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Thread: Officer kills woman inside her Texas home after welfare call

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    Re: Officer kills woman inside her Texas home after welfare call

    Quote Originally Posted by TU Curmudgeon View Post
    Using your definition of "identifying your target", you are quite correct.



    Well, there isn't any doubt that the former police officer followed that rule.

    We don't know if the dead woman followed that rule and we can't ask her, can we?



    And exactly how do you propose to establish that she knew that the person prowling around in her backyard was a police officer? Have you asked her? Did the bodycam recording show that the person prowling around in her backyard actually identified themselves as a police officer?



    I presume that you meant "should NOT have done that".

    I can tell you without much fear of contradiction from any rational person that, had the woman fired a gun in the general direction of the police officer, the woman would be the object of massive return fire and would almost certainly have been killed in a "regrettable, but completely justified exchange of fire between police officers carrying out their duties and a person who fired upon police officers carrying out their duties".
    It's interesting that the woman appeared to use more restraint in shooting than the officer.

    Excellent points regarding 'if' the woman had fired first. The officer would have been justified in returning fire. He would still have likely been in trouble for initiating the situation, but would have had a more legitimate explanation.

    I don't think the woman would have been killed though. They would have backed off and actually spoken with her.

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    Re: Officer kills woman inside her Texas home after welfare call

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That is a gross oversimplification of the situation. Perhaps her "rule 101" was that no shot will be fired unless forced entry was attempted indicating that the target was clearly involved in the commission of a crime and/or posing a credible threat?
    Actually, the sentiment really falls apart when applied to the officer. He entered the yard gun drawn, and pointed at the window when he put his flashlight on it. Does that mean he intended to kill ("destroy") anyone who happened to be inside?

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    Re: Officer kills woman inside her Texas home after welfare call

    Quote Originally Posted by TU Curmudgeon View Post
    Just about the same as if they hadn't been a police officer and had walked into the wrong yard in the middle of the night.

    However, I do quite understand that some people are firmly of the opinion that any police officer should be able to shoot anyone, anywhere, at any time, and then be totally immune from any legal consequences simply because they are a police officer who says "I thought that I was about to be attacked and had an honest belief that I was acting in self defence." (even if the police officer was acting in a most UN-police manner and in violation of departmental regulations and policies).
    I usually judge these situations by whether or not I’d be jailed if I did what the cop did. In this I rather doubt even get bail.

    Unfortunately an entirely separate legal system has sprung up around police behavior. A reasonably scared cop almost always gets off.
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    Re: Officer kills woman inside her Texas home after welfare call

    Quote Originally Posted by dcsports View Post
    Actually, the sentiment really falls apart when applied to the officer. He entered the yard gun drawn, and pointed at the window when he put his flashlight on it. Does that mean he intended to kill ("destroy") anyone who happened to be inside?
    That is precisely why the (now ex) police officer is unlikely to testify in his defense. His lawyer is free to spin some yarn of reasonable doubt as to why this was not Murder 1, but will likely not be able to present any self-defense claim since the (now ex) police officer clearly took many actions to provoke any alleged attack.
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    Re: Officer kills woman inside her Texas home after welfare call

    Someone correct me if I am wrong.

    When this police officer looked in the window he saw BOTH the child and woman and thought THEY were the burglars? He thought they were a threat?

    How many break-ins are committed by a woman and child?
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    Re: Officer kills woman inside her Texas home after welfare call

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That is a gross oversimplification of the situation. Perhaps her "rule 101" was that no shot will be fired unless forced entry was attempted indicating that the target was clearly involved in the commission of a crime and/or posing a credible threat?
    The bottomline, is she was pointing the gun at the window. The cop saw a gun pointed at him. He reacted.

    If you point a gun at a cop, the cop is going to shoot. He isn't going to deescalate, retreat, or anything else.
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    Re: Officer kills woman inside her Texas home after welfare call

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Hmm... is that an admission that she had every right (and reason?) to shoot that (now ex) police officer?
    She would be better off. Agreed?
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    Re: Officer kills woman inside her Texas home after welfare call

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The bottomline, is she was pointing the gun at the window. The cop saw a gun pointed at him. He reacted.

    If you point a gun at a cop, the cop is going to shoot. He isn't going to deescalate, retreat, or anything else.
    Yep, but that (now ex) cop is likely going to be doing some serious time. The good people of Texas are unlikely to take kindly to cops executing folks in their homes as part of a routine, non-emergency "welfare visit". I bet that concerned neighbor (who called the police) is very upset about it too.
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    Re: Officer kills woman inside her Texas home after welfare call

    Quote Originally Posted by TU Curmudgeon View Post
    Indeed, that would have resulted in the arrival of many more heavily armed police officer in short order and then they could have gunned the woman down with impunity because she had "shot at a police officer". Had she pulled the trigger and actually hit the police officer, her odds of survival would have been halved. Had she hit the police officer and wounded him seriously, her odds of survival would have been halved again. Had she hit the police officer and killed him, her odds of survival would have been negligible.

    BUT, the police would have been "completely justified" in "returning fire" and so (unless he was killed) the police officer who shot the woman would have been exonerated and returned to duty as a police officer.



    Firearms Safety 102: "Know that what you intend to destroy is what you think it is."
    Not if she was laying on the ground, spread eagle, with no weapon in her hand.

    Then, during the trial, the bodycam video would show that the officer didn't announce himself. Right?
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    Re: Officer kills woman inside her Texas home after welfare call

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    She would be better off. Agreed?
    That is hard to say, the result of a shots fired, officer down call - with the armed and extremely dangerous suspect(s) inside the house is not likely to have ended well either.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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