California utility will shut off power to 800,000 people to prevent wildfires

DiAnna said:

PG&E = Profit, Greed & Extortion

Nearly 40 years of making their executives millionaires, while cooking the books by pretending to do required inspections, maintenance, and upgrades; now their scheme has not only been uncovered, but literally hundreds of people have died in the past few years alone because of PG&E's negligence. They're being sued into bankruptcy, and this mass electricity turn-off was to scare the populace into demanding our state legislatures pass a law that gives California utilities immunity from financial responsibility from their own malfeasance.

It's an outrage. And yes, we were without electricity for three damned days; no oxygen, no nebulizer medication, no running water, nothing. For the entire three days, not a single leaf moved on any tree in our county, nor was our country part of the "wind warning". They shut us down anyway, and openly declared they're going to do it again, and again, and again, every time the wind blows anywhere in the state.

I hope the courts break this monstrosity into a hundred private entities, and give both PG&E executives and the entire Public Utility Commission orange jumpsuits. God knows they've all been raping California citizens for decades.

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Anger about PG&E is completely irrational since I live in Oregon and none of this effects me in any way. At the same time anger is totally rational. Allowing a corporation, individual or government to commit murder and massive destruction of property without any consequences eventually destroys civilized society and encourages others to do the same. The corruption prevents society from functioning rationally within its laws and stated purpose. The system is corrupted and fails. The Hutu and Tutsi,the Mafia, Fascism, United Fruit all corrupted, there were never consequences for their destructive behaviors and they went on to destroy society. PG&E is following that same path of corruption without consequences.

weaver2 said:

Anger about PG&E is completely irrational since I live in Oregon and none of this effects me in any way. At the same time anger is totally rational. Allowing a corporation, individual or government to commit murder and massive destruction of property without any consequences eventually destroys civilized society and encourages others to do the same. The corruption prevents society from functioning rationally within its laws and stated purpose. The system is corrupted and fails. The Hutu and Tutsi,the Mafia, Fascism, United Fruit all corrupted, there were never consequences for their destructive behaviors and they went on to destroy society. PG&E is following that same path of corruption without consequences.

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Oh PIFFLE!!

There are, most certainly, "consequences". Some people are making a whole lot of money out of PG&E.

TU Curmudgeon said:

Oh PIFFLE!!

There are, most certainly, "consequences". Some people are making a whole lot of money out of PG&E.

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I hope that's sarcasm.

weaver2 said:

Hundreds of people have died because of the fires PG&E has set and your response is


If a private citizen set fires that killed people they would be in jail. Why aren't the CEO's who made the policy of refusing to do maintenance that set the fires also in jail?

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My reply was to hundreds of people dying. It was in reply to a tantrum someone was having over their power being shut off to prevent more people from dying.

Did the CEO set the fires? You have proof of this policy refusing maintenance?

[FONT=&quot]Climate Politics[/FONT]
[h=1]What Do Rolling Blackouts And Sky-High Gas Prices Mean For Gov Newsom’s Job As Governor?[/h][FONT=&quot]From The Daily Caller Chris White Tech Reporter October 12, 2019 9:50 PM ET Wildfires might be the least of California Gov. Gavin Newsom’s concerns as his state’s citizens struggle with power blackouts. A previous California governor who struggled to deal with rolling energy blackouts was recalled in 2003. High gas prices, rolling blackouts, and
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What we see here is actions have consequences. Starting in the 60s, environmental concerns blocked PG&E from building new power plants to keep up with power needs. Then they passed even more restrictive environmental laws that increase the costs of generating electricity. It also forced the closing of most of it's nuclear plants. In 2001, the California Public Utility Commission set the rates that PG&E could charge and force them to provide as much power as their customers wanted. With these limits PG&E was forced buy outside power for more than they could sell it for and went into bankruptcy. Due to the bankruptcy, normal maintenance was cut back. This resulted in fires and more litigation.

Now that PG&E is in a death spiral, it is giving tens of millions of dollars to crooked Democrat politicians who turn a blind eye while PG&E is nearly doubling the pay of it's executives. Soon it will all be dumped into the laps of the tax payers and California will blame Trump.

Aberration said:

My reply was to hundreds of people dying. It was in reply to a tantrum someone was having over their power being shut off to prevent more people from dying.

Did the CEO set the fires? You have proof of this policy refusing maintenance?

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Sorry, I must not have read carefully and yes there is proof of not doing maintenance they agreed to do. They have been fined several times for lack of maintenance. No the CEOs did not set the fires, but their policy of ignoring maintenance did.

