• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Officer kills woman inside her Texas home after welfare call

Kreton said:
I see a "YES".

Let's not care about the ramblings you are whining about in the rest of the post because it is irrelevant since not a single person in this entire thread is even suggesting that he shouldn't get a trial.

So by your own words you think she is justified if she was holding a gun.

Try to answer these questions here.

If a random stranger you believe is breaking into your home demands you to put down the gun are you obligated to do it?

Is it a crime to have your door open?
Click to expand...

There are unanswered questions and a lack of arguments in the cop's defense, which is exactly why these cases should not be decided in lynch mob kangaroo courts conducted by street gangs.
 
Aberration said:
Enough details already have come out.
Click to expand...

Enough for what? To go ahead and send him to prison without a trial? To execute him? To send other cops to prison for being white or cops? What is the point of condemning him without a trial?
 
marke said:
There are unanswered questions and a lack of arguments in the cop's defense, which is exactly why these cases should not be decided in lynch mob kangaroo courts conducted by street gangs.
Click to expand...

Doesn't answer my questions.


If a random stranger you believe is breaking into your home demands you to put down the gun are you obligated to do it?

Is it a crime to have your door open?
 
Thanks to @Kreton for posting links to the latest developments in the story along with the body cam footage.

After watching the footage, it's obvious to me that Mr. Dean panicked and fired when Ms. Jefferson's appearing in the window surprised him. I feel for him, but it was clearly a bad shoot. He needs to be convicted and serve hard time.

Like many here, I resent the fact that the Jeffersons (being spurred on by their lawyer, no doubt) are blaming the police department, officer training, and "the system" for the egregious error of one man. "The system" isn't responsible for every rash decision an officer makes. The tragedy is bad enough without people leveraging it for political causes or as an unfair indictment of an entire police force.
 
COTO said:
Thanks to @Kreton for posting links to the latest developments in the story along with the body cam footage.

After watching the footage, it's obvious to me that Mr. Dean panicked and fired when Ms. Jefferson's appearing in the window surprised him. I feel for him, but it was clearly a bad shoot. He needs to be convicted and serve hard time.

Like many here, I resent the fact that the Jeffersons (being spurred on by their lawyer, no doubt) are blaming the police department, officer training, and "the system" for the egregious error of one man. "The system" isn't responsible for every rash decision an officer makes. The tragedy is bad enough without people leveraging it for political causes or as an unfair indictment of an entire police force.
Click to expand...

There have been enough similar incidents where police have killed innocent people in recent years to warrant questioning police use of force training.

The Jefferson’s lawyer is no doubt laying ground work for a civil suit but pinning some of the blame in the officer’s training and supervision is entirely appropriate and likely accurate. In the private sector employers are held accountable for the actions of their employees when exercising their job responsibilities. Same holds for cops.
 
marke said:
You are right, he is charged with manslaughter. Now we should allow the defense to put together its case and avoid the temptation to join the racist mobs who have already condemned the guy because he is a white cop. The bad thing about this case is the way racist cop haters are using it to fan the flames of black and liberal racist bigoted hatred for cops in general.
Click to expand...

As I understand it he’s charged with both. Manslaughter would give the jury something to convict if they decide his actions don’t rise to the level of murder. Or perhaps the DA is contemplating a plea deal though I’d guess that wouldn’t sit well with many people.

I’ve honestly not seen much in the way of racist rants in this thread though I admit to not reading every post.

However the case ends though it’s indisputable that a completely innocent woman who shouldn’t have died is dead at the hands of an agent of the state. That happens far too often and something needs to be done to fix it.
 
Aberration said:
Not always. People are charged all the time in self defense. Crimes are charged in war.
Click to expand...

I didn't say they weren't.

Self-defense when proven is still legal homicide. Killing your enemy on the battlefield is still legal homicide.
 
Gaius46 said:
There have been enough similar incidents where police have killed innocent people in recent years to warrant questioning police use of force training.

The Jefferson’s lawyer is no doubt laying ground work for a civil suit but pinning some of the blame in the officer’s training and supervision is entirely appropriate and likely accurate. In the private sector employers are held accountable for the actions of their employees when exercising their job responsibilities. Same holds for cops.
Click to expand...
There are literally thousands of officers in that single department, responding to tens of thousands of calls. "Questioning" training is acceptable so long as it acknowledges that inquiries come with steep costs and often make bad recommendations. Furthermore, it must acknowledge that even with the best training in the world, there is a statistical floor on the number of bad shoots and that this floor is not zero. People make mistakes and exercise poor judgment. You can't train this out of 100% of people 100% of the time.

In this case in particular, all the evidence and even the police chief's own testimony point to the fact that officer Dean was not following his training. That's not the trainers' fault, or the training's fault, or the police chief's fault, or the fault of anyone other than Mr. Dean.
 
TamleeB said:
I just saw this on the news. Not sure where this goes from here...
Click to expand...

It's going to be damn hard to charge him with murder. It destroys the narrative created by the anti-coppers.
 
Acadia said:
Given this, I wonder why the officer was so quickly fired (or did he resign?) and charged with murder. Why is the first we're hearing of this coming from the 8-year old and not the officer or his attorney?
Click to expand...

Who would have believed him?
 
Acadia said:
Given this, I wonder why the officer was so quickly fired (or did he resign?) and charged with murder. Why is the first we're hearing of this coming from the 8-year old and not the officer or his attorney?
Click to expand...

There seems to be some very odd issues with this case. Hopefully, the truth will come out.
 
TamleeB said:
I just saw this on the news. Not sure where this goes from here...
Click to expand...

You have a right to protect yourself and property from intruders here in Texas, by not identifying himself the officer put himself in the roll of an intruder. A point many seem to forget, when it is dark outside and inside it is light the person outside can see in with ease, while person inside really cannot see the person outside unless they are right up by the window itself. This ex-officer made several very serious errors, the first being to not announce and identify themselves which in turn lead to the death of a woman sitting in her own livingroom.
 
Casper said:
You have a right to protect yourself and property from intruders here in Texas, by not identifying himself the officer put himself in the roll of an intruder. A point many see to forget, when it is dark outside and inside it is light the person outside can see in with ease, while person inside really cannot see the person outside unless they are right up by the window itself. This ex-officer made several very serious errors, the first being to not announce and identify themselves which in turn lead to the death of a woman sitting in her own livingroom.
Click to expand...

A cop has a right to defend himself.
 
Casper said:
You have a right to protect yourself and property from intruders here in Texas, by not identifying himself the officer put himself in the roll of an intruder. A point many see to forget, when it is dark outside and inside it is light the person outside can see in with ease, while person inside really cannot see the person outside unless they are right up by the window itself. This ex-officer made several very serious errors, the first being to not announce and identify themselves which in turn lead to the death of a woman sitting in her own livingroom.
Click to expand...

I am not saying the officer was innocent in all of this. I am just shocked that this new fact is just coming out now.
 
Casper said:
You have a right to protect yourself and property from intruders here in Texas, by not identifying himself the officer put himself in the roll of an intruder. A point many seem to forget, when it is dark outside and inside it is light the person outside can see in with ease, while person inside really cannot see the person outside unless they are right up by the window itself. This ex-officer made several very serious errors, the first being to not announce and identify themselves which in turn lead to the death of a woman sitting in her own livingroom.
Click to expand...

Yep, and to use deadly force in self-defense, under Texas law, the alleged attack can't have been provoked by the shooter. That was what doomed the "whoops, wrong apartment" shooter's self-defense (blame the victim?) claim to failure.
 
marke said:
I see no point in trying this case outside of court and absent any arguments for the defense. The officer cannot be found guilty outside of the courtroom so efforts to condemn him in the streets can only provide support to biased racist bigots who promote the dummass idea that all cops are evil. That is a devil's lie and is doing great damage to America and should be stopped.
Click to expand...

This is a discussion board. We discuss current events. If you don't want to discuss this topic, there are others.

I see very few people bringing race into this particular discussion. (Mostly those asking why they even brought up race). Very few 'anti cop' people. So no, that's not an issue this time. It was an overly aggressive cop who made a series of poor decisions. If you want to transition to a bigger picture, you could certainly talk about the poor state of training an support for our police officers.
 
marke said:
What is silly is using this case as fodder for cop-hating bigots to condemn all cops.
Click to expand...

That's not happening.

marke said:
It is no wonder that democrats are trying to condemn and impeach Trump behind closed doors since they have proven to be enemies of truth, righteousness and justice. They are like Nazis with no interest in giving their accused any opportunity of having a fair and open trial. The House has been turned into a kangaroo court conducted in darkness by the wicked lawless Adam Schitff for his personal political reasons in violation of the Constitution, American law and void of any respect for the American people.
Click to expand...

This statement has absolutely no relation to this thread.

I would suggest backing up, and trying to stay focused on this specific incident.
 
COTO said:
Thanks to @Kreton for posting links to the latest developments in the story along with the body cam footage.

After watching the footage, it's obvious to me that Mr. Dean panicked and fired when Ms. Jefferson's appearing in the window surprised him. I feel for him, but it was clearly a bad shoot. He needs to be convicted and serve hard time.

Like many here, I resent the fact that the Jeffersons (being spurred on by their lawyer, no doubt) are blaming the police department, officer training, and "the system" for the egregious error of one man. "The system" isn't responsible for every rash decision an officer makes. The tragedy is bad enough without people leveraging it for political causes or as an unfair indictment of an entire police force.
Click to expand...

They are doing this for a couple of reasons. 1) when they file a civil suit, and they will, it will be against the city for a lack of training and support. Their first witness will probably be the officer. 2) To a large extent, they are right. This officer obviously wasn't prepared for what should have been a routine call, and made a series of poor decisions. This was avoidable - no question.
 
Casper said:
You have a right to protect yourself and property from intruders here in Texas, by not identifying himself the officer put himself in the roll of an intruder. A point many seem to forget, when it is dark outside and inside it is light the person outside can see in with ease, while person inside really cannot see the person outside unless they are right up by the window itself. This ex-officer made several very serious errors, the first being to not announce and identify themselves which in turn lead to the death of a woman sitting in her own livingroom.
Click to expand...

Single woman with an 8-year old inside, I can easily see fearing for her safety and getting her gun for protection. Still, I wonder why the murder charge without fully investigating.
 
The argument for a small number of people in this thread:

They can commit crimes, leave guns and ammo laying around their house, and consider themselves law abiding citizens. However, if another person does it, they are a threat to cops, and a cop may be justified in killing them.


Scratch if you itch, boys.

:)

Sent from the Matrioshka in the WH Christmas tree.
 
dcsports said:
They are doing this for a couple of reasons. 1) when they file a civil suit, and they will, it will be against the city for a lack of training and support. Their first witness will probably be the officer. 2) To a large extent, they are right. This officer obviously wasn't prepared for what should have been a routine call, and made a series of poor decisions. This was avoidable - no question.
Click to expand...
You think "Don't blast a person within 1.5 seconds of seeing them." wasn't a part of their training?

The guy saw the woman and in a split second blew her away. Tell me how that's the fault of the police force or the training. Should they have given him a pop gun instead of a real gun until he had ten years experience on the force?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom