Cummings event. That’s not what this is about. This is about helping our fellow American citizens.”"

And of course the left responds like so..

"One Antifa activist posted the location of the event on Twitter on Aug. 5, calling Presler a “neo-fascist” and accused him of coming to Baltimore “making like … doing a cleanup of the city.”

“Are you going to come help?” Presler responded. There seemed to be no response from the activist."
 
Jack Fabulous said:
"If you're a conservative before you're 20, you have no heart. If you're a liberal after you're 40, you have no brain".

That's how...
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Makes sense. I know people that base their opinions on climate change after that George Carlin bit. A lot of people pledge their allegiance to a political ideology/party for weird reasons like old cliches and low self-esteem. That why we have so many that vote directly against their own best interests.

We are living it - America's Golden Age of Stupid.

:2wave:
 
Re: No Vote Pelosi- Not at this Time

iguanaman said:
The Biden's have been officially cleared of any wrong doing.
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How so? By whom?

In March 2016, Joe Biden threatened to withhold IMF funding from Ukraine if officials did not fire Viktor Shokin, who was then serving as Ukraine’s Prosecutor General. At the time, Shokin’s office was overseeing an investigation into Burisma and its owner, Mykola Zlochevsky. According to Bloomberg’s source, Shokin’s investigation had been “shelved” in 2015, well before Biden’s intervention, and “[t]here was no pressure from anyone from the U.S. to close cases against Zlochevsky.” Various outlets seized on the report to dismiss coverage of the Biden scandal:


  • PolitiFact: “It’s not even clear that the company was actively under investigation”
  • Axios: “Ukrainian official knocks down Biden conflict scandal”
  • New York Magazine: “The investigation into Burisma was dead long before Biden started his campaign to oust Shokin”

The claims are contradicted by Burisma’s own attorney. John D. Buretta, an American attorney representing Burisma at the time, was interviewed by the Kyiv Post in 2017. Buretta described the cases against Zlochevsky as extending well into 2016, fitting the timeline reported by The Hill and the New York Times.
“In August 2014, the Office of the Prosecutor General (PGO) opened a criminal proceeding,” Buretta claimed, “Over the two years the PGO matter was open, no evidence was presented supporting any claim that Mr. Zlochevskyy had abused his position while in public office. In September 2016, the Pechersk District Court of the City of Kyiv concluded that no criminal procedures should be taken against Mr. Zlochevsky.”
The case’s dismissal ultimately came under Yuriy Lutsenko, who replaced Shokin as Prosecutor General in May 2016, after Biden’s threat to withhold $1 billion in IMF funding.
Buretta has his own ties to the Obama administration. He served as Deputy Assistant Attorney General under Eric Holder before going into private practice in 2013. Later, Hunter Biden helped recruit Buretta to Burisma’s legal defense team. In the same interview with the Kyiv Post, Buretta said that he joined Burisma “on the recommendation of other highly-regarded U.S. advisers…and Burisma’s distinguished Board of Directors,” which included, at the time, Hunter Biden.
Burisma appointed Hunter Biden and his business partner, Devon Archer, to its Board of Directors in 2014, shortly after the Maidan revolution. Documents obtained by the Government Accountability Institute show that Burisma paid $3.1 million to an account tied to Hunter Biden’s businesses over a 14-month period. Biden, who was responsible for overseeing legal and compliance issues for Burisma, claims that he had no role in the investigation into Burisma and never spoke about it with his father.
The scandal around Zlochevsky and Burisma dates back to his time as Minister of Ecology and Natural Resources minister under Viktor Yanukovych, who was ousted as President during the 2014 revolution. Burisma, whose ownership was unknown at the time, obtained its key assets through a non-public auction process during Zlochevsky’s tenure. Zlochevsky’s involvement with Burisma was not revealed to the public until after he stepped down from his post.
Geoffrey Pyatt, then US ambassador to Ukraine, singled out Zlochevsky’s case as an especially egregious case of mismanagement in 2015, calling for closer scrutiny the prosecutors who handled the case. Joe Biden claims that his pressure on Shokin was in line with this criticism. Yet Biden’s intervention appears to have been, at best, ineffective in increasing scrutiny on Zlochevsky. At worst, as Buretta’s claims indicate, it may have been an extension of that same corruption.

Newly appointed Anti-Corruption Prosecutor
 
marke said:
You got that right. The democrats are in charge and they will do any stupid evil unjust thing they think they can get away with now that they control the House. That is why Schitff and his Schitff-head fellow seditionists are conducting the impeachment trial in secret, not allowing republicans to attend or to call witnesses, not allowing republicans to cross examine witnesses, leaking specially mined snippets from the hidden testimony which are being dishonestly used to promote false narratives, not giving Trump any right to confront his accusers or present a defense in the kangaroo court trial, and so forth. We need to remove these lawless democrat barbarians from office.
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There is no trial at this point, just an investigation, and those being investigated do not get to question the Investigators or witnesses, that is how the system works whether we like it or not. Now if charged are filed and presented for a House vite then trump and those involved can present their case. Right now it is not at that point.
 
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