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Ukraine president says 'no blackmail' in phone call with Trump

What I don't get is why some don't believe POTUS when he released the memorialization of his call. He hasn't denied that he asked Zelensky for dirt. He and the WH admitted it.
 
What else is he going to say—"the President of the United States extorted me"?
So he can't tell the truth when Trump and Volker and the transcript all agree with the fact that he wasn't extorted. Damn you make it hard to prove anything.
 
Right. There was no quid pro quo, and Santa Claus is real, too. We'll be hearing more about the previous administration, for those of us who read and listen.

No, of course there was a "quid pro quo" with Biden, but calling it that doesn't make it illegal or improper in any way. We do "quid pro quos" in foreign policy constantly - that's much of what foreign policy is. Any trade agreement is about 1,000 different quid pro quos. When we engage in any negotiation with a foreign government, we HOPE the end result of those negotiations IS A QUID PRO QUO. We agree to this, and in exchange, you agree to that... A house sale - you've probably done that - is a quid pro quo.

You guys are trying to just both sides it with this crap - he did a quid pro quo, TOO - and it's not going to work. The quid and the quo actually DO matter here. Here the quid was money and support for Ukraine Trump was blocking and the quo was for this corrupt foreign hellhole country to investigate Biden (likely 2020 Democratic nominee for POTUS) and the servers.
 
What else is he going to say—"the President of the United States extorted me"?

Sure, he could say that and then he risks Trump, who is well known as a vindictive asshole - he brags about it in his books, see also, Romney, or anyone who crosses him publicly, pulls support for Ukraine, and Trump might be President for another 5 years.

Not to mention, agreeing that he bowed to pressure from the U.S. makes Zelenskyy look weak domestically and on the international stage. So there's exactly ZERO incentive for him to admit to it.
 
So he can't tell the truth when Trump and Volker and the transcript all agree with the fact that he wasn't extorted. Damn you make it hard to prove anything.

I know a shake down when I see it. That call was a shake down, plain and simple. Trump’s as crooked as a West Virginia road.
 
Sure, he could say that and then he risks Trump, who is well known as a vindictive asshole - he brags about it in his books, see also, Romney, or anyone who crosses him publicly, pulls support for Ukraine, and Trump might be President for another 5 years.

Not to mention, agreeing that he bowed to pressure from the U.S. makes Zelenskyy look weak domestically and on the international stage. So there's exactly ZERO incentive for him to admit to it.

Well articulated. Thank you.
 
Guy being bribed says there were no bribes!
 
Please see post #32. Time to put up, or shut up, as they say. Let's see some of this supposedly damning evidence, and let's see the complete transcripts of closed door intelligence hearings from Schiff. I'm not interested in snipped parts made by rabid partisans and the usual absolute **** from Schiff. I'm still waiting for Schiff's incontrovertible evidence of collusion that Mueller didn't find. Where is it? You got it?

Yes, let’s see all the evidence that the White House is withholding. I wonder why...hmm.
 
That would be very convincing if it weren't for the fact that we have text messages (from an encrypted app, so as to try and hide these communications) that show explicitly that there was black mail, a republican senator admitted that one of the officials told him we were holding up aid in exchange for political investigations, we have a memo of a call that shows that the president wanted a "a favor though" when discussing military purchases for Ukraine that would require our aid to be sent etc. etc. etc.

The ukrainian president doesn't want to piss off trump cause he has Russians lined up on his borders and in his country in some parts. And he knows the president is incredibly spiteful and morally corrupt. So he can't call him out. It's the same reason that he had to mention to Trump that he stayed at one of his hotels. Because he knows how corrupt and absolutely unfit Trump is.

Trump Tower Thugs on one side, Putin's Polonium Police on the other.
Yeah, like Zelensky's gonna speak truth to power.

I seem to recall another famous "Zelensky" who "only wanted the Callahan name on the box", but he wasn't about to tell all those loyal Callahan customers that, was he?

"I make car parts for the American working man, because that's what I am, and that's who I care about."



But coming out the other side of his mouth:

"I only wanted the Callahan name."

original-27474-1428341739-18.png


Never ever trust a Zelensky or a Zalinsky to keep their word when two guns are being held to their head at the same time...or when they're on top in a hostile corporate takeover bid.
 
The evidence is staring you in the face. All you have to do is open your eyes.

And I can't address #32 because Obama never called up a foreign country, gave his personal lawyer the authority of AG, to work with any foreign country to investigate anyone. If that wasn't the BOTHSIDES BUTWHATABOUTOBAMA you were hoping for, you'll have to explain and be specific.
It sho-nuff staring you in the face. Why are you ignoring what Sounland said ??

“I believe you are incorrect about President Trump’s intentions. The President has been crystal clear: no quid pro quo’s of any kind.”
 
It sho-nuff staring you in the face. Why are you ignoring what Sounland said ??

“I believe you are incorrect about President Trump’s intentions. The President has been crystal clear: no quid pro quo’s of any kind.”

Let's have Congress ask Sondland and Bill Taylor that in person in hearings. Trump blocked that, though..... :confused:

Here's what Ukraine thought was needed for a meeting with Trump, as the money was being blocked:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...iplomats-giuliani-ukrainian-aide/?arc404=true

Andrey Yermak
5:42 p.m.
Once we have a date, will call for a press briefing, announcing upcoming visit and outlining vision for the reboot of US*-UKRAINE relationship, including among other things Burisma and election meddling in investigations

Here's Volker, who denies quid pro quo, laying it out in a proposed statement.

Kurt Volker
10:26 a.m.
Special attention should be paid to the problem of interference in the political processes of the United States especially with the alleged involvement of some Ukrainian politicians. I want to declare that this is unacceptable. We intend to initiate and complete a transparent and unbiased investigation of all available facts and episodes, including those involving Burisma and the 2016 U.S. elections, which in tum will prevent the recurrence of this problem in the future.

Weird how both sides keep mentioning the server nonsense and Burisma (Bidens) but there was no pressure! No quid pro quo!!

Gordon Sondland
3:06 p.m.
Do we still want Ze to give us an unequivocal draft with 2016 and Boresma?

Kurt Volker
4:34 p.m.
That’s the clear message so far ...

Kurt Volker
4:34 p.m.
I'm hoping we can put something out there that causes him to respond with that

Gordon Sondland
4:41 p.m.
Unless you think otherwise I will return Andreys call tomorrow and suggest they send us a clean draft.

There it is again - 2016 and Burisma/Biden!

Bill Taylor
12:08 p.m.
Are we now saying that security assistance and WH meeting are conditioned on investigations?

Gordon Sondland
12:42 p.m.
Call me

The meeting has been conditioned on investigations for weeks, and the security assistance is being blocked, so yeah, Bill! But...

YOU CAN'T SAY THE QUIET PART OUT LOUD IN WRITING!!!

Bill Taylor
12:31 a.m.
The message to the Ukrainians (and Russians) we send with the decision on security assistance is key. With the hold, we have already shaken their faith in us. Thus my nightmare scenario.

Bill Taylor
12:34 a.m.
Counting on you to be right about this interview, Gordon.

Gordon Sondland
12:37 a.m.
Bill, I never said I was "right". I said we are where we are and believe we have identified the best pathway forward. Lets hope it works.

Bill Taylor
12:47 a.m.
As I said on the phone, I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign.

Gordon Sondland
5:19 a.m.
Bill, I believe you are incorrect about President Trump’s intentions. The President has been crystal clear no quid pro quo’s of any kind. The President is trying to evaluate whether Ukraine is truly going to adopt the transparency and reforms that President Zelensky promised during his campaign I suggest we stop the back and forth by text If you still have concerns I recommend you give Lisa Kenna or S a call to discuss them directly. Thanks.

So as you see, they've been conditioning everything involving Ukraine for weeks and weeks on the investigations, so a quid pro quo - phone call for investigations, then a meeting for investigations, and now Bill Taylor who is intimately involved is angry that it's security assistance for investigations. Sondland is caught in the middle but he knows enough not to say that in writing out loud, but for him to say 'no quid pro quo's of any kind' when he's been doing nothing but that - investigations for phone call THEN meeting THEN security assistance - for weeks doesn't pass the LMMFAO test.
 
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The ukrainian president doesn't want to piss off trump cause he has Russians lined up on his borders and in his country in some parts. .

Just want to make sure I got this right....this President, the one everone on the left is so convinced is a puppet of Russia, that the only thing standing between Ukraine and Russia...is....Trump? So then....what are they waiting for?

I will never understand the lack of logical thinking skills that people put on when it comes to politics.
 
So do we have the messages or not? Are you referencing the memo from Schiff and Cummings?

schiff and cummings have lied about it more times than anyone can count.
just like schiff lied over russia and everything else that he has said.

in fact he knew about it and met with the WB before it was submitted.
we also know that the WB also was supporting biden and trying to get
into his campaign.

deep state active and alive.
 
It sho-nuff staring you in the face. Why are you ignoring what Sounland said ??

“I believe you are incorrect about President Trump’s intentions. The President has been crystal clear: no quid pro quo’s of any kind.”

Because Trump resistors have no interest in the facts.
 
they should just drop the whole thing. they have egg all over their faces because once again they listened to slimy schiff.

I keep wondering how they delude themselves into believing that theirs is a winning strategy.
 
I keep wondering how they delude themselves into believing that theirs is a winning strategy.

leftism doesn't allow for much critical thinking. the entire leftist argument is just one huge appeal to emotion argument after another.
i honestly think that is why most leftists are so miserable and not that happy. it is simply a ton of energy and emotion wound up to constantly
engage in said fallacies all the time.

The leftist have abandoned logic and reason a long time ago. they will run off a cliff and plunge into the ocean before they just admit they were wrong.
because to let go of their appeal to emotion they simply don't have anything else to go off of.
 
So he can't tell the truth when Trump and Volker and the transcript all agree with the fact that he wasn't extorted. Damn you make it hard to prove anything.

Remember this. What liberals call facts, we call lies.
 
leftism doesn't allow for much critical thinking. the entire leftist argument is just one huge appeal to emotion argument after another.
i honestly think that is why most leftists are so miserable and not that happy. it is simply a ton of energy and emotion wound up to constantly
engage in said fallacies all the time.

The leftist have abandoned logic and reason a long time ago. they will run off a cliff and plunge into the ocean before they just admit they were wrong.
because to let go of their appeal to emotion they simply don't have anything else to go off of.

This thread surely is proof of the above... I've never seen anything quite like it.
 
This thread surely is proof of the above... I've never seen anything quite like it.

well they have always been unhinged but they have hide it pretty well. the one good thing about trump he that he has finally revealed how
deranged and dangerous these people are.

They were having to use pepper spray on protesters in MN the other night at a campaign rally.
there was multiple arrests and other things that happened.

they deem this type of violence as ok. that is the most disturbing part.
the mayor there then attempted an unconstitutional suppression of free speech.

the tyranny of the left cannot go unnoticed.
 
No, of course there was a "quid pro quo" with Biden, but calling it that doesn't make it illegal or improper in any way. We do "quid pro quos" in foreign policy constantly - that's much of what foreign policy is. Any trade agreement is about 1,000 different quid pro quos. When we engage in any negotiation with a foreign government, we HOPE the end result of those negotiations IS A QUID PRO QUO. We agree to this, and in exchange, you agree to that... A house sale - you've probably done that - is a quid pro quo.

You guys are trying to just both sides it with this crap - he did a quid pro quo, TOO - and it's not going to work. The quid and the quo actually DO matter here. Here the quid was money and support for Ukraine Trump was blocking and the quo was for this corrupt foreign hellhole country to investigate Biden (likely 2020 Democratic nominee for POTUS) and the servers.

That wasn't the point, you know it. Don't lecturr me on how foreign policy is conducted.

It was a quid pro quo for personal gain. I thought thst was understood. It should've been without me having to voice it. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. There is no defense for Biden's actions, so you launched a pointless ramble.
 
LOL. Don't believe all the transcripts and texts. (Edit: And oh yes, the real time concern expressed by the GOP senator Ron Johnson -- thanks, roughdraft)

Just take the word of the man whose country's national security is being held hostage. Zelinksky is the roughed-up woman who is standing behind the cracked-open door telling the police, "no, I'm alright, you can go away now", while a man is standing behind the door just out-of-sight holding a gun to her head and her children are bound and gagged in the next room.

Do you write for the Washington Post? Your story telling is just as professional as theirs.
 
That wasn't the point, you know it. Don't lecturr me on how foreign policy is conducted.

It was a quid pro quo for personal gain. I thought thst was understood. It should've been without me having to voice it. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. There is no defense for Biden's actions, so you launched a pointless ramble.

I didn't know it. My comment specifically addressed why the "quid pro quo" was ordinary foreign policy. You ignored that argument entirely, so how can I know what point you are making?

What about this is wrong?

"The video is evidence of the VP executing the official, open, public foreign policy of the United States, including the WH, State, the U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine at the time, the IMF, the UK, reformers in Ukraine and others who wanted that corrupt thug Shokin gone. What Joe did is no different than the demands Trump makes of, e.g. Mexico, to close up its southern border, or else tariffs."

Put another way, you calling it a quid pro quo for Biden's personal gain is baseless. Shokin had a record of protecting Burisma and its owner. In the case the UK brought freezing $23 million held by Burisma, Shokin blocked that investigation and the UK had to lift the block and the money was moved to Cyprus. So how is it in Biden's personal benefit to get the entire western world on board with removing a corrupt prosecutor who in fact had protected his son's firm for years. It doesn't make any sense at any level for Biden to go to ANY lengths to fire Shokin. The opposite is what makes sense.
 
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