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Betsy DeVos Could Face Jail After Judge Rules She Violated 2018 Order on Student Loans

ocean515 said:
What are the rules and process for applying for a Borrower Defense to Repayment dismissal of student loans?

I know, do you?
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ocean515 said:
There is nothing that supports the claim that the ED has ceased to forgive the loans.

How long does it take to process the applications? Are the applications complete? How many have submitted their applications?

Do you have answers to any of those relative and important questions?
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If you could make an honest and intelligent point, you wouldn't have to ask so many questions.
 
JasperL said:
Sure there is, unless you're just dismissing the entire story as FAKE NEWS!!!

The judge just ruled that she's in violation of the order 16,000 times. The data show she's effectively ceased processing applications, and even if they get around to processing them, they're summarily denied.

Here's a funny/disgusting story, from GAO:

U.S. GAO - Public Service Loan Forgiveness: Improving the Temporary Expanded Process Could Help Reduce Borrower Confusion



And what's the approval rate under Devos? 1%! Congress appropriated $700 million, Scrooge Devos has kept that number below $27 million!

How about the PSLF program?



Look at that - a rejection rate of more than 99%!

So, no, she hasn't ceased forgiving loans, just made the process overly burdensome and loan forgiveness arbitrary, and still only available to those who spend months, dozens of phone calls, letters, etc. to jump through the hoops, hence the <1% approval rate.
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Are you pimping for student loan forgiveness in general?

Seems that way, since you are making claims out of vapors. Do you know anything about the claims that were submitted?

What proof do you have that those 99% have been rejected? What proof do you have that those 99% should have been accepted?

Full disclosure, I don't think a single student loan should be forgiven, so I'm probably coming from a place that is polar opposite from you.
 
Vern said:
If you could make an honest and intelligent point, you wouldn't have to ask so many questions.
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If I knew you were going to read them, I wouldn't make them so difficult. I have sympathy for those with challenges.
 
I hope she does go to jail. She was clearly not qualified for her job, only nominated for the job because her brother was part of the Trump/Russia collusion, only got the job because of blatant partisanship, she does not know what she is doing, she is actively working to undermine public education and she is screwing over average Americans.

I'm completely fine with that piece of garbage going away.
tres borrachos said:
She bought her way into that job. She is corrupt as Hell.
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More accurately, her brother was part of the scheme/plot which helped bring Russian interference into our election to help Trump win.
JasperL said:
That's what kills me about this woman. She did buy her way into the job, apparently to protect the profits of corrupt for profit schools like Trump University to defraud students and STILL force those defrauded to repay the loans. I can't imagine why a person with vast wealth like that would want to take that job on.
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I don't know if she "bought" her way into the job, but I do know her brother is Erik Prince and you should see the Google hits you get when you search for "Erik Prince russia collusion". It will make quite a bit of sense then why DeVos is in that job.
ocean515 said:
Full disclosure, I don't think a single student loan should be forgiven, so I'm probably coming from a place that is polar opposite from you.
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That's interesting...you think the federal government should be able to convince college students to take out loans at laughably high interest rates under the false promises (read: lies) those loans will be forgiven if the student meets the requirements of the loan which promise forgiveness (requirements which often include working in an economically depressed area for lower income)?

In other words, you think it is okay for the federal government to lie and cheat and scam kids, an action which would be illegal if any private bank did it?

Somehow I am not surprised by that, especially since we all know you are only okay with it if it is a Republican who is doing it.
 
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Slyfox696 said:
That's interesting...you think the federal government should be able to convince college students to take out loans at laughably high interest rates under the false promises (read: lies) those loans will be forgiven if the student meets the requirements of the loan which promise forgiveness (requirements which often include working in an economically depressed area for lower income)?

In other words, you think it is okay for the federal government to lie and cheat and scam kids, an action which would be illegal if any private bank did it?

Somehow I am not surprised by that, especially since we all know you are only okay with it if it is a Republican who is doing it.
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LOL

I think the whole college/loan thing is one of the great crimes of the 21st Century. I think it ensnared gullible and extremely immature children into a scam that enriched the education racket, who at this point, continues to be insulated.

Nobody put a gun to the heads of these gullible and extremely immature children to sign loans and go to college. These children need to start acting like adults, and live up to their promises and decisions.

The fact they want forgiveness proves they still haven't grown up. The way they are acting indicates they probably never will.
 
roughdraft274 said:
Trump supporters no longer support the rule of law nor the constitution. They are absolutely disgusting.
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They never have. They have been lying to us their entire lives.

Which I've been pointing out for decades. This is the same Rush Limbaugh crowd that has been fake forever.
 
ocean515 said:
LOL

I think the whole college/loan thing is one of the great crimes of the 21st Century. I think it ensnared gullible and extremely immature children into a scam that enriched the education racket, who at this point, continues to be insulated.

Nobody put a gun to the heads of these gullible and extremely immature children to sign loans and go to college. These children need to start acting like adults, and live up to their promises and decisions.

The fact they want forgiveness proves they still haven't grown up. The way they are acting indicates they probably never will.
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Yeah, not surprisingly, you completely avoided the point to engage in useless vomiting of partisan rhetoric.

