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Kurds reach deal with Damascus amid escalating Turkish offensive

ElChupacabra said:
That all depends on the level of involvement, which of course, doesn't always involve a purely US military solution. What Turkey is doing is not a solution either, and with Syrian government forces now helping the Kurds, it's likely their "peace zone" isn't going to be sustainable either.
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I think that anyone trying to sell this as "we're getting out of the region and won't be involved in the future" are just regurgitating propaganda. If anything, I think this move paves the way for increased military interventionism in the future. Russia and Iran having free reign of Syria will undoubtedly come back to haunt us and draw us into additional conflicts.
 
Napoleon said:
That’s kind of like asking if all Russians were communists under Stalin. It doesn’t really matter. The PKK runs the show and anyone who disagrees ends up dead.
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But the PKK does not run things, the Kurds are not ruled by the PKK. In fact they are not even ruled by one force, different groups of Kurds are governed by different entities. The only thing they share is a desire for a Kurdish nation state or at least recognition of rights and autonomy.

What is the KRG to you?
 
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Ikari said:
I think that anyone trying to sell this as "we're getting out of the region and won't be involved in the future" are just regurgitating propaganda. If anything, I think this move paves the way for increased military interventionism in the future. Russia and Iran having free reign of Syria will undoubtedly come back to haunt us and draw us into additional conflicts.
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And it's not entirely honest either since the US is sending troops to Saudi Arabia.
 
ElChupacabra said:
And do you think what Turkey is doing will be a long term sustainable solution?
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That depends on the problem - and there’s more than one. The PKK, an internationally recognized Kurdish terrorist organization is the first problem. Turkey’s incursion could be a long term sustainable solution to that problem, but it’s too early to tell. The second is ISIS but I don’t think it really matters that Kurds are setting them loose by abandoning their posts at prison camps because regardless of who eventually wins none of the players in this proxy war will tolerate their existence. What we can say for sure is that Kurdish guarded open air prison camps were obviously not a long term sustainable solution.
 
Carjosse said:
But the PKK does not run things, the Kurds are not ruled by the PKK. In fact they are not even ruled by one force, different groups of Kurds are governed by different entities. The only thing they share is a desire for a Kurdish nation state or at least recognition of rights and autonomy.
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What they share is that they immigrate to a country and violently try to carve out their own State from it. The PKK is present in all of those countries. The fighters they use in Turkey are recruited from Kurdish populations all over the Middle East. They’re not entitled to invading country after country with the goal of carving up the Middle East like a Christmas ham. Especially when they try to do so through terrorism. People, including me, criticize Israel for using settlements as a pretext for annexation. The Kurds should not be immune from criticism for doing the same thing and blowing people up in the process.
 
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Napoleon said:
What they share is that they immigrate to a country and violently try to carve out their own State from it. The PKK is present in all of those countries. The fighters they use in Turkey are recruited from Kurdish populations all over the Middle East.
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The Kurds have been in what is now Turkey since the Middle Ages. The Kurds have a right to be there it is their home. They should have the same rights including the right to self-determination as anyone else something Turkey has denied them since its very inception. The PKK is what happens when you brutally repress a population.
 
Carjosse said:
The Kurds have been in what is now Turkey since the Middle Ages. The Kurds have a right to be there it is their home. They should have the same rights including the right to self-determination as anyone else something Turkey has denied them since its very inception. The PKK is what happens when you brutally repress a population.
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This isn’t just about Turkey. The Kurds are a recipe for civil war wherever they go. The Kurds do not have a right to blow people up in their bid for carving out an independent Communist State from Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Syria or anywhere else they’ve settled for that matter. Self-determination is not a license for murder, drug trafficking, and crimes against humanity. You might as well be arguing that the Confederates had the right not only to start but also win the Civil War in the spirit of self determination.
 
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Napoleon said:
The Kurds do not have a right to blow people up in their bid for carving out an independent Communist State from Turkey.
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So why brutally opress Kurds and give the PKK its purpose? Why attack and massacre innocent Kurds who have nothing to do with the PKK?
 
Mycroft said:
LOL!!

So you are exaggerating? "18,000"? "released"

Not according to that link you presented.



Less than 1,000...not 18,000. Escaped...not released.

Do you see now why you get dismissed so often by me?

You are dismissed. (see my sig)
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Like I said, it’s one of about a dozen, and growing now.

I know why you “dismiss” me.

It’s almost always when one of your trite talk radio one liners falls on its face.

You’re getting a lot of practice at that these days. It’s part of the job when you’re a Trumpster.
 
