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Officer kills woman inside her Texas home after welfare call

marke said:
There are justifications in similar scenarios for the homeowner firing first and justifications in similar situations for the cops to fire first. All the facts and arguments must be presented in court for a legal verdict to be rendered. This case cannot be solved in the barnyard with all the animals braying their own individual opinions.
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You didn't answer my question nor did you address my post.

I'll try again.

If you hear a person in your yard snooping around, and you have no idea who this person or their intent is, should you have the right to arm your self? Yes or No?
 
Kreton said:
Seems she was likely holding a gun from what I read, however, I don't think it matters.
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Where did you read that? I haven't seen anything of the sort, and it would have been the first thing stated by the department. The officer didn't mention it on the tape

But you are right - it doesn't matter. She had every right to have a gun and defend herself.
 
marke said:
Too many people are blundering their way into condemning the cop before allowing him to defend himself in court. That kind of pre-judgment may be OK in places like China and North Korea but it is condemned here in America
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He'll have his time in court. However, the facts are pretty convincing. Given what we know, he was in the wrong. Period.
 
marke said:
I am aware of what the amateurs in the street are saying, but I still have not heard the facts and arguments presented by the duly appointed defense attorneys.
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OK. Given the facts, tell me a scenario where this officer was justified.
 
marke said:
How can we insure the safety of our officers if they are sent on calls involving unknown threats and possible deadly responses from quick-acting perps with guns? We can tell them to stand down and not go investigate any calls at night or where there is a possibility that someone might point a gun at them without giving them warning or time to assess the threat. That is being done more that we might realize and neighborhoods are becoming more like killing fields of lawless gangs because of it.
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You ask the wrong question. The question isn’t “How do we insure the safety of our officers” but rather “how do we insure everyone’s safety in police citizen interactions”.
 
dcsports said:
Where did you read that? I haven't seen anything of the sort, and it would have been the first thing stated by the department. The officer didn't mention it on the tape

But you are right - it doesn't matter. She had every right to have a gun and defend herself.
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I saw an article today that said the nephew said she got her gun and went to the window.

Cop apparently didn’t see it because he ordered her to “show me your hands” so it’s completely irrelevant. And in any case it doesn’t matter since she was legally entitled to own it and acted completely properly with it. Even the police chief says as much.
 
Master Debator said:
What are you crying about? No one dragged this officer out into the street and tried to institute mob justice. He was taken into custody peacefully at his lawyers office. He was processed and now hes out on bond awaiting trial. :roll:

What news can't report on it and people can't have opinions unless you approve of them? **** off. :roll:
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I know the opinions promoted in the street are biased and have no place in court. But I am trying to keep people from assuming guilt before a trial and doing things which are wrong, like hate cops. Assuming guilt without a trial was common in lynchings a hundred years ago and in Schitff's secret impeachment hearings of today.
 
Kreton said:
You didn't answer my question nor did you address my post.

I'll try again.

If you hear a person in your yard snooping around, and you have no idea who this person or their intent is, should you have the right to arm your self? Yes or No?
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Yes. I said that before. There are legitimate grounds for using stand your ground laws but just because someone claims they were in the right to shoot to kill does not mean they were right. The right thing to do is present all the evidence in court and allow a jury to decide guilt or innocence. This cop cannot be lynched, cannot be found guilty, cannot even be assumed to be guilty before a trial without violating every American's right to the presumption of innocence.
 
dcsports said:
He'll have his time in court. However, the facts are pretty convincing. Given what we know, he was in the wrong. Period.
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O.J. also looked guilty but he was acquitted in trial. This cop may look guilty and yet be acquitted at trial also.
 
dcsports said:
He'll have his opportunity.
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Of course. That is how things are done in America, at least for now. We expect some more hope and constitutional law changes if democrats seize control of the government again.
 
dcsports said:
OK. Given the facts, tell me a scenario where this officer was justified.
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If he perceived a deadly threat which did not go away when he ordered the victim to drop the gun then it is possible a jury will acquit him of charges of murder.
 
marke said:
I know the opinions promoted in the street are biased and have no place in court. But I am trying to keep people from assuming guilt before a trial and doing things which are wrong, like hate cops. Assuming guilt without a trial was common in lynchings a hundred years ago and in Schitff's secret impeachment hearings of today.
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The people that were being lynched a hundred years ago were the poor and vulnerable black americans who often times, weren't being protected by law. Here on the other hand, police are some of the most respected and protected legally in our society. Pretty much the exact opposite of those real victims of bias, bigotry and mob justice. Your comparison is equal parts historically ignorant and morally repugnant. Congratulations. :thumbs:
 
Gaius46 said:
You ask the wrong question. The question isn’t “How do we insure the safety of our officers” but rather “how do we insure everyone’s safety in police citizen interactions”.
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Tell citizens to immediately obey officer's commands if the officer is pointing a gun at them. He who hesitates to obey may end up shot. That is how everyone can improve safety in tense situations.
 
marke said:
Tell citizens to immediately obey officer's commands if the officer is pointing a gun at them. He who hesitates to obey may end up shot. That is how everyone can improve safety in tense situations.
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Or, we can do as Texas is doing and convict coward cops of murder. :shrug:
 
Gaius46 said:
I saw an article today that said the nephew said she got her gun and went to the window.

Cop apparently didn’t see it because he ordered her to “show me your hands” so it’s completely irrelevant. And in any case it doesn’t matter since she was legally entitled to own it and acted completely properly with it. Even the police chief says as much.
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If the officer told the woman to show him her hands and the very next thing he sees is a gun in her hands then he may get some leniency in court for firing at the perceived threat. We might even make a case for agreeing with liberals that women like her should be disarmed because of the danger that they might stick a gun in an officer's face, not realizing the danger she puts herself in.
 
Master Debator said:
The people that were being lynched a hundred years ago were the poor and vulnerable black americans who often times, weren't being protected by law. Here on the other hand, police are some of the most respected and protected legally in our society. Pretty much the exact opposite of those real victims of bias, bigotry and mob justice. Your comparison is equal parts historically ignorant and morally repugnant. Congratulations. :thumbs:
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Say what? Are you suggesting that it is wrong to pre-judge and condemn poor blacks but not white cops or white US Presidents?
 
Master Debator said:
Or, we can do as Texas is doing and convict coward cops of murder. :shrug:
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I hope cops who are guilty of murder will be found guilty and cops who are not guilty of murder will be found innocent in a trial, providing they survive the condemnations of the street mobs.
 
marke said:
Say what? Are you suggesting that it is wrong to pre-judge and condemn poor blacks but not white cops?
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No I'm saying using real victims of prejudice and mob violence (black americans) to give cover to one of the most revered and protected class of people in our society (law enforcement) is disgusting and racist. Especially in a situation where a black home owner was murdered in her own home by a police officer.
 
marke said:
Too many people are blundering their way into condemning the cop before allowing him to defend himself in court. That kind of pre-judgment may be OK in places like China and North Korea but it is condemned here in America
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The killing of citizens by police in police states such as China and North Korea sadly is probably not something all that unexpected or uncommon. But in free and modern industrial nations such as ours such killings of this sort by the police ought not be expected or become anywhere near common. And it's happening far too much in this country. That cowardly idiot in Fort Worth is going to jail. You can count on it.
 
marke said:
Tell citizens to immediately obey officer's commands if the officer is pointing a gun at them. He who hesitates to obey may end up shot. That is how everyone can improve safety in tense situations.
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A simplistic solution that doesn’t account for reality. It doesn’t account for the fact that having a gun shoved in your face is confusing to say the least. It doesn’t account for the fact that cops often give conflicting commands. It doesn’t account for the fact that those commands may not even be legal.

Sorry putting the onus on citizens to simply obey isn’t doing to work. Like it or not the police have a responsibility to insure the safety of the people they interact with. It isn’t a one way street.
 
marke said:
If the officer told the woman to show him her hands and the very next thing he sees is a gun in her hands then he may get some leniency in court for firing at the perceived threat. We might even make a case for agreeing with liberals that women like her should be disarmed because of the danger that they might stick a gun in an officer's face, not realizing the danger she puts herself in.
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Given the time involved I rather doubt it. I’d also suggest that if the gun was a thing the officer’s lawyer would be all over it in the media.

As to the rest of your post regarding women and firearms I have no idea what you’re getting at and why it’s relevant. I’ll only say we are a nation of gun owners and for the the police to assume that simply because someone has a gun they’re a threat is stupid.
 
marke said:
If the officer told the woman to show him her hands and the very next thing he sees is a gun in her hands then he may get some leniency in court for firing at the perceived threat. We might even make a case for agreeing with liberals that women like her should be disarmed because of the danger that they might stick a gun in an officer's face, not realizing the danger she puts herself in.
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You do know that Texas is open carry state, don't you?
 
marke said:
Tell citizens to immediately obey officer's commands if the officer is pointing a gun at them. He who hesitates to obey may end up shot. That is how everyone can improve safety in tense situations.
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LOL! First off he never identified as being a officer and second he pulled his trigger nearly simultaneously with his 'command'. The poor lady didn't even have a chance to say "huh?" before this idiot blasted her.
 
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