White House releases memo of Trump-Ukraine call

Atomic Kid · Sep 29, 2019

marke said:
Trump has violated the Constitution? Is that just an opinion or can you irrefutably prove Trump has violated constitutional law? Nobody can prove Trump has violated the law because he hasn't. That is why democrats are now saying impeachment does not depend on any violation of the law.

Not just democrats. Any Constitutional law professor knows that impeachment need not solely depend on the direct violation of a criminal statute. There are many acts that those who occupy high offices or positions can commit that can rise to the level of being "high crimes and misdemeanors" that wouldn't be statutory violations. There's a reason why impeachment is defined as being such in the Constitution.

Meaning of "High Crimes and Misdemeanors"

Logician Man · Sep 29, 2019

marke said:
We see how this is unfolding and yet we cannot yet see the political bias of the participants in the plan.

As did Trump.

Including how responsible government officials are working the complaint through all the appropriate channels in spite of democrat insistence that some channels be shortcut.

Trump asked the Ukrainian president to look into the rumors of American corruption in Ukraine which were circulating in the news in America at the time. Schitff said Trump threatened the Ukrainian president in the conversation, but that was a bald-faced lie. Schitff should be impeached, not Trump, for lying treasonous attacks on the sitting duly elected President of the United States.

Oversight does not mean democrat birddogging of the US President, in spite of ridiculous dummass democrat interpretations of the law.

Have you not heard the audio tape on which Trump asks a foreign nation leader to get Trump info/dirt on Biden ? Or have you heard, and simply don't care ?

marke · Sep 29, 2019

roguenuke said:
Because the government of the Ukraine had agreed to fight corruption, including firing people to do so, in exchange for the money, the aid we were giving them.

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How convenient for Biden. He threatened the Ukrainian president to fire the prosecutor for allegedly being bad, and it just happened that Biden's son was then free from being investigated by that prosecutor who was investigating the mob which was paying him tens of thousands of dollars a month just for being on board.

marke · Sep 29, 2019

roguenuke said:
You keep making this claim but have nothing to back it up. It is nothing more than your opinion, which appears highly uninformed about the situation.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Which of the following reports are known to be false and which are known to be true? Or, which might be true and which might be false?

1. Biden's son was on the payroll of a company being investigated by Ukrainian prosecutors at some point in the past.
2. Biden's son was on the Ukrainian company's payroll at the time Biden threatened the Ukrainian president.
3. Biden did not know his son was involved in the company.
4. Biden did not know the company paying his son was under investigation by Ukrainian prosecutors.
5. Biden did not brag to his supporters about forcing the Ukrainian president to do what he commanded him to do.

CharisRose · Sep 29, 2019

digitusmedius said:
Maybe you should first justify the POTUS using his personal lawyer to conduct foreign policy. While you're at it you could also provide a rationale for any President to importune a foreign leader to help find/invent political dirt on a likely political opponent for political purposes to use in an election campaign which violates federal law.

Gladly (from the memo--not transcript of "the call"):

Are you seriously trying to claim that treaty allows the President to illegally pressure a foreign leader to manufacture dirt on that President's likely opponent in 2020?

Of course you haven't. Your loyalty to ****bag precludes any possibility of you allowing you to see what's in plain sight.

You mean words ****bag used to shake down Zelensky (the exact recording is somewhere hidden in a secret server so we should get that and you can deny what he said all over again) that you refuse to accept as evidence already? You can dance your little dance all you want to but your ****bag has committed a crime and he needs to answer for it.

I was not the one playing Lawyer on a forum. I will leave that up to Trump's Legal Counsel.

I could supply portions of the wording from their conversation to put into context the accusations being made against The President.

I could also use the fact that The Ukrainian President stated that he did not feel Trump illegally pressured him as has been alleged by the Trump opposition party...

But, that statement fell on deaf ears. The Trump opposition party in so many words called The President of The Ukraine a Liar because he did not back up their allegations.

So, if the opposition does not believe The President of the Ukraine, I rather doubt anything I provide will change their minds.

No, I'm not claiming that treaty allows any U.S. Representative to pressure The Ukrainian President in any way, including disregarding his statement and in a round about way called him a liar.

My loyalty to The Duly Elected 45th President is simply based on the fact, that his opposition has accused him and has yet to prove their accusations.

Get back to me when The Impeachment process has ended with a ruling.

Roseann

marke · Sep 29, 2019

roguenuke said:
The House can investigate prior to voting on impeachment, which is how they get the evidence to bring it up before the entire House to vote to impeach. Sort of like a grand jury. Police and prosecutors get to investigate an incident prior to putting it up to a grand jury.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

There have been many impeachment investigations over the entire span of the last 3 years. Democrats have abandoned one false allegation after another. For 3 years democrats have been demanding Trump be impeached, but for what? You name it. The latest is this bad interpretation of what Trump said to the Ukrainian president, but the allegations are barely two weeks old. Just give it a few more days and a new allegation will have to be raised from the ashes of failed past allegations again.

Logician Man · Sep 29, 2019

marke said:
How convenient for Biden. He threatened the Ukrainian president to fire the prosecutor for allegedly being bad, and it just happened that Biden's son was then free from being investigated by that prosecutor who was investigating the mob which was paying him tens of thousands of dollars a month just for being on board.

You need to report these actions to the proper authorities ASAP,marke. You may even end up being America's next 'whistleblower' Super Patriot. Those are some serious and urgent allegations you've put forth there.

marke · Sep 29, 2019

W_Heisenberg said:
If he's doing it for his own personal benefit, then it's a violation of his oath of office.

Really? Can you quote the pertinent statute? No matter anyway. Trump is not doing this for his own benefit. He is doing it in fulfillment of his oath of office and promise to the American people to root out political corruption.

1. It's completely irrelevant.

2. It's not just the leftists who've been accusing Trump of being a crook and a thug for 3 years. Moderates like myself have also been accusing Trump of being a crook and a thug for 3 years because Trump is a crook and a thug, and if the Supreme Court overturned Roe. V. Wade tomorrow Trump would still be a crook and a thug.

There may be tens of thousands of Americans who agree with your biased assessment, but those tens of thousands were not likely among the tens of millions of Americans who elected Trump to office.

The WH released a summary of a transcript which indicates Trump committed an impeachable offense.

I suspect your biased opinion is not supported by tens of millions of Trump supporters.

I don't you've actually read it...
I'll post it:
Read the transcript of Trump's conversation with Volodymyr Zelensky - CNNPolitics
Here's an important part of the summary of the transcript:
-
This is so ridiculous I'm not going to respond.

marke · Sep 29, 2019

W_Heisenberg said:
1. In the transcript itself, which the WH released, when Ukraine asked to buy more Javelin missiles -- something Ukraine desperately wanted for years and only recently had received its first allotment -- Trump immediately began asking for an investigation into Crowdstrike and into Biden.

2. Trump has already publicly admitted to pressuring Ukraine to investigate Biden, by withholding U.S

There is an actual video of him admitting to this fact:

Trump Admits Pressuring Ukraine Over Biden - The Atlantic

Watch it for yourself, with your own eyes, and listen for yourself, with your own ears.

The duty of the President or the Vice President or any officer or official of the U.S. government is to...

further U.S. interests and to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

Not to further their own personal interests.

Trump is responsible for his own behavior. If he is suspected of doing bad things he is not immune from investigation, nor is he above the law. If he is caught doing bad things he must be punished as any other citizen.

This is true for anyone no matter which party they belong to or which policies they support. You think because Trump is pursuing your favorite policies that it doesn't matter what law he breaks or what lie he tells or who he destroys to achieve your objectives. This is false. This is a form of extremism. You are running afoul of the values and principles of the wonderful Republic our founding fathers built.

The key point is this:

"I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

That is the oath he took, and because he violated that oath, he will be impeached.

Democrat accusations and opinions are just accusations and opinions which have not been verified so there is no reason to ascribe to them the same weight as we would to the Constitution.

CharisRose · Sep 29, 2019

CaughtInThe said:
I don't think any of us doubted that you would vote for a sinner and a crook.

Being selectively Christian is not being Christian at all.

Based on that idea, no Christian would be able to vote for any human being since all human beings are sinners.

Christians could never vote for anyone who does not believe in Jesus.

And since... Only Jesus has the true knowledge which human beings are actually Christians.

Did you just make the case that Christians should not be voting?

Because...

ROMANS 3:23 KJV "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Roseann

CaughtInThe · Sep 29, 2019

CharisRose said:
Based on that idea, no Christian would be able to vote for any human being since all human beings are sinners.

Christians could never vote for anyone who does not believe in Jesus.

And since... Only Jesus has the true knowledge which human beings are actually Christians.

Did you just make the case that Christians should not be voting?

Because...

ROMANS 3:23 KJV "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Roseann

No, my point is that people that are selectively Christian can't, in good conscience, tell others to not vote for sinners or crooks while they vote for sinners or crooks.

They can, and should, vote for whomever they want. Just stop being selectively Christian. And even if you do that just accept who you are.

digitusmedius · Sep 29, 2019

CharisRose said:
Now I could be wrong but I think.....

