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Thread: White House releases memo of Trump-Ukraine call

  1. #1681
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    Re: White House releases memo of Trump-Ukraine call

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No. You have conspiracy theories that link Biden doing any action within the country of Ukraine with his son working there. There is no evidence of any of the vague accusations that Trump or Guiliani are claiming against the Bidens. (Please note how very vague those accusations are.)

    The sources of those giving information against the Bidens are not "just like those" that have information being used against Trump. Hell some of the information being used against Trump is coming directly from Trump himself. Other information is coming from highly respected sources who are simply telling what they know. While Guiliani may have once been respectable, since then he has been chasing down conspiracy theories to help the President get reelected. There is no credibility to what he is putting out. And what he is putting out has been fact checked and shown as wrong or too vague to even guess what are implying (beyond "the Bidens did something wrong/illegal").

    IF there is actual evidence against the Bidens doing something wrong, then we should investigate. We should not investigate conspiracy theories based on

    Most moderates are tired of Trump and his supporters protecting him. That is where the Drama is. Trump, acting like a child about pretty much everything, doing everything in his power to divide this country so far it would take some seriously messed up event to get us back together. It isn't the Dems treating Republicans like their enemy. It is Trump specifically doing this to Dems, any and all, and pretty much anyone else who simply doesn't approve of the job he is doing. He has demonstrated this time and again.
    So this is still just a term of he said she said and the only reason you're going to trust one source. Is because they are "more trust worthy" than the other, even though the other source contains Ukrainian MPs, and signed information... while the other contains second hand knowledge and information from anonymous sources.

    That is all still, despite the fact that no ones actually shown just "how" Trump has broken any rule here, or at the very least acted against the faith of the American people.
    Why do they run?
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  2. #1682
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    Re: White House releases memo of Trump-Ukraine call

    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    So this is still just a term of he said she said and the only reason you're going to trust one source. Is because they are "more trust worthy" than the other, even though the other source contains Ukrainian MPs, and signed information... while the other contains second hand knowledge and information from anonymous sources.

    That is all still, despite the fact that no ones actually shown just "how" Trump has broken any rule here, or at the very least acted against the faith of the American people.
    Trumps very own words to the Ukraine President and to China are not a case of "he said, she said".

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    Re: White House releases memo of Trump-Ukraine call

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Trumps very own words to the Ukraine President and to China are not a case of "he said, she said".

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    Then going by that, we have no reason to impeach him. No breach of trust, no break in his oath of office.
    Why do they run?
    Because they have no choice son, such is the way of cowards.
    But even a cornered rat, with no choice, will fight.
    Yes my son, and that should tell you more than you need to know about the coward.

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    Re: White House releases memo of Trump-Ukraine call

    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Then going by that, we have no reason to impeach him. No breach of trust, no break in his oath of office.
    Only to those who are too biased in his favor is there no reason to investigate that as a breach of public trust, an abuse of the office of the President for personal gain. That was an obvious quid pro quo situation to extract a personal politically based favor from a foreign government.

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    Re: White House releases memo of Trump-Ukraine call

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Only to those who are too biased in his favor is there no reason to investigate that as a breach of public trust, an abuse of the office of the President for personal gain. That was an obvious quid pro quo situation to extract a personal politically based favor from a foreign government.

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    Going from the released transcript no, no it was not.

    You can make that assumption all you like, which is your right to do so. But looking at this logically, one cannot just say that there was a form of quid pro quo. When there was in fact, no such thing in the actual conversation. Schiff even had to lie about the conversation to make it sound as such.

    I for one cannot make such a call, with what is being presented.
    Why do they run?
    Because they have no choice son, such is the way of cowards.
    But even a cornered rat, with no choice, will fight.
    Yes my son, and that should tell you more than you need to know about the coward.

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    Re: White House releases memo of Trump-Ukraine call

    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Going from the released transcript no, no it was not.

    You can make that assumption all you like, which is your right to do so. But looking at this logically, one cannot just say that there was a form of quid pro quo. When there was in fact, no such thing in the actual conversation. Schiff even had to lie about the conversation to make it sound as such.

    I for one cannot make such a call, with what is being presented.
    I read that transcript just fine and it requests the President of Ukraine to look into two things, one dealing with his most likely Presidential rival in the upcoming election (and his son), and the other is his Partys rival, who he feels/claims wrongly went after him in the investigation into Russia interfering with our elections. These are both based on conspiracy theories and have no benefit for the US, only for Trump and his campaign and ego. And he requested this as a favor right after it was mentioned that they wanted to buy Javelins. The fact that he was also refusing to release aid money or even meet with that President, shows that an expectation was there and the investigation is showing more and more that the expectation was for an investigation into only two things, those two things mentioned in the phone call.

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    Re: White House releases memo of Trump-Ukraine call

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I read that transcript just fine and it requests the President of Ukraine to look into two things, one dealing with his most likely Presidential rival in the upcoming election (and his son), and the other is his Partys rival, who he feels/claims wrongly went after him in the investigation into Russia interfering with our elections. These are both based on conspiracy theories and have no benefit for the US, only for Trump and his campaign and ego. And he requested this as a favor right after it was mentioned that they wanted to buy Javelins. The fact that he was also refusing to release aid money or even meet with that President, shows that an expectation was there and the investigation is showing more and more that the expectation was for an investigation into only two things, those two things mentioned in the phone call.

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    So now you're just jumping into assumption?

    Because it was actually cloudstrike that was spoken about as to the investigation and even Biden's name was mentioned almost in passing. Then again, the investigation was to see of possible corruption and not dig up dirt on political opponents.
    Why do they run?
    Because they have no choice son, such is the way of cowards.
    But even a cornered rat, with no choice, will fight.
    Yes my son, and that should tell you more than you need to know about the coward.

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    Re: White House releases memo of Trump-Ukraine call

    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    So now you're just jumping into assumption?

    Because it was actually cloudstrike that was spoken about as to the investigation and even Biden's name was mentioned almost in passing. Then again, the investigation was to see of possible corruption and not dig up dirt on political opponents.
    And Cloudstrike is part of a rightwing conspiracy theory about DNC server(s), hence him mentioning a server in relation to that one (so still about investigating the DNC). And there is no evidence of any sort of corruption involving the Bidens, again just a rightwing conspiracy theory that is being peddled by Guiliani. So yes, what I said is correct. Just because Trump was being a little bit vague doesnt mean people can't figure it out. Any real request for then to fight corruption would have been more about corruption in general in their country, with their people, not things that only relate to people whom Trump views as "the enemy".

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    Re: White House releases memo of Trump-Ukraine call

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And Cloudstrike is part of a rightwing conspiracy theory about DNC server(s), hence him mentioning a server in relation to that one (so still about investigating the DNC). And there is no evidence of any sort of corruption involving the Bidens, again just a rightwing conspiracy theory that is being peddled by Guiliani. So yes, what I said is correct. Just because Trump was being a little bit vague doesnt mean people can't figure it out. Any real request for then to fight corruption would have been more about corruption in general in their country, with their people, not things that only relate to people whom Trump views as "the enemy".

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    Which still means you're following with the barest of assumptions and even if you want to claim that it's a right wing conspiracy, that doesn't make it any less valid when we have people putting information and testimony forward that says otherwise.

    Even if that is the case, just because Biden is running for president, does not mean he is protected from whatever scrutiny comes his way, or any chance of some sort of investigation for that matter.

    His being in this matter with his son so close to him and him being seeing on TV discussing his own interactions with the Ukrainian government. Not to mention possibly lying about his own involvement with his own sons part in this. Is more than enough reason to just look into it.

    I could just as easily dismiss this idiotic goose chase as a left wing conspiracy with how the democrats are treating this. Actually holding closed meetings to gather evidence and kicking out choice people from sitting in on them.

    How about this, you get your investigation. But the right gets their investigation of Biden's business in this as well.
    All of that just seems as fair a compromise as any.
    Why do they run?
    Because they have no choice son, such is the way of cowards.
    But even a cornered rat, with no choice, will fight.
    Yes my son, and that should tell you more than you need to know about the coward.

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    Re: White House releases memo of Trump-Ukraine call

    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Going from the released transcript no, no it was not.
    And going from the actual testimony of those who were privy to the actual details, yes, yes it was.
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