• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

White House releases memo of Trump-Ukraine call

marke said:
You have found liberals in Ukraine who said Biden was doing the right thing by pressuring their president to get rid of the prosecutor who was investigating the mob for which Hunter Biden was working? Those leftists are the minority because the majority support the president of Ukraine whom they elected. Minority opinion in Ukraine, like minority opinion in America, will just have to take the back seat. Trump and the president of Ukraine said there was no pressure, so to hell with the dissenting opinions of the minority.
Click to expand...

LOL Yes they must be liberals if they are against corruption and Putin's corrupt influence. We all know you guys just love Putin and are overjoyed that Trump does everything to make him happy. Like wanting to bring back his corrupt prosecutor so he could make up stuff about the Biden's. Too bad this is America and not Russia and we still have good people in our Govt. who will not be swayed into corrupt behavior by Trump and know that he is a traitor to all we hold dear.

For years, Ukrainian anti-corruption activists like Daria Kaleniuk looked to the United States for support in her country’s fight against graft and fake news. The Moscow-backed takeover of Crimea and eastern Ukraine was ground zero for Russian disinformation that spread across the world. Corruption was so pervasive in Ukraine that voters opted for a comedian with no political experience, Volodymyr Zelensky, who defeated the incumbent president by nearly 50 percent in elections last spring.

But the release of a July 25 memo detailing a conversation between U.S. President Donald Trump and Zelensky has, for many Ukrainians, turned the United States from a model of good governance and truth into a dispiriting example of the very kind of corruption and disinformation they are battling.

“We have faced intimidation and manipulation in Ukraine for quite a long time. Now this is happening at the highest possible level of the United States, where the personal lawyer of the president of the United States is carrying out speculation and manipulation,” said Kaleniuk, the executive director of Ukraine’s Anti-Corruption Action Center, a Kyiv-based watchdog group. “Usually the United States [was] the key [ally] of Ukrainian civil society to stop political pressure into law enforcement investigations. But I am reading the transcript where the president of the United States is doing the contrary than what we were encouraged to do.”
The chief beneficiary of this behavior will be the Kremlin, say Ukrainian activists and Western officials involved with Ukraine. They believe Trump is playing into the hands of Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has engaged in a yearslong disinformation war to portray the United States and European Union as weak as a way of laying claim to Crimea and political domination of Ukraine. Trump’s casual comment to Zelensky, during their meeting at the U.N. General Assembly gathering on Wednesday, that “I really hope that you and President Putin can get together and solve your problem” also reinforced the Kremlin line.
Click to expand...

Ukraine Reacts: Trump’s Call Is Putin’s Victory – Foreign Policy
 
Last edited:
marke said:
You cannot claim your biased assumption has merit on the basis of some supposed weakness in proving a hypothetical scenario.
Click to expand...

What would Trump have to do for you to support him being impeached? Just curious, because I sort of get the impression you are the type of Trump supporter that would be okay with him shooting someone to death on 5th avenue.
 
marke said:
You cannot claim your biased assumption has merit on the basis of some supposed weakness in proving a hypothetical scenario.
Click to expand...

Lol, you know intent is almost always proved with circumstantial evidence right? And every single one of Trump's tweets is admissible evidence.
 
marke said:
No, you totally misunderstood, but I forgive you. I would not want to offend Obama supporters by suggesting Trump is a better president, or would I?

View attachment 67264992
Click to expand...

Lol, I wasn't the one who compared Trump to Jesus. Just because there's a cartoon about something, doesn't mean it's relevant. Plus, the golden calf motif is so much more appropriate than some giant stone head, don't you think?
 
digitusmedius said:
So, you're going for the "Christian" version of fascism (Christofascism, for short) then. Good to know. BTW, do you people ever read the words (i.e., the gospels according to your own beliefs) of the person you alleged worship? Or, just the "side notes" like the source you used above. Isn't there something about "rendering to Caesar" in those gospels? Did you also not get the message of our Constitution as well as numerous other historical documents that this is in no way, and never was intended to be, a "Christian nation" no matter how much your belief system indoctrinates you otherwise. So, working toward a "Christian only government" is, like many of the other things you people do and believe, is un-American in the extreme. If you were really honest people you'd stop waving the flag and singing the anthem and covering your hearts in these meaningless shows of patriotism even as you work to destroy the secular democratic and free country.
Click to expand...