Napoleon said:
That depends on the problem - and there’s more than one. The PKK, an internationally recognized Kurdish terrorist organization is the first problem. Turkey’s incursion could be a long term sustainable solution to that problem, but it’s too early to tell. The second is ISIS but I don’t think it really matters that Kurds are setting them loose by abandoning their posts at prison camps because regardless of who eventually wins none of the players in this proxy war will tolerate their existence. What we can say for sure is that Kurdish guarded open air prison camps were obviously not a long term sustainable solution.
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None of the issues you described will be remedied by this Turkish incursion. The Syrians are not sitting by while the Turks perform a land grab, and now one has to wonder what other support the PKK will get to help fight the Turks. Now that Syria/Turkey relations are officially in the toilet, who knows how much worse it will get. Also, the Kurds have bigger fish to fry now that Turkey has invaded, so between guarding a prison and your home town, it's not a hard decision to make. Turkey's incursion isn't going to last either and will now be a focal point for the PKK.
 
Carjosse said:
So why brutally opress Kurds and give the PKK its purpose? Why attack and massacre innocent Kurds who have nothing to do with the PKK?
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What the Turks did to the Kurds in terms of cultural suppression does not justify what the PKK has done in Turkey, Europe, and all over the Middle East. Just as nothing the US has done justified 9/11. What innocent Kurds are being “attacked and massacred?” Do you have a source?
 
Napoleon said:
What the Turks did to the Kurds in terms of cultural suppression does not justify what the PKK has done in Turkey, Europe, and all over the Middle East. Just as nothing the US has done justified 9/11. What innocent Kurds are being “attacked and massacred?” Do you have a source?
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This whole invasion is killing innocent Kurds for no more than the fact they are Kurds. If Turkey did not oppress the Kurds, the PKK would cease to exist as a terrorist organization.
 
Carjosse said:
This whole invasion is killing innocent Kurds for no more than the fact they are Kurds. If Turkey did not oppress the Kurds, the PKK would cease to exist as a terrorist organization.
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Sounds like an accusation without evidence. Terrorism cannot be justified and you’re naive if you think capitulation to a terrorist organization would result in its dissolution.
 
Mycroft said:
Oh...so you would have rather leave those 50 soldiers there to get killed...for what? So we could go to war with Turkey?

The fact is undeniable. Turkey was going to attack. They were making preparations for months.
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They've had years to do it, and purely by coincidence started the same day that Trump ordered the troops to pull out? Come on.
 
Napoleon said:
Well, according to reports I’ve heard on NPR, Kurdish guards are abandoning their posts at ISIS prison camps to go fight the Turks and ISIS fighters are just walking out. But so what. They’re dead men walking no matter who wins in Syria.
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Why would that be.

Both sides would be happy to be rid of them. They’ll go back to being a nuisance in western Iraq.
 
Deuce said:
They've had years to do it, and purely by coincidence started the same day that Trump ordered the troops to pull out? Come on.
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They’ve obviously been waiting in the wings for a long time and their only impediment was the fact that US troops were embedded with the Kurdish terrorists.
 
Deuce said:
They've had years to do it, and purely by coincidence started the same day that Trump ordered the troops to pull out? Come on.
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Don’t count on that. There isn’t a rationalization that Trumpsters won’t stoop to!
 
Napoleon said:
Sounds like an accusation without evidence. Terrorism cannot be justified and you’re naive if you think capitulation to a terrorist organization would result in its dissolution.
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How is giving the Kurds equal rights "capitulating to terrorists"? Why are the Kurds not deserving of the same rights as other people?

The invasion is proof, these are not PKK forces they are attacking, they are Syrian Kurdish communities. They have every right to defend themselves.
 
Carjosse said:
How is giving the Kurds equal rights "capitulating to terrorists"? Why are the Kurds not deserving of the same rights as other people?
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The Kurds are demanding independence not equal rights within Turkey. And yeah, the response to blowing people up, recruiting child soldiers, and funding it with drug trafficking is not to give it to them. They have no right to an independent State.

Carjosse said:
The invasion is proof, these are not PKK forces they are attacking, they are Syrian Kurdish communities. They have every right to defend themselves.
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LOL.
 
TomFitz said:
Why would that be.

Both sides would be happy to be rid of them. They’ll go back to being a nuisance in western Iraq.
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Did you imagine the Kurds would be guarding camps of free-range ISIS fighters for the rest of their natural lives?
 
Napoleon said:
The Kurds are demanding independence not equal rights within Turkey. And yeah, the response to blowing people up, recruiting child soldiers, and funding it with drug trafficking is not to give it to them. They have no right to an independent State.



LOL.
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The Kurds are not the PKK. If they had equal rights, including the right to self-determination, there would be no purpose for the PKK to exist.
 
Napoleon said:
Did you imagine the Kurds would be guarding camps of free-range ISIS fighters for the rest of their natural lives?
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No, I never did.

But then, I didn’t expect them to be freed suddenly because Turkey launches and ethnic cleansing exercise, with the tacit by your leave of Donald Trump (or any US President) either.
 
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