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Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine President to Investigate Biden's Son

Fletch said:
It was OK for the Obama admin to investigate Trump ties to Russia during the 2016 campaign so whats the problem here? Dont you want to know if Biden is corrupt before you nominate him?
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It's okay for Ukraine, of its own volition, to investigate alleged crimes committed by Biden, in Ukraine, provided there is a reasonable suspicion that a crime occurred (assuming their legal system approximates ours).

It's not okay for Trump, acting in his official capacity as President, to pressure Ukraine or any other foreign government to investigate his main political opponent in an upcoming election. At the very least, this is a conspiracy to violate federal election law as Trump is essentially asking a foreign country for an illegal campaign contribution.

Trump should simply have done nothing.

The career officials working within the DOJ, FBI, and the CIA have an obligation and a duty to investigate suspected crimes and also efforts by foreign countries to interfere in our election. You act as if Obama somehow ordered the investigation to happen. That's not what happened. This was an organically generated investigation, which was then rolled up into a special counsel investigation by political appointees of Donald Trump himself.
 
SheWolf said:
Fighting corruption whilst engaging in corruption is pointless. It just makes Trump and his supporters look like a group of people who only care about power and destroying political opposition, not a political movement legitimately against corruption. You chant to lock up Hillary, you have no issue with Trump telling Russia to hack her, and now you want to Trump to seek out and invite foreign governments into the US election process to help him win. Other than the constitution, which Trump doesn’t respect, I don’t think anything would stop MAGA from trying to make America a one party state if they could.

MAGA is not anti corruption, neither is Trump, and neither are you for supporting Trump to break American laws for political gain
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thank you for being an shining example to what I was just talking about..
 
beefheart said:
An honest president would release the complaint if he knew he was innocent...
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We’ll eventually find out that former DNI Dan Coats knows all of this.
 
Trump said:
extortion ...isn't that what Biden just admitted to on camera by demanding prosecutor be fired before releasing funds?
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The bottom line is that it's okay for the U.S., as an entity, to extort other countries. There aren't any rules or laws against that. The President, acting on behalf of the U.S., can bargain or threaten other countries at will.

It's not okay for the President to extort other countries for some personal benefit. The U.S. President must act in the interests of the U.S. at all times, not his own personal interests.

Trump took an oath to defend the country, not himself.
 
W_Heisenberg said:
It's okay for Ukraine, of its own volition, to investigate alleged crimes committed by Biden, in Ukraine, provided there is a reasonable suspicion that a crime occurred (assuming their legal system approximates ours).

It's not okay for Trump, acting in his official capacity as President, to pressure Ukraine or any other foreign government to investigate his main political opponent in an upcoming election. At the very least, this is a conspiracy to violate federal election law as Trump is essentially asking a foreign country for an illegal campaign contribution.

Trump should simply have done nothing.

The career officials working within the DOJ, FBI, and the CIA have an obligation and a duty to investigate suspected crimes and also efforts by foreign countries to interfere in our election. You act as if Obama somehow ordered the investigation to happen. That's not what happened. This was an organically generated investigation, which was then rolled up into a special counsel investigation by political appointees of Donald Trump himself.
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when we find out all those FISA warrants were bad will you admit investigation was not "organically generated"?
 
Lutherf said:
The WSJ article very clearly states that an action like you described DID NOT occur in the phone call cited.
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And they have no idea what was in the whistle blowers letter.
 
Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Napoleon said:
Trump has a startling habit of turning nothing into something. He just cannot help but make himself look guilty. And he still does not seem to understand that, guilty of another crime or not, obstructing Congressional investigations is an impeachable offense.
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This is what happens when you have a president whose insecurity is so dominant that it overrules his ability to use common sense.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Its these kind of comments that we wind up with this TDS thing and why the anti-Trumpers wind up being perpetually frustrated:

So its the opinion of a this national security expert that the USA is OBLIGATED to send money to foreign countries, no strings attached?
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Wow. It's really hard for some of you guys to accept the fact that Trump is a world-class piece of s***.