I understand I reside in a Secular Republic/Democracy which has enabled the Country to enjoy many Freedoms. The freedom of religion being one of those protected Freedoms.

A Democratic/Socialist Secular Country has been known to suppress Freedoms.

We are not a Christian Nation and never have been a Christian Nation.

Christians simply reside in a Secular Nation with protections in place so that they were able to practice their faith. (That protection also applies to any other faiths)


Matthew 22:17-21

The opposition to Jesus asked Jesus a question.

:17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?

:18 Jesus percieved their wickedness, and said, why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?

:19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

:20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Note: The most important words Jesus used in bold.

I render unto the Secular Government the things that are secular.

I render unto God the things that are God's.

Romans 13:1-8

:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

:5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

:6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

:7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Note: According to the narrative we don't actually vote in the rulers of this world.

The rulers of this world are rulers by the power of God for God's purpose.

I am not the one resisting a ruler.

I'm accepting God's power and whatever purpose He has for a ruler.

Sorry for the Bible Study, but you left me no choice when you questioned my understanding of the Biblical narrative concerning this matter.

Roseann:)
 
marke said:
There was a lot of public support for impeaching Bill Clinton. Trump has not been accused of the crimes Clinton was charged with, so a different cause must be first uncovered before a legitimate impeachment can take place.
Click to expand...
Wrong. There was scant support for Clinton’s impeachment. After, his approval was 75%. The “crimes” were fiction too.

Not the same with #45. His crimes are high and wide and public support for impeachment is growing.
 
CharisRose said:
The "aid" The Ukrainian President wanted was not monetary. He wanted to buy more Javelins for defense purposes against Russia.

That kind of "aid" already happened during the Trump Presidency and The President of The Ukraine wants it to happen again.

And according to The Ukrainian President during that phone call they were almost ready to buy more Javelins for defense purposes.

At the point in time when they were discussing this "aid" they were not ready to buy more but were almost ready to buy.

Therefore the "favor" was not connected to the "aid" wanted by The President of Ukraine.

Favor - definition of favor by The Free Dictionary

favor - 1. A gracious, friendly, or obliging act that is freely granted: do someone a favor.

President Zelenskyy: Yes you are absolutely right. Not only 100%, but actually 1000% and I can tell you the following; I did talk to Angela Merkel and I did meet with her. I also met and talked with Macron and I told them that they are not doing quite as much as they need to be doing on the issues with the sanctions. They are not enforcing the sanctions. They are not working as much as they should work for Ukraine. It turns out that even though logically, the European Union should be our biggest partner but technically the United States is a much bigger partner than the European Union and I'm very grateful to you for that because the United States is doing quite a lot for Ukraine. Much more than the European Union especially when we are talking about sanctions against the Russiain Federation.I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.


The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. snipped

Trump Administration Approves New Weapons Sale to Ukraine, Bucking Putin

Trump Administration Approves New Weapons Sale to Ukraine, Bucking Putin

“This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by improving the security of Ukraine,” the State Department said.

Personal opinion, I rather doubt Trump would deny this kind of "aid" based on the fact he likes to use these types of "sales" as a political thumbs up kind of example...
He's helping out the Ukraine plus keeping businesses in business while their employees can keep their jobs via bringing in money from the Ukraine.

The President of Ukraine never mentioned any monetary "aid" that he was seeking from Trump.

He wanted to make another purchase of Javelins based on his much needed military protection that the U.S. could sell to him.

And, besides all that Trump could have said Yes, I will do that for you but you do understand that Congress has 30 days to nix that sale.