The point is that one of the conditions of the laughably high interest rate loans was loan forgiveness, should the loan applicant meet the requirements for forgiveness. I don't know where you live, but where I am from we have something called "contracts" and this was a contract between the lender and the student. The student fulfilled their end of the contract, but now the lender is not wanting to fulfill theirs. The children ARE acting like adults and they DID live up to their promises and decisions, it is the federal government, and in this case Betsy DeVos, who are not living up to their promises and decisions. Your comment is as unquestionably stupid as it is blatantly partisan.

The fact you are okay with the federal government scamming kids is not surprising given that it is a Republican doing it. I have no doubt that were it a Democrat doing it, you'd be here telling us how awful Democrats are for scamming kids.

Try an honest post in reply, one where you address there is a written agreement between the two parties. Let's see how it goes.
 
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Slyfox696 said:
Yeah, not surprisingly, you completely avoided the point.

The point is that one of the conditions of the laughably high interest rate loans was loan forgiveness, should the loan applicant meet the requirements for forgiveness. I don't know where you live, but where I am from we have something called "contracts" and this was a contract between the lender and the student. The student fulfilled their end of the contract, but now the lender is not wanting to fulfill theirs.

The fact you are okay with the federal government scamming kids is not surprising given that it is a Republican doing it. I have no doubt that were it a Democrat doing it, you'd be here telling us how awful Democrats are for scamming kids.

Try an honest post in reply, one where you address there is a written agreement between the two parties. Let's see how it goes.
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Oh bull****.

Go sell your dishonest bull somewhere else.

I'm from a place where you live up to your contractual obligations.

You don't invent fiction to imply every student loan carries some high interest/forgiveness provision.

All you've done is proven the point about gullible and extremely immature.
 
JasperL said:
Sure there is, unless you're just dismissing the entire story as FAKE NEWS!!!

The judge just ruled that she's in violation of the order 16,000 times. The data show she's effectively ceased processing applications, and even if they get around to processing them, they're summarily denied.

Here's a funny/disgusting story, from GAO:

U.S. GAO - Public Service Loan Forgiveness: Improving the Temporary Expanded Process Could Help Reduce Borrower Confusion



And what's the approval rate under Devos? 1%! Congress appropriated $700 million, Scrooge Devos has kept that number below $27 million!

How about the PSLF program?



Look at that - a rejection rate of more than 99%!

So, no, she hasn't ceased forgiving loans, just made the process overly burdensome and loan forgiveness arbitrary, and still only available to those who spend months, dozens of phone calls, letters, etc. to jump through the hoops, hence the <1% approval rate.
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Let's face it, for those who support trump and this administration no amount of factual evidence matters one little bit. Sad to see how far the republican party has fallen. They literally stand for nothing other than money.
 
ocean515 said:
Oh bull****.

Go sell your dishonest bull somewhere else.
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You are blatantly posting lies about this situation by claiming the loan applicant did not live up to their end of the contract. I'm not the one selling dishonesty.

I'm from a place where you live up to your contractual obligations.
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Then why are you excusing the federal government for not living up to theirs? The student applicant lived up to their end of the contract. The federal government is not living up to theirs, as is required by law.

So why are you attacking those who fulfilled the terms of the contract rather than those who are not?

You don't invent fiction to imply every student loan carries some high interest/forgiveness provision.
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I never said ALL student loans do. I'm saying the ones that we are talking about, the ones that DeVos has denied at a 99% rate, are.

If you don't even know what we're discussing, why do you keep posting?

all you've done is proven the point about gullible and extremely immature.
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No, I've proven that you are posting falsehoods to defend a Republican, when we all know you would be (rightfully) castigating any Democrat who was doing the same thing.

You either don't know what you are talking about, don't understand how contracts work or are posting lies, but all of it is being done in the name of partisanship.
 
Slyfox696 said:
You are blatantly posting lies about this situation by claiming the loan applicant did not live up to their end of the contract. I'm not the one selling dishonesty.

Then why are you excusing the federal government for not living up to theirs? The student applicant lived up to their end of the contract. The federal government is not living up to theirs, as is required by law.

So why are you attacking those who fulfilled the terms of the contract rather than those who are not?

I never said ALL student loans do. I'm saying the ones that we are talking about, the ones that DeVos has denied at a 99% rate, are.

If you don't even know what we're discussing, why do you keep posting?

No, I've proven that you are posting falsehoods to defend a Republican, when we all know you would be (rightfully) castigating any Democrat who was doing the same thing.

You either don't know what you are talking about, don't understand how contracts work or are posting lies, but all of it is being done in the name of partisanship.
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I know exactly what I am talking about. It's a very big issue to me. The Education Complex has screwed millions of young people, and it pisses me off.

So take your partisan bull**** elsewhere.

If a student lived up to the contract, they wouldn't be looking for mommie to come to the rescue.
 
ocean515 said:
I know exactly what I am talking about.
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So then you're posting lies. Got it.

It's a very big issue to me. The Left has screwed millions of young people, and it pisses me off.
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I'm sorry, are you now trying to claim Betsy DeVos, the one heading the department screwing people, is "The Left"?

Do you even realize how stupid that sounds?

So take you bull**** elsewhere.
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You're posting lies for blatantly partisan reasons, even now insinuating Betsy DeVos is "The Left", which is so laughably false it hurts.

If a student lived up to the contract, they wouldn't be looking for mommie to come to the rescue.
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Again, you are posting lies.

The student DID live up to the contract. Why do you keep posting this lie? Part of the contract was loan forgiveness should the student meet the conditions (again, for example, spending time [I believe 10 years] working in an economically depressed area). The students are meeting the terms of the contract and the federal government is not.

Stop posting lies. The student DID live up to the contract. Stop letting your obvious partisanship to cause you to post obvious lies.
 
Slyfox696 said:
So then you're posting lies. Got it.

I'm sorry, are you now trying to claim Betsy DeVos, the one heading the department screwing people, is "The Left"?

Do you even realize how stupid that sounds?

You're posting lies for blatantly partisan reasons, even now insinuating Betsy DeVos is "The Left", which is so laughably false it hurts.

Again, you are posting lies.

The student DID live up to the contract. Why do you keep posting this lie? Part of the contract was loan forgiveness should the student meet the conditions (again, for example, spending time [I believe 10 years] working in an economically depressed area). The students are meeting the terms of the contract and the federal government is not.

Stop posting lies. The student DID live up to the contract. Stop letting your obvious partisanship to cause you to post obvious lies.
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Post a contract, or link to specific information regarding what you are claiming.

Or post a redacted version of you're contract you're trying to get me to pay off.
 
ocean515 said:
If I knew you were going to read them, I wouldn't make them so difficult. I have sympathy for those with challenges.
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debate is simple, make a point back it up. I see the concept continues to befuddle you.
 
ocean515 said:
Post a contract, or link to specific information regarding what you are claiming.
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You couldn't Google the PSLF program yourself?

https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service

Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) Help Tool

So this whole time you admit you have had no idea what you are talking about?

Or post a redacted version of you're contract you're trying to get me to pay off.
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You're not paying it off.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about, do you?
 
Slyfox696 said:
You couldn't Google the PSLF program yourself?

https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service

Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) Help Tool

So this whole time you admit you have had no idea what you are talking about?

You're not paying it off.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about, do you?
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Knock it off.

Yes, I am very familiar with the PSLF program. This whole student loan issue is a big deal to me. I've already written that.

Key provision:

However, your loan will only be forgiven if you meet all PSLF Program eligibility conditions.​

So how many applications don't meet all PSLF eligibility conditions?
 
ocean515 said:
Knock it off.
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Says the person repeatedly posting lies.

Yes, I am very familiar with the PSLF program. This whole student loan issue is a big deal to me. I've already written that.
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Then why are you posting so many lies about it?

Key provision:
However, your loan will only be forgiven if you meet all PSLF Program eligibility conditions.
​

So how many applications don't meet all PSLF eligibility conditions?
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According to Betsy DeVos, 99%. Which is just ridiculously unrealistic and is in no way consistent with the law. As the judge has already said.

That's the point. Betsy DeVos is violating the law, according to the judge. And DeVos is now, apparently, violating the judge's orders...all so her department can screw the average American despite the contract signed by the government with the student.

You're defending this practice because DeVos is a Republican. That's it. We all know it. DeVos is violating the law, apparently violating the judge's orders and is violating the terms of the contract between the government and the student. And you, ocean515, are defending it and posting lies about it because of the team she plays for.
 
Slyfox696 said:
Says the person repeatedly posting lies.

Then why are you posting so many lies about it?

According to Betsy DeVos, 99%. Which is just ridiculously unrealistic and is in no way consistent with the law. As the judge has already said.

That's the point. Betsy DeVos is violating the law, according to the judge. And DeVos is now, apparently, violating the judge's orders...all so her department can screw the average American despite the contract signed by the government with the student.

You're defending this practice because DeVos is a Republican. That's it. We all know it. DeVos is violating the law, apparently violating the judge's orders and is violating the terms of the contract between the government and the student. And you, ocean515, are defending it and posting lies about it because of the team she plays for.
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I don't respond to people who repeatedly call me a liar.

Good luck trying to get out of your obligations.
 
ocean515 said:
I don't respond to people who repeatedly call me a liar.
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I didn't call you a liar, I said you are repeatedly posting lies (which has 100% been proven true). And I've said it for many posts now, so how convenient you choose now to leave, when it has become so clear how little you understand what you are talking about and how your position is full of falsehoods and partisanship.

Good luck trying to get out of your obligations.
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:lol:

The state of Missouri paid me to go to school, to the tune of about $1300 a year. I'm not posting because I want out of any kind of loans, I'm posting because DeVos should go away and because you are constantly posting lies due to blatant partisanship.
Master Debator said:
Run along now then, boy.
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:lol:

It's so funny to watch people who know they are so clearly outclassed in a debate try to find ways to get out of it without admitting they have been wrong the whole time.
 
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