BahamaBob said:

What we see here is actions have consequences. Starting in the 60s, environmental concerns blocked PG&E from building new power plants to keep up with power needs. Then they passed even more restrictive environmental laws that increase the costs of generating electricity. It also forced the closing of most of it's nuclear plants. In 2001, the California Public Utility Commission set the rates that PG&E could charge and force them to provide as much power as their customers wanted. With these limits PG&E was forced buy outside power for more than they could sell it for and went into bankruptcy. Due to the bankruptcy, normal maintenance was cut back. This resulted in fires and more litigation.

Now that PG&E is in a death spiral, it is giving tens of millions of dollars to crooked Democrat politicians who turn a blind eye while PG&E is nearly doubling the pay of it's executives. Soon it will all be dumped into the laps of the tax payers and California will blame Trump.

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That is a good assessment of California's power struggle for the last 60 years. Although, the closing of most of its nuclear plants was a good thing. Otherwise California could have been another Chernobyl by now, like what happened in Alaska after the 1964 "Good Friday" quake. It took the US Army a decade to clean up the mess their cracked reactor caused. Building nuclear power plants in earthquake prone areas is just asking for trouble.

Democrats refused to allow more power plants to be built, which resulted in Governor "Grey Out" Davis being recalled, and PG&E being given carte blanche to do whatever they please, as long as they provided the power. This is a problem entirely of the Democrat's making, but you are right, they will irrationally blame Trump even though this began decades before Trump was elected.

weaver2 said:

Sorry, I must not have read carefully and yes there is proof of not doing maintenance they agreed to do. They have been fined several times for lack of maintenance. No the CEOs did not set the fires, but their policy of ignoring maintenance did.

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Not doing the maintenance is entirely different than the CEO setting a policy of ignoring maintenance. It’s a non sequitur.

Shouldn't properly maintaining and repairing the power company infrastructure be the responsibility of the power company; and paid for though the customer's utility bills? Why a bailout? Why a bankruptcy? Just allow them high enough rates to do their jobs.

Aberration said:

Not doing the maintenance is entirely different than the CEO setting a policy of ignoring maintenance. It’s a non sequitur.

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If the CEO set a "Do not do any maintenance unless it absolutely has to be done IMMEDIATELY (or else our profits will decline)." then the fact that maintenance is not done is NOT a "non sequitur" because it DOES "follow in sequence".

Waddy said:

Shouldn't properly maintaining and repairing the power company infrastructure be the responsibility of the power company;...

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That would really depend on whether doing maintenance increases or decreases profit. Or did you think that PG&E was in business to do something other than make profits for the benefits of its owners?

Waddy said:

... and paid for though the customer's utility bills?

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You don't think that the people who own PG&E are going to pay for the maintenance out of their own pockets, do you?

Waddy said:

Why a bailout?

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Because the owners and managers of PG&E will benefit financially since a bailout would mean that more of the PG&E profits would be available for distribution as dividends and bonuses.

Waddy said:

Why a bankruptcy?

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Because the owners of PG&E would benefit since less of the PG&E income would have to be diverted to pay PG&E's outstanding debts. That means higher profits. Higher profits means larger dividends and also mean higher bonuses for management for producing those higher profits.

Waddy said:

Just allow them high enough rates to do their jobs.

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If you only allowed PG&E high enough rates to do their jobs, then there wouldn't be any profits to distribute to the owners of PG&E and that means that there would be no reason for the owners of PG&E to continue to operate PG&E.

What "Just allow them high enough rates to do their jobs." implies is <scary voice> **P*U*B*L*I*C** **O*W*N*E*R*S*H*I*P**</scary voice> and that means <scary voice>**S*O*C*I*A*L*I*S*M**</scary voice> and that means that Obama/Clinton and their <scary DJT voice>left-wing, liberal, pinko, commies will have destroyed America and the next thing you know everyone will be living under Sherry Law with its mandatory same-sex, inter-racial, so-called "marriages" where everyone is forced to have abortions by the Death Panels AND all the cheerleaders have to wear Burke Hats</scary DJT voice>.

TU Curmudgeon said:

That would really depend on whether doing maintenance increases or decreases profit. Or did you think that PG&E was in business to do something other than make profits for the benefits of its owners?



You don't think that the people who own PG&E are going to pay for the maintenance out of their own pockets, do you?



Because the owners and managers of PG&E will benefit financially since a bailout would mean that more of the PG&E profits would be available for distribution as dividends and bonuses.