And things aren't going to good for me with Congress these days.

imho Roseann:)
Click to expand...
No. In regards to what Biden did, it was monetary aid that they were getting. Buying Javelins from us is a separate thing.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
 
marke said:
There have been many impeachment investigations over the entire span of the last 3 years. Democrats have abandoned one false allegation after another. For 3 years democrats have been demanding Trump be impeached, but for what? You name it. The latest is this bad interpretation of what Trump said to the Ukrainian president, but the allegations are barely two weeks old. Just give it a few more days and a new allegation will have to be raised from the ashes of failed past allegations again.
Click to expand...
And until they make a formal announcement yo actually investigate for impeachment, they don't have the same powers when it comes to interviewing witnesses or gathering evidence. This gives them that power to actually go after the recordings of Trump's phone calls, particularly that relate to the Ukraine.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
 
marke said:
Which of the following reports are known to be false and which are known to be true? Or, which might be true and which might be false?

1. Biden's son was on the payroll of a company being investigated by Ukrainian prosecutors at some point in the past.
2. Biden's son was on the Ukrainian company's payroll at the time Biden threatened the Ukrainian president.
3. Biden did not know his son was involved in the company.
4. Biden did not know the company paying his son was under investigation by Ukrainian prosecutors.
5. Biden did not brag to his supporters about forcing the Ukrainian president to do what he commanded him to do.
Click to expand...
None are relevant to what I asked you for. What was Hunter Biden (not Burisma) being investigated for and by who at that time?

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
 
marke said:
How convenient for Biden. He threatened the Ukrainian president to fire the prosecutor for allegedly being bad, and it just happened that Biden's son was then free from being investigated by that prosecutor who was investigating the mob which was paying him tens of thousands of dollars a month just for being on board.
Click to expand...
You still have failed to provide any real evidence Hunter Biden was being investigated or what even he would have been being investigated for.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
 
W_Heisenberg said:
Scott Pelley on CBS just now: "60Minutes has obtained a letter that indicates" the whistleblower "is under federal protection -- because he or she fears for their safety."

No doubt.
Click to expand...

I hardly see how the democrats can allow the whistleblower to be named after falsely claiming he or she is not a democrat patsy.
 
iguanaman said:
LOL Yes they must be liberals if they are against corruption and Putin's corrupt influence. We all know you guys just love Putin and are overjoyed that Trump does everything to make him happy. Like wanting to bring back his corrupt prosecutor so he could make up stuff about the Biden's. Too bad this is America and not Russia and we still have good people in our Govt. who will not be swayed into corrupt behavior by Trump and know that he is a traitor to all we hold dear.



Ukraine Reacts: Trump’s Call Is Putin’s Victory – Foreign Policy
Click to expand...

Hillary and the DNC conspired with Russians to cook up the phony Trump/Russian Steele dossier and they then blamed Trump for supposedly being in Putin's pocket, which is another democrat lie. Many Americans believe the lies even though facts prove them wrong, so that is why the democrats keep lying in hopes of improving their chances of winning in 2020.
 
CharisRose said:
Okay, then get back to me when the investigations are finished and the Impeachment begins and ends with a ruling.

Roseann:)
Click to expand...
How well do you think Trump would do in an election with an impeachment investigation going on? There's only about 13 months til the election. And we all know how much he loves to go to court. All the House has to do is calmly investigate this, professionally.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
 
W_Heisenberg said:
What would Trump have to do for you to support him being impeached? Just curious, because I sort of get the impression you are the type of Trump supporter that would be okay with him shooting someone to death on 5th avenue.
Click to expand...

I am opposed to impeaching any president, any court justice, or any government official of any party just because of political hatred and nothing more.
 
HAL9000 said:
Lol, you know intent is almost always proved with circumstantial evidence right? And every single one of Trump's tweets is admissible evidence.
Click to expand...

Hearsay evidence and biased assumptions and opinions are not admissible as legitimate evidences.
 
marke said:
Hearsay evidence and biased assumptions and opinions are not admissible as legitimate evidences.
Click to expand...

The whistleblower complaint is in line with the transcript per Trump-appointed acting DNI Maguire. Additionally, the facts have so far matched what has come out since.
 
MTAtech said:
Wrong. There was scant support for Clinton’s impeachment. After, his approval was 75%. The “crimes” were fiction too.

Not the same with #45. His crimes are high and wide and public support for impeachment is growing.
Click to expand...

It does not matter how much support the immoral promoters of political impeachment proceedings the democrats get, it is still wrong to seek for years to impeach Trump while looking the whole time for some reason to do it.
 
roguenuke said:
And until they make a formal announcement yo actually investigate for impeachment, they don't have the same powers when it comes to interviewing witnesses or gathering evidence. This gives them that power to actually go after the recordings of Trump's phone calls, particularly that relate to the Ukraine.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Ironically, Trump already released the phone conversation before they even asked for it all while they were claiming he was seeking to hide what he said in the conversation. Can democrats get any dumber?
 
marke said:
Dummass democrat logic twisted by delusional party line bias:

Trump asked the Ukrainian president to look into rumors of American political corruption involving Russians and Ukrainians. Rumors have been floating around in America of Joe Biden's crooked involvement with a Ukrainian prosecutor investigating a corrupt Ukrainian company which was paying his son more than a half millions dollars per year. That was one of the issues Trump mentioned so he must have brought it up because he was trying to dig up dirt on a political opponent. Let's impeach his azz! We finally have got him after so many fruitless years of trying!
Click to expand...
We call such "rumors" here conspiracy theories because they have no real evidence to support them and are generally from a standpoint of simply trying to disparage a political opponent or someone those people who make up the theory don't like.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
 
HAL9000 said:
Why don't you look stuff up, instead of just making stuff up?

The aid was monetary. Period.

Where do you think Ukraine is getting the money to purchase Javelins?

From us.

Why were they almost ready to buy more Javelins?

Because they were expecting money from us soon.

KyivPost 3/13/19:US draft defense budget involves $250 million to strengthen Ukraine’s security

Fiscal Year 2019 National Defense Authorization Act Chairman’s Mark Summary:
Click to expand...

Then please explain the following sentence use of the words we are almost ready to buy more Javelins...

"We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes."

Those words make no sense using your idea that the Ukraine President was expecting monetary aid to buy those Javelins.

He would have mentioned (reminding Trump) that he was waiting for that monetary aid from the U.S. in order to buy some more Javelins.

Instead, he told Trump we are almost ready to buy more Javelins... sounds more like he was close to having enough out of his pocket money to buy Javelins.

And, that he wasn't willing to wait for the monetary aid he would eventually get from the U.S.

QUOTE from your article follows...

"It is noted that the budget request should be discussed in the U.S. Congress, where changes and annexes can be made, so the real amounts of assistance to Ukraine will be known after the completion of the entire document passage process."

He wants to purchase those Javelins as quickly as possible for defense purposes.

Waiting for Congress may take awhile since they are busy with other matters related to Trump.

imho Roseann:)
 
roguenuke said:
None are relevant to what I asked you for. What was Hunter Biden (not Burisma) being investigated for and by who at that time?

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Change the subject instead of attempting to answer the questions? Don't do that. Address the issue head on and stop trying to avoid the obvious implications of the facts.
 
People who deny their is evidence to investigate Biden are morons, and morally bankrupt.
 
marke said:
Ironically, Trump already released the phone conversation before they even asked for it all while they were claiming he was seeking to hide what he said in the conversation. Can democrats get any dumber?
Click to expand...
No he didnt release the full transcript. He only released a memo of that call. They can not only request that full transcript but also any others related to Ukraine as well as very potentially any squirreled away calls that could indicate the President was making other corrupt back door deals with leaders.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
 
roguenuke said:
You still have failed to provide any real evidence Hunter Biden was being investigated or what even he would have been being investigated for.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I know the investigator who Joe Biden had fired had said he was going to ask Hunter some questions about the crooked organization which was paying him $50,000 per month just to be on their board.
 
marke said:
Change the subject instead of attempting to answer the questions? Don't do that. Address the issue head on and stop trying to avoid the obvious implications of the facts.
Click to expand...
You are the one trying to deflect with random "gotcha" questions. Not playing. The only thing that matters here is what was Hunter Biden being investigated for exactly and by whom. Please provide evidence.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom