White House Declares War on Impeachment Inquiry, Alleging Effort to Undo Trump’s Election

roguenuke said:

Investigate him for what? If the DOJ has some sort of evidence that Schiff has done something illegal, then they have the power to investigate him.

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Yeah, but guess what? In such an event, Congress would have rights as a co-equal branch of the Executive. The DOJ can't just march in and say 'Give us what we ask for, else it's obstruction."

Athanasius68 said:

Maybe so. But that is a political issue that those 10's of millions can address with their elected representatives.

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A political issue?

The protections and principles of the Constitution are not conditional and up to the whims of a political party. They are fundamental and continuous.

ocean515 said:

A political issue?

The protections and principles of the Constitution are not conditional and up to the whims of a political party. They are fundamental and continuous.

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And will be afforded at trial

ocean515 said:

A political issue?

The protections and principles of the Constitution are not conditional and up to the whims of a political party. They are fundamental and continuous.

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It's a political issue. As the Constitution the House had "sole power" of impeachment. They can proceed as they wish.
That is also a constitutional principle

Not going to win fighting on this battlefield.

Athanasius68 said:

Under Federal law, obstructing Congress can only occur during the work of a committee, or the House as a whole.
No commitee, nor has the House as a whole, voted for an impeachment inquiry.
Legally, there is nothing for the Trump Admin to obstruct.
Thus, there is no inquiry.

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There was a vote on 9/12/19 along party lines. It's a done deal as to the impeachment inquiry.

Athanasius68 said:

It's a political issue. As the Constitution the House had "sole power" of impeachment. They can proceed as they wish.
That is also a constitutional principle

Not going to win fighting on this battlefield.

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The can proceed as they wish. They can sit in a circle and masturbate each other.

But in this case, the President and his staff have no obligation to participate.

Due Process is not conditional. It's fundamental. The Mutual Masturbation Society can pump away, and that will never change.

Airyaman said:

It's obvious what they are trying to do: run out the clock and/or play chicken with Democrats in the House. They know that there are only two choices: the House votes to impeach, and the Senate does not convict, or the Dems go through the courts and this thing goes on for months.

Hate to say this, but as bad as this looks, Trump is winning in this one. Dems better hope they can find a smoking gun without testimony.

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The longer this takes, the worse it will be for Trump, not Dems. It doesnt look good for him to stall to those outside his small (relatively) group of supporters. And he needs more reasonable voters to be reelected. Dems don't have to get him completely removed from office through this process (passed thru the Senate) to get Trump out of office. They just have to make it highly distasteful to vote for Trump rather than the Dem or not at all.

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bluesmoke said:

There was a vote on 9/12/19 along party lines. It's a done deal as to the impeachment inquiry.

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Nope. The Constitution states the House has sole power of impeachment.
Not comittees thereof.

ocean515 said:

I would suggest that removing a duly elected President of the United States from office not only penalizes the person removed, but the 10's of millions of US Citizens who put that person there.

You might want to learn how Constitutional Rights work.

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You don't have a constitutional right to hold any office you want. You have a constitutional right to run for office, provided you meet the requirements, but that office does not belong to you like your life, liberty and property do. That office belongs to the people. And those people, millions and millions of them voted for their Representatives in Congress who have the power of oversight of the Executive. That's also in the Constitution. You might want to read up that. Boy.

Pound4abrown said:

I hope they do. Make sure to run it live on Infowars.

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It'll be all over every network. Maddow won't shutup about it, so you'll catch the whole mess...lol

Master Debator said:

You don't have a constitutional right to hold any office you want. You have a constitutional right to run for office, provided you meet the requirements, but that office does not belong to you like you life, liberty and property do. That office belongs to the people. And those people, millions and millions of them voted for their Representatives in Congress who have the power of oversight of the Executive. That's also in the Constitution. You might want to read up that. Boy.

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Please do not refer to me as "Boy". That is offensive to me, and will get you reported every time.

Let me know when the right to due process applies in your world.

Athanasius68 said:

I did-- the House of reps have sole power of impeachment.

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They have sole power, nowhere does it say an inquiry requires a vote...so no, you didn't show anything. Now articles of impeachment require a vote, but this is a preliminary investigation

ClaraD said:

They have sole power, nowhere does it say an inquiry requires a vote...so no, you didn't show anything. Now articles of impeachment require a vote, but this is a preliminary investigation

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Of what?

And since the right of due process has been removed from the subject of the investigation, there is no reciprocal requirement to participate in it.

ocean515 said:

Of what?

And since the right of due process has been removed from the subject of the investigation, there is no reciprocal requirement to participate in it.

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Due process is afforded at trial.....not during investigation

Republicans and their incessant want for an Authoritarian Dictator... is a subversive Atrocity in American Democracy...
A violation and desecration of elements of our Declaration of Independence.

These are only a short list of the atrocities cast upon America by Trump and Republicans:

Trump:
He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

Trump:
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

Trump:
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

Trump:
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

Trump:
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

Trump:
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

Trump:
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

Trump:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

Trump:
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

Trump:
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us


He must be removed from office and the just punishment would be "a life sentence to our most secure prisons"... and those engaged and enjoined with him, must face their due justice.

The true "Deep State"....Is... The Confederacy Idealist who are still fighting the battle of Confederacy Agenda and doing so from "within our government system" by the Right Wing Confederate Republican collective

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they try to turn the people aware from respect and trust in our government and they seek to do the same by trying to turn people away from the truths the media present's... as they promote Right Wing media pundits to confound and confuse the people, while filling them with drama spins and vitriol of every type.

They (Republican Confederacy) is a Danger to Every Democracy Loving American.... so... Democracy Loving People STOP waffling and being caught up in the confusions these Republican Confederates promote, and for once, in this 21st Century... Be wise enough and Stand Up... and do not to be so easily made confounded by the collusive acts of Republican Confederate Agenda.

Know your own mind and heart and go back and Read The Declaration of Independence, Go Read The Preamble, and then invest yourself to Read, Learn, and Understand The Constitution.... Then you won't continue to fall victim into and unto the antics of Modern Day Republican Confederacy Agenda and its Aims of Plutocratic Autocracy and their Authoritarian Aspirations.

It's time for people wake up, and "STOP"!!!! trying to straddle the fence of old systems of white nationalism and "RESPECT AMERICA AND THE AMERICAN GOVERNANCE THAT "WE THE PEOPLE" HAVE BUILT!!!

Khayembii Communique said:

The Constitution establishes Congress as a co-equal branch of government.

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My only quibble is that Congress is the preeminent branch. Coordinate power is not equal power. Unfortunately, the rot is so deep the timbers are failing.

ocean515 said:

Please do not refer to me as "Boy". That is offensive to me, and will get you reported every time.

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I know you do. That's what makes it funny. :lamo

It's amusing time to time to get confirmation on who it is that really needs a safe space.

ocean515 said:

Let me know when the right to due process applies in your world.

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Another transparent rhetorical trick rather than an actual argument. Who here is surprised? :yawn:

It's a statement meant to imply an argument rather than actually make one, because if you ever actually made an argument you'd have to back it up.

So ocean, who is being denied due process?

roguenuke said:

The longer this takes, the worse it will be for Trump, not Dems. It doesnt look good for him to stall to those outside his small (relatively) group of supporters. And he needs more reasonable voters to be reelected. Dems don't have to get him completely removed from office through this process (passed thru the Senate) to get Trump out of office. They just have to make it highly distasteful to vote for Trump rather than the Dem or not at all.

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are you kidding?

wishful thinking on your part....

do you have any idea what the public sentiment was against Nixon before he resigned?

How the Watergate crisis eroded public support for Richard Nixon | Pew Research Center

take a look at THESE numbers

that is what you call a mandate....includes republicans, democrats, and independents

this is ALSO the standard by which we will measure today's hearings....

if you cant get republicans and independents on board IN VAST numbers....your ship isnt sailing

take a look at polling today.....you barely have a majority in some polls that even want the inquiry, much less impeachment

and if the case is as lackluster as Mueller's was....the democratic party is TOAST come Nov 2020

ocean515 said:

I would suggest that removing a duly elected President of the United States from office not only penalizes the person removed, but the 10's of millions of US Citizens who put that person there.

You might want to learn how Constitutional Rights work.

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That may be a legitimate suggestion if we were talking about a legitimate president rather than our very first illegitimate president...

Athanasius68 said:

Impeachment is a political act. Let the Democrats be accountable for their actions.

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Impeachment is a constitutional act, as it is laid out in the Constitution itself.

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GDViking said:

That may be a legitimate suggestion if we were talking about a legitimate president rather than our very first illegitimate president...

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the CT section is that way ------->

:lamo

still trying to turn back an election from 30 odd months ago....

so sad....

gdgyva said:

the CT section is that way ------->

:lamo

still trying to turn back an election from 30 odd months ago....

so sad....

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Did you see the bipartisan report on the Russian influence???

Boy, that is some especially egregious ignorance of history.
Did you even read the article you cited? It completely refutes your argument,. In fact, the point of the article is the opposite of your hypothesis:

gdgyva said:

do you have any idea what the public sentiment was against Nixon before he resigned?

How the Watergate crisis eroded public support for Richard Nixon | Pew Research Center

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Nixon won reelection handily. His approval then was 68%. Over the course of the year, plus, of Watergate hearings, that approval plunged. Trump's approval is already low. It is going lower. A majority of Americans want an inquiry, including 25% of REPUBLICANS. That is exactly the course that preceded Nixon's resignation. It Took A Long Time For Republicans to Abandon Nixon (FiveThirtyEight).

ocean515 said:

Under what circumstances are Constitutional Rights suspended?

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I have no idea what you think you are talking about. Be specific.

Athanasius68 said:

Under Federal law, obstructing Congress can only occur during the work of a committee, or the House as a whole.
No commitee, nor has the House as a whole, voted for an impeachment inquiry.
Legally, there is nothing for the Trump Admin to obstruct.
Thus, there is no inquiry.

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You failed to quote what was asked of you.