• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Letter from White House counsel Pat Cipollone to House leaders

B

bubbabgone

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
36,996
Reaction score
17,941
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
"In a letter to House leaders, White House counsel Pat Cipollone wrote that House Democrats’ recent actions violate “the Constitution, the rule of law, and every past precedent.” He criticized the impeachment inquiry as attempt to overturn the 2016 presidential election results and to influence the upcoming 2020 campaign. "
https://www.washingtonpost.com/cont...-ab4b-9d591a5fda7b/?wpisrc=nl_politics&wpmm=1


The Committees' inquity also suffers from a separate, fatal defect. Despite Speaker
Pelosi's commitment to "treat the President with fairness,"6 the Committees have not established
any procedures affording the President even the most basic protections demanded by due process
under the Constitution and by fundamental fairness. Chairman Nadler of the House Judiciary
Committee has expressly acknowledged, at least when the President was a member of his own
party, that "[t]he power of impeachment ... demands a rigorous level of due process," and that
in this context "due process mean ... the right to be informed of the law, of the charges
against you, the right to confront the witnesses against you, to call your own witnesses, and to
have the assistance of counsel. "
7 All of these procedures have been abandoned here.
These due process rights are not a matter of discretion for the Committees to dispense
with at will. To the contrary, they are constitutional requirements. The Supreme Court has
recognized that due process protections apply to all congressional investigations.8 Indeed, it has
been recognized that the Due Process Clause applies to impeachment proceedings.9 And
precedent for the rights to cross-examine witnesses, call witnesses, and present evidence dates
back nearly 150 years. 10 Yet the Committees have decided to deny the President these
elementary rights and protections that form the basis of the American justice system and are
protected by the Constitution. No citizen-including the President-should be treated this
unfairly.
Click to expand...


"The effect of impeachment is to overturn the popular will of the voters. We
must not overturn an election and remove a President from office except to
defend our system of government or our constitutional liberties against a dire
threat, and we must not do so without an overwhelming consensus of the
American people. There must never be a narrowly voted impeachment or an
impeaclnnent supported by one of our major political parties and opposed by
another. Such an impeachment will produce divisiveness and bitterness in our
politics for years to come, and will call into question the very legitimacy of
our political institutions."
Click to expand...

Your recent letter to the Acting White House Chief of Staff argues that "[ e ]ven if an
impeachment inquiry were not underway," the Oversight Committee may seek this information
as a matter of the established oversight process. 28 Respectfolly, the Committees cannot have it
both ways. The letter comes from the Chairmen of three different Committees, it transmits a
subpoena "[p]ursuant to the House of Representatives' impeachment inquiry," it recites that the
documents will "be collected as part of the House's impeachment inquiry," and it asserts that the
documents will be "shared among the Committees, as well as with the Committee on the
Judiciary as appropriate."29 The letter is in no way directed at collecting information in aid of
legislation, and you simply cannot expect to rely on oversight authority to gather information for
an unauthorized impeachment inquiry that conflicts with all historical precedent and rides
roughshod over due process and the separation of powers. If the Committees wish to return to
the regular order of oversight requests, we stand ready to engage in that process as we have in
the past, in a manner consistent with well-established bipartisan constitutional protections and a
respect for the separation of powers enshrined in our Constitution.
Click to expand...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/cont...-ab4b-9d591a5fda7b/?wpisrc=nl_politics&wpmm=1
 
Oh, my! Overturn the popular will of the voters. The President of the United States of America, in strict accordance with the Constitution of the United States of America, is not, repeat, not elected by 'the popular will of the voters' but, rather, by the Electoral College.

Such is the nonsense we have to deal with from both the right and the left these days.
 
POTUS and his lawyers can "prove " their case before the Senate.
 
Parrish said:
POTUS and his lawyers can "prove " their case before the Senate.
Click to expand...

Well, the House best hurry up and vote to send it to the Senate. What are they waiting for?
 
Torus34 said:
Oh, my! Overturn the popular will of the voters. The President of the United States of America, in strict accordance with the Constitution of the United States of America, is not, repeat, not elected by 'the popular will of the voters' but, rather, by the Electoral College.

Such is the nonsense we have to deal with from both the right and the left these days.
Click to expand...

The EC vote is allocated based on 'the popular will of the voters' (within each state).
 
Torus34 said:
Oh, my! Overturn the popular will of the voters. The President of the United States of America, in strict accordance with the Constitution of the United States of America, is not, repeat, not elected by 'the popular will of the voters' but, rather, by the Electoral College.

Such is the nonsense we have to deal with from both the right and the left these days.
Click to expand...

That quote was said by Jerrold Nadler. SURPRISE! Cipollone included it in the letter.
 
bubbabgone said:
He criticized the impeachment inquiry as attempt to overturn the 2016 presidential election results and to influence the upcoming 2020 campaign. "
Click to expand...

And that's exactly what proves this is not about the law, its about poor widdle twump's delicate feelings. Distorting the purpose of the inquiry is all they can do. they cant argue the facts.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The EC vote is allocated based on 'the popular will of the voters' (within each state).
Click to expand...

Hi! Thank you for your post. I was afraid that I was the only one who knew that fact. Now I know there are at least two of us.

Regards.
 
bubbabgone said:
That quote was said by Jerrold Nadler. SURPRISE! Cipollone included it in the letter.
Click to expand...

Hi! You might be interested to know that Mr. Benito Mussolini used the phrase, 'Drain the swamp'. And so it goes.

Regards.

PS. A quote used without attribution carries with it a whiff of plagiarism, I'm a-thinkin'.
 
Last edited:
Trump's personal lawyer before he even reached the WH disagrees with Congress.

Imagine that. What's next? Trump's maid thinks Pelosi is a bitch?