The problem is that Trump is using the property of the U.S. as a tool to extort a foreign country for his own personal benefit.

As above. And as somebody else has mentioned, why is there a problem with finding dirt on political opponents in foreign countries? I thought that was an act of heroism.
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The big problem is that Trump is using the apparatus of the U.S. government for a personal benefit, in this case, an illegal campaign contribution.

Let me remind you of the oath Trump took:

"I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Oh-- so there was a conspiracy with russia in the 2016 election? It just that it was between Mrs. Clinton and Russia when she hired folks to find anti-Trump dirt that country. And maybe President Obama since it was his administration which actually used it against an American citizen.
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Former Secretary Clinton and Mr. Steele were not acting on behalf of the U.S. government.

The investigation into Russia and the Trump campaign was organically generated. There was a reasonable suspicion that Russia interfered in our election and that Trump campaign personnel were compromised by the Russian government.

Also, the investigations continued under the direction of political appointees of the Trump administration. Remember: Rosenstein was a Trump political appointee. He is the one that appointed Mueller.
 
Trump said:
when we find out all those FISA warrants were bad will you admit investigation was not "organically generated"?
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Trump has taught his disciples well. When they can’t defend the matter at hand, change the subject and attack the other side.

You can’t defend Trump’s violation of law and decency, so you focus on Clinton.
 
Acadia said:
Well, you're not sure and that's my point. This is a whole lot of noise and very little signal.
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The fact that a complaint was made is a pretty strong and unprecedented "signal" and that fact that it is being suppressed is HUGE.
 
Trump said:
when we find out all those FISA warrants were bad will you admit investigation was not "organically generated"?
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Yes, of course. I look forward to reading the IG's report. My concern is for the Republic as a whole, not any particular political party. My loyalty is to our country, not to any party.

What you think is going to happen is likely to not happen though. I consider it very unlikely that the FBI did anything wrong.
 
Cardinal said:
A US President using his office to pressure a foreign country to interfere in our election.



Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine President to Investigate Biden’s Son - WSJ
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Giuliani does not work for the US government. Giuliani is the personal attorney for Donald Trump. The President is using the power of his office to have his Ukrainian counterpart investigate the son of his likely rival for 2020 by working with his personal attorney. Personal attorney.

And $50 says every Trump devotee on this board will try to justify this, say it's a nothing burger, pretend it's no big deal, and continue to toss their underpants at the feet of a man who is abusing the power of his office.

America is ****ed with this piece of **** in the Oval Office, and we are ****ed by his useless, spineless, disgusting supporters.
 
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W_Heisenberg said:
The bottom line is that it's okay for the U.S., as an entity, to extort other countries. There aren't any rules or laws against that. The President, acting on behalf of the U.S., can bargain or threaten other countries at will.

It's not okay for the President to extort other countries for some personal benefit. The U.S. President must act in the interests of the U.S. at all times, not his own personal interests.

Trump took an oath to defend the country, not himself.
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exposing a corrupt politician before becoming President benefits All Americans I would argue .....

love that MSM is forced to talk about Biden Ukraine scandal.
 
Acadia said:
We have to get a few facts straight before we can make that determination. I want us to be a country where even a former Veep can be investigated for alleged extortion, corruption and abuse of power which protects and enriches his own son.
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There is no evidence of any of that but you want to make some up I'm sure. Meanwhile we have a President who is constantly obstructing any oversight over his own actions and you are content with that.
 
Mycroft said:
You think this is bad, just wait till the DOJ starts investigating Biden's son and his connections to China...billions of dollars worth of connections.
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Kindly produce cites to back up this claim or stopping bring the smut from your political porn sites to this forum. What I think is bad are people that live in fact-free zone throwing around fact-less accusations as if they were truth behind them, when there is none.

BTW... if you provide a cite from a less than reputable source, be prepared to be called out on it.