The Democrat/Socialist Party that has taken over The Democrat Party has benefited from this "whistle-blowing" news story getting out in the Public Square.....

I think, The Democrat/Socialist Party will be trying to use it to kill two birds with one stone...

Take out Biden (Democrat Party) front runner. Take out The Duly Elected 45th POTUS.

The Democrat/Socialist Party is using the Public Square (Democracy/mob rule) tactic to circumvent the vote of The American People that legitimately voted for The Duly Elected 45th POTUS.

Plus using the faux impeachment Democracy/Socialist (mob rule) tactic to interfere with the 2020 election using dirty politics.

What Democrat/Socialist running for President may be the beneficiary of these Political negative (mob rule) tactics being used in the Public Square to continue smearing the Duly Elected 45th POTUS and The Democrat Party's front runner?

Elizabeth Warren? Bernie Sanders? etc...

The Democrat/Socialist Party has been crying wolf for years now and this is just another faux wolf cry.

:twocents:Roseann

That's about as good a false propaganda hit-piece as Russia or NK could gin up. Nice work, comrade student.

CharisRose · Sep 29, 2019

roguenuke said:
Because the government of the Ukraine had agreed to fight corruption, including firing people to do so, in exchange for the money, the aid we were giving them.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

The "aid" The Ukrainian President wanted was not monetary. He wanted to buy more Javelins for defense purposes against Russia.

That kind of "aid" already happened during the Trump Presidency and The President of The Ukraine wants it to happen again.

And according to The Ukrainian President during that phone call they were almost ready to buy more Javelins for defense purposes.

At the point in time when they were discussing this "aid" they were not ready to buy more but were almost ready to buy.

Therefore the "favor" was not connected to the "aid" wanted by The President of Ukraine.

Favor - definition of favor by The Free Dictionary

favor - 1. A gracious, friendly, or obliging act that is freely granted: do someone a favor.

President Zelenskyy: Yes you are absolutely right. Not only 100%, but actually 1000% and I can tell you the following; I did talk to Angela Merkel and I did meet with her. I also met and talked with Macron and I told them that they are not doing quite as much as they need to be doing on the issues with the sanctions. They are not enforcing the sanctions. They are not working as much as they should work for Ukraine. It turns out that even though logically, the European Union should be our biggest partner but technically the United States is a much bigger partner than the European Union and I'm very grateful to you for that because the United States is doing quite a lot for Ukraine. Much more than the European Union especially when we are talking about sanctions against the Russiain Federation.I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. snipped

Trump Administration Approves New Weapons Sale to Ukraine, Bucking Putin

Trump Administration Approves New Weapons Sale to Ukraine, Bucking Putin

“This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by improving the security of Ukraine,” the State Department said.

Personal opinion, I rather doubt Trump would deny this kind of "aid" based on the fact he likes to use these types of "sales" as a political thumbs up kind of example...
He's helping out the Ukraine plus keeping businesses in business while their employees can keep their jobs via bringing in money from the Ukraine.

The President of Ukraine never mentioned any monetary "aid" that he was seeking from Trump.

He wanted to make another purchase of Javelins based on his much needed military protection that the U.S. could sell to him.

And, besides all that Trump could have said Yes, I will do that for you but you do understand that Congress has 30 days to nix that sale.

And things aren't going to good for me with Congress these days.

imho Roseann

CharisRose · Sep 29, 2019

CaughtInThe said:
No, my point is that people that are selectively Christian can't, in good conscience, tell others to not vote for sinners or crooks while they vote for sinners or crooks.

They can, and should, vote for whomever they want. Just stop being selectively Christian. And even if you do that just accept who you are.

So, someone is telling you how to be a good Christian and you are telling that someone how to be a good Christian.

Even Steven, if you ask me.

Roseann

digitusmedius · Sep 29, 2019

CharisRose said:
Based on that idea, no Christian would be able to vote for any human being since all human beings are sinners.

Christians could never vote for anyone who does not believe in Jesus.

And since... Only Jesus has the true knowledge which human beings are actually Christians.

Did you just make the case that Christians should not be voting?

Because...

ROMANS 3:23 KJV "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Roseann

So, you're going for the "Christian" version of fascism (Christofascism, for short) then. Good to know. BTW, do you people ever read the words (i.e., the gospels according to your own beliefs) of the person you alleged worship? Or, just the "side notes" like the source you used above. Isn't there something about "rendering to Caesar" in those gospels? Did you also not get the message of our Constitution as well as numerous other historical documents that this is in no way, and never was intended to be, a "Christian nation" no matter how much your belief system indoctrinates you otherwise. So, working toward a "Christian only government" is, like many of the other things you people do and believe, is un-American in the extreme. If you were really honest people you'd stop waving the flag and singing the anthem and covering your hearts in these meaningless shows of patriotism even as you work to destroy the secular democratic and free country.

marke · Sep 29, 2019

TU Curmudgeon said:
You, obviously, don't have a very good grasp of either what a "king's ransom" is or what the normal level of remuneration for board members of large corporations is.