Because the owners of PG&E would benefit since less of the PG&E income would have to be diverted to pay PG&E's outstanding debts. That means higher profits. Higher profits means larger dividends and also mean higher bonuses for management for producing those higher profits.



If you only allowed PG&E high enough rates to do their jobs, then there wouldn't be any profits to distribute to the owners of PG&E and that means that there would be no reason for the owners of PG&E to continue to operate PG&E.

What "Just allow them high enough rates to do their jobs." implies is <scary voice> **P*U*B*L*I*C** **O*W*N*E*R*S*H*I*P**</scary voice> and that means <scary voice>**S*O*C*I*A*L*I*S*M**</scary voice> and that means that Obama/Clinton and their <scary DJT voice>left-wing, liberal, pinko, commies will have destroyed America and the next thing you know everyone will be living under Sherry Law with its mandatory same-sex, inter-racial, so-called "marriages" where everyone is forced to have abortions by the Death Panels AND all the cheerleaders have to wear Burke Hats</scary DJT voice>.

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Higher utility rates should provide for both proper maintenance and a nice profit. But then again, some people HATE Capitalism. They think a Socialist bureaucracy would be more efficient. Dream on......

Waddy said:

Higher utility rates should provide for both proper maintenance and a nice profit.

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Absolutely, it's very important that companies have legislatively mandated profits.

Waddy said:

But then again, some people HATE Capitalism.

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And some people recognize how it works.

Personally I have absolutely no problem with "competitive capitalism". I do, however, have quite a bit of difficulty with "monopoly capitalism" and have even more difficulty with "state mandated monopoly capitalism with state mandated profits".

Waddy said:

They think a Socialist bureaucracy would be more efficient. Dream on......

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You might be interested in taking a look at the Wikipedia article on "BC Hydro and Power Authority".

BC's hydro rates average around $0.0945 per kWh and California's average around $0.199 per kWh.

BC Hydro is a "NOT for profit" and PG&E isn't.

Hmmmmmmmm???

TU Curmudgeon said:

Absolutely, it's very important that companies have legislatively mandated profits.



And some people recognize how it works.

Personally I have absolutely no problem with "competitive capitalism". I do, however, have quite a bit of difficulty with "monopoly capitalism" and have even more difficulty with "state mandated monopoly capitalism with state mandated profits".



You might be interested in taking a look at the Wikipedia article on "BC Hydro and Power Authority".

BC's hydro rates average around $0.0945 per kWh and California's average around $0.199 per kWh.

BC Hydro is a "NOT for profit" and PG&E isn't.

Hmmmmmmmm???

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Comparing apples and oranges. Utilities should be paid for by the users. And I'm all for competition. Talk to the state rep about allowing other players into the market.

Waddy said:

Comparing apples and oranges.

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Would you like to tell me how comparing one electric utility company to another electric utility company is "Comparing apples and oranges."?

Waddy said:

Utilities should be paid for by the users.

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Are you trying to tell me that I do NOT get electric bills?

Waddy said:

And I'm all for competition. Talk to the state rep about allowing other players into the market.

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Absolutely! Competition is essential. <SARC>Not only that but there should be MORE than two companies competing with each other (to discourage the formation of informal cartels. The ONLY way that California can stop the scourge of PG&E is to allow (a minimum of) three competing electric utilities, with three (a minimum of) three competing HT transmission lines from source to service area and (a minimum of) three competing sets of utility poles and MT distribution lines in every service area.</SARC>

TU Curmudgeon said:

Would you like to tell me how comparing one electric utility company to another electric utility company is "Comparing apples and oranges."?



Are you trying to tell me that I do NOT get electric bills?



Absolutely! Competition is essential. <SARC>Not only that but there should be MORE than two companies competing with each other (to discourage the formation of informal cartels. The ONLY way that California can stop the scourge of PG&E is to allow (a minimum of) three competing electric utilities, with three (a minimum of) three competing HT transmission lines from source to service area and (a minimum of) three competing sets of utility poles and MT distribution lines in every service area.</SARC>

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Doesn't have to work that way. Don't need three sets of everything. Each company could compete for the contract, which can include what level of maintenance they will perform, and what rates they would charge. It's done all the time with cell phones and cable companies.

TU Curmudgeon said:

If the CEO set a "Do not do any maintenance unless it absolutely has to be done IMMEDIATELY (or else our profits will decline)." then the fact that maintenance is not done is NOT a "non sequitur" because it DOES "follow in sequence".

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“If”. Where is the evidence of this “if”?

Waddy said:

Doesn't have to work that way. Don't need three sets of everything. Each company could compete for the contract, which can include what level of maintenance they will perform, and what rates they would charge. It's done all the time with cell phones and cable companies.

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Would you like to tell me who would own the actual infrastructure?

If "Greedy Electric" owned the HT transmission lines and then lost the electric distribution contract to "Grasping Hydro", exactly how would "Grasping Hydro" get the power from the dams (which were owned by "MegaLectric" to the area where it was supposed to be providing the electric utility service unless it paid whatever rates "Grasping Hydro" felt like charging for its NON-Individual consumer service of delivering BULK electricity (which is a service that is NOT generally regulated by state "public utility commissions")?

Cell phones do NOT rely on hard wiring and the general tendency with regard to "cable" companies is that there is only one of them in any given area (and that one owns all of the "cables"). This is generally achieved by the "cable" companies agreeing NOT to compete with each other.

Aberration said:

“If”. Where is the evidence of this “if”?

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It appears that you do not quite understand what the "IF ... THEN ..." sentence construction indicates.

Please get back to me when you do.

TU Curmudgeon said:

Would you like to tell me who would own the actual infrastructure?

If "Greedy Electric" owned the HT transmission lines and then lost the electric distribution contract to "Grasping Hydro", exactly how would "Grasping Hydro" get the power from the dams (which were owned by "MegaLectric" to the area where it was supposed to be providing the electric utility service unless it paid whatever rates "Grasping Hydro" felt like charging for its NON-Individual consumer service of delivering BULK electricity (which is a service that is NOT generally regulated by state "public utility commissions")?

Cell phones do NOT rely on hard wiring and the general tendency with regard to "cable" companies is that there is only one of them in any given area (and that one owns all of the "cables"). This is generally achieved by the "cable" companies agreeing NOT to compete with each other.

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Cable companies compete all the time. So do cell phone companies. And even if you have a monopoly, the state can mandate a certain level of maintenance, as well as set rates that support that maintenance and still produce a profit. It ain't rocket science. It's whatever everybody agrees to. Apparently California is pretty lax on insisting maintenance be done properly. They seem to prefer blackouts.

Waddy said:

Cable companies compete all the time.

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Do they really?

Waddy said:

So do cell phone companies.

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Indeed. Of course there is no need for "CellCoA" to use the airwaves of "CellCoB" to transmit, is there?

And, of course, "CellCoA" and "CellCoB" have "an arrangement" whereby each will allow customers of the other to call their customers.

Waddy said:

And even if you have a monopoly, the state can mandate a certain level of maintenance, as well as set rates that support that maintenance and still produce a profit.

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Ahhh! Now you are talking about that left-wing, liberal, socialist, pinko, commie **S*T*A*T*E** **C*O*N*T*R*O*L** that all patriotic, real, patriotic, true, patriotic, conservative, patriotic, Christian patriotic, White, patriotic, American, patriotic, patriots are unalterably opposed to.

Waddy said:

It's whatever everybody agrees to.

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Rammed down the throats off free-thinking, independent, patriotic, real, patriotic, true, patriotic, conservative, patriotic, Christian patriotic, White, patriotic, Americans who disagree with it by left-wing, liberal, socialist, pinko, commie **S*T*A*T*E** **C*O*N*T*R*O*L** in violation of the freedoms that every free-thinking, independent, patriotic, real, patriotic, true, patriotic, conservative, patriotic, Christian patriotic, White, patriotic, American is entitled to and as the Founding Fathers Originally Intended.

Waddy said:

Apparently California is pretty lax on insisting maintenance be done properly. They seem to prefer blackouts.

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A little personal inconvenience is the price you have to pay to preserve the freedom from arbitrary **S*T*A*T*E** **C*O*N*T*R*O*L** that is the birthright of every free-thinking, independent, patriotic, real, patriotic, true, patriotic, conservative, patriotic, Christian patriotic, White, patriotic, American that was bequeathed to them by the Founding Fathers in their victorious struggle to throw off the yoke of an oppressive and controlling government.

[The above form of "Internet Rebuttal" has been specifically and officially approved and endorsed by "Devoted Online Lovers of Trump" Inc. (a non-partisan, independent, research and analysis organization exempt from federal taxation that is dedicated to bringing you the true truth and not the false truth that anyone who doesn't believe 100% of what Donald Trump says tries to tell you the so-called "facts" are), "Pro-Life United Gun Enthusiasts and Manufacturers for Jesus", and “"The ‘First Amendment Rights Trust’ Foundation”.]

TU Curmudgeon said:

Do they really?



Indeed. Of course there is no need for "CellCoA" to use the airwaves of "CellCoB" to transmit, is there?

And, of course, "CellCoA" and "CellCoB" have "an arrangement" whereby each will allow customers of the other to call their customers.



Ahhh! Now you are talking about that left-wing, liberal, socialist, pinko, commie **S*T*A*T*E** **C*O*N*T*R*O*L** that all patriotic, real, patriotic, true, patriotic, conservative, patriotic, Christian patriotic, White, patriotic, American, patriotic, patriots are unalterably opposed to.



Rammed down the throats off free-thinking, independent, patriotic, real, patriotic, true, patriotic, conservative, patriotic, Christian patriotic, White, patriotic, Americans who disagree with it by left-wing, liberal, socialist, pinko, commie **S*T*A*T*E** **C*O*N*T*R*O*L** in violation of the freedoms that every free-thinking, independent, patriotic, real, patriotic, true, patriotic, conservative, patriotic, Christian patriotic, White, patriotic, American is entitled to and as the Founding Fathers Originally Intended.



A little personal inconvenience is the price you have to pay to preserve the freedom from arbitrary **S*T*A*T*E** **C*O*N*T*R*O*L** that is the birthright of every free-thinking, independent, patriotic, real, patriotic, true, patriotic, conservative, patriotic, Christian patriotic, White, patriotic, American that was bequeathed to them by the Founding Fathers in their victorious struggle to throw off the yoke of an oppressive and controlling government.

[The above form of "Internet Rebuttal" has been specifically and officially approved and endorsed by "Devoted Online Lovers of Trump" Inc. (a non-partisan, independent, research and analysis organization exempt from federal taxation that is dedicated to bringing you the true truth and not the false truth that anyone who doesn't believe 100% of what Donald Trump says tries to tell you the so-called "facts" are), "Pro-Life United Gun Enthusiasts and Manufacturers for Jesus", and “"The ‘First Amendment Rights Trust’ Foundation”.]

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You're not really into rational discussion. You just want to rant against the Capitalists and President Trump. Go ahead, enjoy. I prefer to talk with adults. Trump Derangement Syndrome strikes again.

Waddy said:

You're not really into rational discussion. You just want to rant against the Capitalists and President Trump. Go ahead, enjoy. I prefer to talk with adults. Trump Derangement Syndrome strikes again.

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There are, indeed, days when I think that the


bit is just a tad overly subtle.

TU Curmudgeon said:

Do they really?



Indeed. Of course there is no need for "CellCoA" to use the airwaves of "CellCoB" to transmit, is there?

And, of course, "CellCoA" and "CellCoB" have "an arrangement" whereby each will allow customers of the other to call their customers.



Ahhh! Now you are talking about that left-wing, liberal, socialist, pinko, commie **S*T*A*T*E** **C*O*N*T*R*O*L** that all patriotic, real, patriotic, true, patriotic, conservative, patriotic, Christian patriotic, White, patriotic, American, patriotic, patriots are unalterably opposed to.



Rammed down the throats off free-thinking, independent, patriotic, real, patriotic, true, patriotic, conservative, patriotic, Christian patriotic, White, patriotic, Americans who disagree with it by left-wing, liberal, socialist, pinko, commie **S*T*A*T*E** **C*O*N*T*R*O*L** in violation of the freedoms that every free-thinking, independent, patriotic, real, patriotic, true, patriotic, conservative, patriotic, Christian patriotic, White, patriotic, American is entitled to and as the Founding Fathers Originally Intended.



A little personal inconvenience is the price you have to pay to preserve the freedom from arbitrary **S*T*A*T*E** **C*O*N*T*R*O*L** that is the birthright of every free-thinking, independent, patriotic, real, patriotic, true, patriotic, conservative, patriotic, Christian patriotic, White, patriotic, American that was bequeathed to them by the Founding Fathers in their victorious struggle to throw off the yoke of an oppressive and controlling government.

[The above form of "Internet Rebuttal" has been specifically and officially approved and endorsed by "Devoted Online Lovers of Trump" Inc. (a non-partisan, independent, research and analysis organization exempt from federal taxation that is dedicated to bringing you the true truth and not the false truth that anyone who doesn't believe 100% of what Donald Trump says tries to tell you the so-called "facts" are), "Pro-Life United Gun Enthusiasts and Manufacturers for Jesus", and “"The ‘First Amendment Rights Trust’ Foundation”.]

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:lamo