Acadia said:
We have to get a few facts straight before we can make that determination. I want us to be a country where even a former Veep can be investigated for alleged extortion, corruption and abuse of power which protects and enriches his own son.
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...but are seemingly less interested in being in a country where even a CURRENT PRESIDENT can be investigated for extortion, corruption and abuse of power which protects and enriches himself..... You are seemingly pushing back on that. Interesting double standard there, don't you think?

Remember, the main issue on table here is TRUMP using the power of his office CURRENTLY for his personal benefit. This whole thing with Biden is but a political side show at the moment.
 
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Acadia said:
Asking is pressure? Pressure would be extortion. No quid pro quo.
Why should any President ignore corruption just because the subject in question happens to have his hat in the 2020 race?
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Putting this in language that only Trump supporters would be able to understand;

Essentially, Trump says to Ukraine, "We're not going to give you this 250 million dollars Congress said you can have for your military to help fight Russia unless you do this investigation on Biden's son and unless you find something that I can use to destroy Biden in the presidential race you don't get our 250 million."
 
Trump said:
exposing a corrupt politician before becoming President benefits All Americans I would argue .....

love that MSM is forced to talk about Biden Ukraine scandal.
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Trump should have refrained from saying or doing anything involving Biden, the same applies to Rudy, Trump's lawyer.
 
tres borrachos said:
Giuliani does not work for the US government. Giuliani is the personal attorney for Donald Trump. The President is using the power of his office to have his Ukrainian counterpart investigate the son of his likely rival for 2020 by working with his person attorney.

And $50 says every Trump devotee on this board will try to justify this, say it's a nothing burger, pretend it's no big deal, and continue to toss their underpants at the feet of a man who is abusing the power of his office.

America is ****ed with this piece of **** in the Oval Office, and we are ****ed by his useless, spineless, disgusting supporters.
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An attack on one Democratic candidate by the T-party of Nixon is an attack on all Democratic candidates. Let’s see how the other Democratic candidates and their supporters behave on this one. McCarthy now on Baier.
 
W_Heisenberg said:
Yes, of course. I look forward to reading the IG's report. My concern is for the Republic as a whole, not any particular political party. My loyalty is to our country, not to any party.

What you think is going to happen is likely to not happen though. I consider it very unlikely that the FBI did anything wrong.
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Good.

around 5 weeks expecting IG report gets released.
 
Linc said:
An attack on one Democratic candidate by the T-party of Nixon is an attack on all Democratic candidates. Let’s see how the other Democratic candidates and their supporters behave on this one. McCarthy now on Baier.
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I'm more interested in hearing from the Republicans on this one. They can not think this is okay, can they? Because it isn't.
 
Fletch said:
It was OK for the Obama admin to investigate Trump ties to Russia during the 2016 campaign so whats the problem here? Dont you want to know if Biden is corrupt before you nominate him?
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The Ukraine government has already conducted an investigation and found there was nothing. They looked at it, there was nothing there. The largest English language paper in Kiev, Russia has already stated that Rudy Giuliani's story is all a bogus story, the Washington Post and a lot of other outlets has stated Rudi Giuliani's conflation of Biden and Manafort is nothing other than a conspiracy theory and a bogus story. Ukraine has investigative journalists and they had their own investigation and found nothing shady or wrong.
 
W_Heisenberg said:
Trump should have refrained from saying or doing anything involving Biden, the same applies to Rudy, Trump's lawyer.
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then folks wouldn't be talking about it....Biden's dirty and MSM won't chase the story....this way they must.
 
HumblePi said:
The Ukraine government has already conducted an investigation and found there was nothing. They looked at it, there was nothing there. The largest English language paper in Kiev, Russia has already stated that Rudy Giuliani's story is all a bogus story, the Washington Post and a lot of other outlets has stated Rudi Giuliani's conflation of Biden and Manafort is nothing other than a conspiracy theory and a bogus story. Ukraine has investigative journalists and they had their own investigation and found nothing shady or wrong.
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of course you'd feel better if Americans conducted their own investigation wouldn't you?

Whats to fear if Biden is innocent correct?
 
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