Sent from the Matrioshka in the WH Christmas tree.
 
The problem for Trump is that the Constitution is minimal but direct on the matter of impeachment, leaving the rules to the House to set. If the House were to vote to impeach Trump without offering him a chance to defend himself, it would raise political questions of fairness—but the House is only in a fact-gathering stage, trying to interview witnesses and collect information, and hasn’t even drafted articles of impeachment, which would come to a vote.
Click to expand...

Trump Letter Promises Complete Obstruction - The Atlantic

DEMs in the House of Representatives hold 31 seats in districts won by Trump. 235 DEMs to 197 GOPs. Impeachment requires 218 votes.

United States House of Representatives elections, 2020 - Ballotpedia

Trump strategists dim hopes of avoiding impeachment primarily rests on persuading vulnerable DEMs to not vote for impeachment. The GOP has already begun to target that select group. IMO, the prospect of impeachment continues to rise with each and every passing day!
 
This WH letter is pure crap inventing out of thin air. Anyone who falls for it wants to believe Trump over reality.
 
bubbabgone said:
"In a letter to House leaders, White House counsel Pat Cipollone wrote that House Democrats’ recent actions violate “the Constitution, the rule of law, and every past precedent.” He criticized the impeachment inquiry as attempt to overturn the 2016 presidential election results and to influence the upcoming 2020 campaign. "
https://www.washingtonpost.com/cont...-ab4b-9d591a5fda7b/?wpisrc=nl_politics&wpmm=1








https://www.washingtonpost.com/cont...-ab4b-9d591a5fda7b/?wpisrc=nl_politics&wpmm=1
Click to expand...

So the Republicans convened the Ken Starr inquiry and impeached Bill Clinton to "overturn the popular will of the voters"? Who knew. I wonder why they don't teach that in school. "Bill Clinton was impeached because the Republicans wanted to overturn the will of the voters". Someone needs to alert Betsy DeVos so she can require that all schools include that statement in their history classes.
 
apdst said:
Well, the House best hurry up and vote to send it to the Senate. What are they waiting for?
Click to expand...

I believe the process is in its early stages and much evidence has to be yet gathered through investigations. Is that not what you advocate?
 
tres borrachos said:
So the Republicans convened the Ken Starr inquiry and impeached Bill Clinton to "overturn the popular will of the voters"? Who knew. I wonder why they don't teach that in school. "Bill Clinton was impeached because the Republicans wanted to overturn the will of the voters". Someone needs to alert Betsy DeVos so she can require that all schools include that statement in their history classes.
Click to expand...

Betsy is da bomb.

Unfortunately, public education is the target.
 
I am due in court later today, I think I will just send them a letter stating that I do not recognize their authority over me...
 
haymarket said:
I believe the process is in its early stages and much evidence has to be yet gathered through investigations. Is that not what you advocate?
Click to expand...

LOL. You guys have investigated Trump for three years now and apparently you haven't found enough to impeach him for. So, more investigations.
 
Torus34 said:
Hi! You might be interested to know that Mr. Benito Mussolini used the phrase, 'Drain the swamp'. And so it goes.

Regards.
Click to expand...
I know Reagan and Pelosi and maybe a guy named Boudreaux down in New Orleans as well as others used the phrase but Mussolini? No, never heard that. If it matters, are you sure?

PS. A quote used without attribution carries with it a whiff of plagiarism, I'm a-thinkin'.
Click to expand...

"I'm a-thinkin' " the quote was footnoted in the letter and enclosed in quotes in the OP.
Try the link.
 
haymarket said:
I believe the process is in its early stages and much evidence has to be yet gathered through investigations. Is that not what you advocate?
Click to expand...

No he wants them to vote BEFORE all the information is gathered.

He does not understand that witnesses are normally questioned before charges are filed...
 
Moderate Right said:
LOL. You guys have investigated Trump for three years now and apparently you haven't found enough to impeach him for. So, more investigations.
Click to expand...

New crimes by Trump demand new investigations.
 
bubbabgone said:
"In a letter to House leaders, White House counsel Pat Cipollone wrote that House Democrats’ recent actions violate “the Constitution, the rule of law, and every past precedent.” He criticized the impeachment inquiry as attempt to overturn the 2016 presidential election results and to influence the upcoming 2020 campaign. "
https://www.washingtonpost.com/cont...-ab4b-9d591a5fda7b/?wpisrc=nl_politics&wpmm=1








https://www.washingtonpost.com/cont...-ab4b-9d591a5fda7b/?wpisrc=nl_politics&wpmm=1
Click to expand...

Some on the left wanted to "rehabilitate a Rich guy through public service and how to be a good public servant for the People."
 
Moderate Right said:
LOL. You guys have investigated Trump for three years now and apparently you haven't found enough to impeach him for. So, more investigations.
Click to expand...


Oh there is plenty, it's just that trump keeps committing new crimes at a pace that is unprecedented...
 
GDViking said:
I am due in court later today, I think I will just send them a letter stating that I do not recognize their authority over me...
Click to expand...

A most excellent idea. Perhaps Trump will intercede on your behalf?
 
bubbabgone said:
"In a letter to House leaders, White House counsel Pat Cipollone wrote that House Democrats’ recent actions violate “the Constitution, the rule of law, and every past precedent.” He criticized the impeachment inquiry as attempt to overturn the 2016 presidential election results and to influence the upcoming 2020 campaign. "
https://www.washingtonpost.com/cont...-ab4b-9d591a5fda7b/?wpisrc=nl_politics&wpmm=1








https://www.washingtonpost.com/cont...-ab4b-9d591a5fda7b/?wpisrc=nl_politics&wpmm=1
Click to expand...

Any self-respecting lawyer would be embarrassed for having written that. It's not a legal argument. It's a campaign release.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom