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Thread: Officer kills woman inside her Texas home after welfare call

  1. #681
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    Re: Officer kills woman inside her Texas home after welfare call

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You ever stared down someone that was pointing a gun at you and you had 3-5 seconds to decide if you want to live, or die? I bet the answer is, uh no.
    I don't know about "Deuce", but I have.

    In the one case where there was any doubt about whether or not the person actually intended to do me harm, I removed the threat by disarming them.

    It didn't even take the whole 3 to 5 seconds to assess/consider/act.
    I was told that the best things for me were to eat healthy foods, walk up hills, stop smoking cigars, and cut out drinking Scotch.
    With my record, I don't _DESERVE_ the best. What's second best?
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  2. #682
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    Re: Officer kills woman inside her Texas home after welfare call

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Actually it doesn't. Americans have the tight to own guns and use them for defense. He didn't identify himsekf as police or do anything else other than look like a threat. Then he gunned down a woman apparently for surprising him by standing in a window.



    Which, as has been pointed out to you, he isn't, and which, as has been pointed out to you, would directly contradict the evidence on tape.



    No, a corrupt system protects the powerful at the expense of the abused. Corrupt systems are things like the blue wall of silence, and cops getting away with murder because they are cops.



    possible, but to their own disgrace, if so. Cowardice and sacrificing civilians' safety for one's own ill-becomes those who claim willingness to risk themselves to protect others.


    All this incident does is drive home that sometimes the most dangerous threats come from those who are supposed to protect us from them. Had this cop missed, and the woman actually had a gun and fired back, killing him, she would still have been in the right, and he in the wrong.
    True, but that does not change the fact that she would also have been equally dead. (Only, in that situation, the police officer who killed her would be being commended and not charged.)
    I was told that the best things for me were to eat healthy foods, walk up hills, stop smoking cigars, and cut out drinking Scotch.
    With my record, I don't _DESERVE_ the best. What's second best?
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  3. #683
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    Re: Officer kills woman inside her Texas home after welfare call

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    I’m not sure it even matters. The relevant Texas statute:





    Texas self defense justification:



    My non-lawyerly reading of this would be that even if he saw the gun and even if he reasonably thought force was necessary her use of force would have been legal. So in short he’s still potentially on the hook for murder.
    My point is simply that it is going to be INCREDIBLY difficult for the defence to get the child's evidence admitted and it's going to be even more difficult to have it hold together on cross-examination even IF the defence manages to get the child qualified as a witness.

    Even if the woman's gun was POINTED AT the window, the question remains as to whether it was ACTUALLY AIMED at anything specific (as opposed to merely being POINTED AT the source of a potential threat (which the woman was entitled to conclude that an unknown prowler in her backyard was). If the gun was POINTED AT the source of a potential threat, then the woman was PREPARING TO DEFEND herself and that is 100% permissible at law.
    I was told that the best things for me were to eat healthy foods, walk up hills, stop smoking cigars, and cut out drinking Scotch.
    With my record, I don't _DESERVE_ the best. What's second best?
    (Retirement Dinner remarks)



  4. #684
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    Officer kills woman inside her Texas home after welfare call

    Quote Originally Posted by TU Curmudgeon View Post
    My point is simply that it is going to be INCREDIBLY difficult for the defence to get the child's evidence admitted and it's going to be even more difficult to have it hold together on cross-examination even IF the defence manages to get the child qualified as a witness.

    Even if the woman's gun was POINTED AT the window, the question remains as to whether it was ACTUALLY AIMED at anything specific (as opposed to merely being POINTED AT the source of a potential threat (which the woman was entitled to conclude that an unknown prowler in her backyard was). If the gun was POINTED AT the source of a potential threat, then the woman was PREPARING TO DEFEND herself and that is 100% permissible at law.
    Agreed on all counts. And my reading of the law means if she’s justified that the murder charge would apply as opposed to some lesser homicide.

    My outsider looking view is that his best bet is a plea deal but given the outrage over the shooting one may not be forthcoming.
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    Re: Officer kills woman inside her Texas home after welfare call

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Because he's trained not to. What part of that don't you understand?
    That's completely false. Cops are not trained to automatically shoot when they see a gun.

    Remember: "identify the threat?" That's the rule, for cops and everyone else. And he 100% failed to do that.

    Because he was wrong.
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    Re: Officer kills woman inside her Texas home after welfare call

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Agreed on all counts. And my reading of the law means if she’s justified that the murder charge would apply as opposed to some lesser homicide.

    My outsider looking view is that his best bet is a plea deal but given the outrage over the shooting one may not be forthcoming.
    I suspect that, should a suitable sentencing arrangement be reached, a plea deal will be struck almost instantly.

    (Being cynical, one might even suspect that the plea deal would include an agreement NOT to oppose an appeal that would shorten the sentence significantly. More realistically, the plea deal might include a long sentence with a short parole eligibility [say five years to life] and an agreement not to oppose the granting of parole overly strenuously.)
    I was told that the best things for me were to eat healthy foods, walk up hills, stop smoking cigars, and cut out drinking Scotch.
    With my record, I don't _DESERVE_ the best. What's second best?
    (Retirement Dinner remarks)



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    Re: Officer kills woman inside her Texas home after welfare call

    [QUOTE=Lursa;1070795371]That's completely false. Cops are not trained to automatically shoot when they see a gun.[/qoute]

    Quite right. The STREET training is:

    1. TIME 0:00.0 - See a gun
      *
    2. TIME 0:00.1 - Shout "Drop the gun!"
      *
    3. TIME 0:00.2 - Fire first round
      *
    4. TIME 0:00.7 - Fire second round
      *
    5. TIME 0:01.2 - Fire third round
      *
    6. TIME 0:01.7 - Fire fourth round
      *
    7. TIME 0:02.2 - Fire fifth round
      *
    8. TIME 0:02.7 - Fire sixth round
      *
    9. TIME 0:03.2 - Fire seventh round
      *
    10. TIME 0:03.7 - Fire eighth round
      *
    11. TIME 0:04.2 - Fire ninth round
      *
    12. TIME 0:04.7 - Fire tenth round
      *
    13. TIME 0:05.2 - Fire eleventh round
      *
    14. TIME 0:05.7 - Eject magazine
      *
    15. TIME 0:08.0 - Insert new magazine
      *
    16. TIME 0:08.5 - resume firing
      *
    17. TIME 0:0 ...


    which is not quite what their ACADEMY training is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Remember: "identify the threat?" That's the rule, for cops and everyone else. And he 100% failed to do that.
    The police officer did, in fact, "identify the threat" - <SARC>he "saw something that was doing something that might have been a potential threat" and took steps to "neutralize the potential threat to his life and the lives of other people in the area"</SARC>.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Because he was wrong.
    <SARC>Well, there is that, but, hey no one is perfect - right?</SARC>
    I was told that the best things for me were to eat healthy foods, walk up hills, stop smoking cigars, and cut out drinking Scotch.
    With my record, I don't _DESERVE_ the best. What's second best?
    (Retirement Dinner remarks)



  8. #688
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    Re: Officer kills woman inside her Texas home after welfare call

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Because he's trained not to. What part of that don't you understand?
    Hmm... if the (now ex) police officer did what he was trained to do then wouldn't he still be a police officer?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Officer kills woman inside her Texas home after welfare call

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Hmm... if the (now ex) police officer did what he was trained to do then wouldn't he still be a police officer?
    Soon as this hit the nws his law enforcement career was over. Look what happened to Darren Wilson. He was cleared by what, 4 different investigations? One, or two were Federal?

    People still want to put him in jail...

    It’s time for a new Darren Wilson grand jury | Charles Jaco | stlamerican.com
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    Re: Officer kills woman inside her Texas home after welfare call

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, the officer demanded (without identifying himself as a police officer) to see the woman's hands immediately before shooting her. Meaning they weren't visible, meaning he didn't see them pointing at him. The claim that he did appears to be something you made up, thinking (wrongly) that it would exculpate the murderer, who killed a woman for surprising him by standing in her own home.

    But tell me more about how you've decided that exercising your right to self defense by having a gun to deal with night intruders is now something worthy of getting you killed without trial by the State. I'd like to hear more about when and how you decided to jettison the second amendment to try to excuse this man's decision to execute this woman.
    You know why he's taken this stance.

    We all do.

    It's not out of genuine concern for law and order.

    We know this.

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