$50,000 per year isn't even close to either. In fact, I've made three times that much.

I'm sure you must have done well for yourself in the word as you sought your own path to riches, but Hunter Biden was not being paid $50,000 per year as you say. He was paid $50,000 per month.

digitusmedius · Sep 29, 2019

CharisRose said:
The "aid" The Ukrainian President wanted was not monetary. He wanted to buy more Javelins for defense purposes against Russia.

That kind of "aid" already happened during the Trump Presidency and The President of The Ukraine wants it to happen again.

And according to The Ukrainian President during that phone call they were almost ready to buy more Javelins for defense purposes.

At the point in time when they were discussing this "aid" they were not ready to buy more but were almost ready to buy.

Therefore the "favor" was not connected to the "aid" wanted by The President of Ukraine.

Favor - definition of favor by The Free Dictionary

favor - 1. A gracious, friendly, or obliging act that is freely granted: do someone a favor.

President Zelenskyy: Yes you are absolutely right. Not only 100%, but actually 1000% and I can tell you the following; I did talk to Angela Merkel and I did meet with her. I also met and talked with Macron and I told them that they are not doing quite as much as they need to be doing on the issues with the sanctions. They are not enforcing the sanctions. They are not working as much as they should work for Ukraine. It turns out that even though logically, the European Union should be our biggest partner but technically the United States is a much bigger partner than the European Union and I'm very grateful to you for that because the United States is doing quite a lot for Ukraine. Much more than the European Union especially when we are talking about sanctions against the Russiain Federation.I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. snipped

Trump Administration Approves New Weapons Sale to Ukraine, Bucking Putin

Trump Administration Approves New Weapons Sale to Ukraine, Bucking Putin

“This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by improving the security of Ukraine,” the State Department said.

Personal opinion, I rather doubt Trump would deny this kind of "aid" based on the fact he likes to use these types of "sales" as a political thumbs up kind of example...
He's helping out the Ukraine plus keeping businesses in business while their employees can keep their jobs via bringing in money from the Ukraine.

The President of Ukraine never mentioned any monetary "aid" that he was seeking from Trump.

He wanted to make another purchase of Javelins based on his much needed military protection that the U.S. could sell to him.

And, besides all that Trump could have said Yes, I will do that for you but you do understand that Congress has 30 days to nix that sale.

And things aren't going to good for me with Congress these days.

imho Roseann

Among all the other things you've twisted, your definition of favor avoids mentioning is that it's not something that is demanded in exchange for something the provider of the favor would have to do first. No, that's called extortion. Is there no ****bag perversion you won't wink at and give a pass on? So much for Christian "morality." Reminds me of another comment from Jesus of the gospels:

"Why do you call me Lord, Lord and not do what I say." Wow, did he see lot coming or what?

marke · Sep 29, 2019

roguenuke said:
The House can investigate prior to voting on impeachment, which is how they get the evidence to bring it up before the entire House to vote to impeach. Sort of like a grand jury. Police and prosecutors get to investigate an incident prior to putting it up to a grand jury.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

The House is doing practically nothing for America at the moment while it continues looking for a crime for which to impeach Trump. The democrats have been filing one false charge after another on Trump for 3 years but since January 2019 they have been almost totally consumed with the obsession to find something they might be able to use to impeach Trump. And ignorant people still believe the impeachment fervor has nothing to do with politics. How dumb is that?

marke · Sep 29, 2019

W_Heisenberg said:
The WH released a summary of a transcript which indicates Trump committed an impeachable offense.
I don't you've actually read it...
I'll post it:

Read the transcript of Trump's conversation with Volodymyr Zelensky - CNNPolitics

Here's an important part of the summary of the transcript:
--
This is so ridiculous I'm not going to respond.

The fact is in the transcript, not in Adam Schitff's paraphrase of the transcript in which he claimed Trump threatened the Ukrainian President to find or make up dirt on his political opponent or face serious consequences. Let me clearly go on record here saying,

"You can go to hell, Schitff-head, and take your lying seditious traitorous crap with you."

CharisRose · Sep 29, 2019

digitusmedius said:
That's about as good a false propaganda hit-piece as Russia or NK could gin up. Nice work, comrade student.

Nay, the comrades are the ones who have kept up the division that Russia and NK are enjoying every single day as they watch, laugh and shout for Joy as those Democrat/Socialists comrades help accomplish further division of the American People and have continued propping up the "idea" that The American People can no longer trust The U.S. election process.

And, let me add the attempted handcuffing and stifling of Presidential Power of The Duly Elected 45th POTUS to carry out the Duties of The Presidency at every turn for about 3 years...

Simply because they are sore losers and are doing exactly what Hillary said Trump would do when he lost the Presidency to her.

The sore losers who shout... The Go Team Motto... "By Any Means Necessary"!!!

imho Roseann

marke · Sep 29, 2019

W_Heisenberg said:
1. In the transcript itself, which the WH released, when Ukraine asked to buy more Javelin missiles -- something Ukraine desperately wanted for years and only recently had received its first allotment -- Trump immediately began asking for an investigation into Crowdstrike and into Biden.

2. Trump has already publicly admitted to pressuring Ukraine to investigate Biden, by withholding U.S

There is an actual video of him admitting to this fact:

Trump Admits Pressuring Ukraine Over Biden - The Atlantic

Watch it for yourself, with your own eyes, and listen for yourself, with your own ears.

The duty of the President or the Vice President or any officer or official of the U.S. government is to...

further U.S. interests and to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

Not to further their own personal interests.

Trump is responsible for his own behavior. If he is suspected of doing bad things he is not immune from investigation, nor is he above the law. If he is caught doing bad things he must be punished as any other citizen.

This is true for anyone no matter which party they belong to or which policies they support. You think because Trump is pursuing your favorite policies that it doesn't matter what law he breaks or what lie he tells or who he destroys to achieve your objectives. This is false. This is a form of extremism. You are running afoul of the values and principles of the wonderful Republic our founding fathers built.

The key point is this:

"I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

That is the oath he took, and because he violated that oath, he will be impeached.

Democrats are so stupid they even believe their own lying dummass lies. Trump never threatened the Ukrainian president but Joe Biden definitely threatened the Ukrainian president and then bragged about it to his adoring fans in the US.

marke · Sep 29, 2019

iguanaman said:
LOL Yes the USA has a lot of pull in the world or at least they used to under Obama. Now you are jealous that the VP of the U.S. gets to do cool stuff. Get yourself elected and you can do the same.

"Jealous" is not the word. "Embarrassed" by the corruption and stupidity of ungodly American politicians is the better word.

marke · Sep 29, 2019

CharisRose said:
The trial has already occurred in the Public Square via nearly 3 years of investigations being witnessed by The American People.

Note: Not just The POTUS was being tried in the Public Square (Court of Public Opinion) (mob rule)

The White House Doctor was actually removed from his position in The White House via mere accusations.

The same tactic was used on A Supreme Court Nominee. Now there is talk about Impeaching A Sitting Supreme Court Justice of The United States.

That tactic was also used to smear a College Student wearing a MAGA hat.

Just a few examples of that tactic being used against American Citizens in opposition to a particular Political Party.

This is just a new trial occurring in the Public Square being witnessed once again by The American People.

Perhaps, the accused can request a Change of Venue from the Court of Public Opinion to a Court of Law?

Public Square= Court of Public Opinion that has been used for about 3 years to smear a Duly Elected 45th POTUS to try to circumvent The American Voters that voted for The Duly Elected 45th POTUS.

The Court of Law in this case being the Constitutional check and balance...

Impeachment via the Constitutional Rules of The House voting for Impeachment. The vote passes The House. Then proceeds to The Senate.

That hasn't happened yet... The trial continues in The Public Square (Court of Public Opinion) (mob rule)

Court of public opinion. ... Trying cases in the court of public opinion refers to using the news media to influence public support for one side or the other in a court case. This can result in persons outside the justice system (i.e. people other than the judge or jury) taking action for or against a party.

Roseann

The democrat party in America has degenerated into a party of uncivilized baboon barbarians who wouldn't know a lie if it bit them in the butt and made them bleed or could not recognize the truth if it was the last life raft they could reach to save them from going over the falls.

iguanaman · Sep 29, 2019

marke said:
"Jealous" is not the word. "Embarrassed" by the corruption and stupidity of ungodly American politicians is the better word.

VP Bidens work was hailed by those in Ukraine who are fighting corruption and Putin's influence on the nation. There was nothing corrupt about it. Unless you love Putin and you seem to be quite fond of him.

marke · Sep 29, 2019

trixare4kids said:
:applaud

Since the night he was elected, these scoundrels been trying to overturn Trump's presidency!

Dummass Max Waters: "Impeach 45 and attack his supporters in the street wherever you find them."