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Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market Under Trump

Northern Light said:
It's pretty much too late at this point. It was one thing when we had no system in place and attempts to create one kept getting hijacked; but once a highly incompetent, partisan and ineffectual system got created, it made such a mess that detangling it will be next to impossible. And I think that was by design.

We will be distracted for years by the constant in-fighting caused by the creation of this ineffectual system, so much so that people will be baited and switched away from ever thinking about the genuine article.
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Some good points, but the criminal ACA was written by and for the benefit of Big Health Care.

Obama punked us all.

:(
 
Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market Under Trump

Greenbeard said:
I'm not talking about your made-up page total. I'm talking about a specific piece of the law, not the parts that reform Medicare, build up the heath care workforce, boost the nation's public health infrastructure, improve care quality, revamp provider business models to get costs under control, build insurance markets, not even the parts that insure tens of millions of people.

I'm just talking about the disclosure requirements the Trump administration is flouting. The ones that ensure consumers are informed about what they're buying. Do you support those? Do you think they should be enforced?
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Then you should have just mentioned the disclosure requirement instead of what you said..."Laws like the ACA?".

Because favoring insurers over consumers, allowing discrimination based on pre-existing conditions, ignoring the clear will of the voters on a top-2 salience issue is potentially an extinction-level policy position for a modern political party. Even doing an about face and lying about supporting this position led to an unprecedented 9-point loss for the anti-consumer GOP last year in an ostensibly strong economy. Keep it up!
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shrug...

I don't agree with your spinning justification to interfere with the free decision-making ability of both buyers and sellers.

btw, I underestimated the number of pages in that Obamacare law.

How Many Pages Is Obamacare? - Rob Schwab
 
Greenbeard said:
It should come as no surprise that the Trump administration has made enabling predatory actions by bad actors and promoting junk insurance the centerpiece of its health care agenda, such as it is. Junk plans--"short term" health plans, despite the fact that they're now available for the entire year--are on the verge of becoming a bonanza for hucksters no longer bound by consumer protection rules.

Think of these plans as the Trump University of health insurance. Beyond failing to offer the basic protections and coverage people have come to expect in the age of the ACA (pre-existing condition protections, no caps or limits, etc), short term plans on average spend an absurdly low 39 cents of every premium dollar they collect on actual medical care. By contrast, ACA-compliant plans are legally required to dedicate at least 80-85% of premiums on actual care.

Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market Under Trump




"Grifters gonna grift" remains the guiding philosophy of policy coming out of this administration.
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Yep, no surprise here. Healthcare should be regulated.
 
Northern Light said:
Honestly, I think it may be the only way to get a lot of things done right now. We need a do over, badly. I just don't want to see millions of people suffer in turmoil in the mean time, like in the 1930's. The great tragedy here is that this could all be avoided if the egos in congress could say no to lobbying and try to work together.

Anyway, it's too late IMO.
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i hope not. i have a family and bills to pay, so a depression would **** us up pretty good. i'd prefer to do it another way.
 
3leftsdoo said:
Blaming this on Trump is ludicrous.

The ACA is a criminal joke which has left tens of millions uninsured or grossly underinsured with often massive premiums and equally massive, bankrupting deductibles.

But I understand that Obama cannot be blamed for delivering us to the devil, but Trump must be.

Liberals gotta liberal...
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That's so dumb it's almost painful.
 
Mr Person said:
Who would ever have guessed that an ardent Trump supporter would not actually have a clue about what was in legislation they claim a principled stand against.
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Every time I read about ACA I'm reminded of KY. When ACA rolled out, the people trying to get those people signed up couldn't call it the ACA or Obamacare, because that didn't work, but it was fine to sign people up for Kynect, which was Obamacare. And polls showed people loved Kynect, but hated the ACA. Propaganda works. It's not all the problem, obviously, but there's a big PR problem that isn't related to actual concerns about the ACA.
 
Mycroft said:
No. We don't need 2000+ pages of legislation to tell sellers to be honest.

shrug...

Why should I care about what "most people" support? I don't support the government telling insurers they have to cover pre-existing conditions. I think that should be left between the seller and the buyer.
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Nope, we don't, just a few pages would do for that, and Trump considered those rules and said, nope, no need! Thanks Donnie!
 
Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market Under Trump

Mycroft said:
Then you should have just mentioned the disclosure requirement instead of what you said..."Laws like the ACA?".
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He linked to Trump's team rejecting the disclosure rule, and quoted it so you didn't even have to click on the link... :lamo
 
Greenbeard said:
This is a Trump policy. He's legalized garbage insurance. I've literally linked to the CMS rule on this in this very thread.
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This was a HUGE problem long before Trump.

Obama made it worse, though there were of course problems preceding him as well.
 
Government should do no more than assure that people receive the health care they have paid for and/or can afford. If government can do something to reduce the costs of healthcare to what individuals can afford to pay, without government subsidization, then we are making progress without growing our public debt.
 
Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market Under Trump

JasperL said:
He linked to Trump's team rejecting the disclosure rule, and quoted it so you didn't even have to click on the link... :lamo
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That pdf that was presented only pertained to one specific type of medical insurance plan...the “Short-term, limited-duration insurance”. Furthermore, the section of the pdf that his quote came from also said that, to paraphrase, there is nothing that stops states from enacting their own rules regarding that type of insurance.

However, as previously noted, states may specify additional methods and forms of disclosure, as well as mandate additional disclosure requirements that issuers of short-term, limited-duration insurance must comply with, consistent with their authority to regulate such coverage.
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In any case, I wasn't talking about regulations...I was talking about laws. You know...those things that Congress is responsible for?
 
Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market Under Trump

Perhaps we should pay more attention to what President of the United States of America has said about American health care. He is, after all, a man of his word, right?

“If you can’t take care of your sick in the country, forget it, it’s all over. I mean, it’s no good. So I’m very liberal when it comes to health care. I believe in universal health care. I believe in whatever it takes to make people well and better.”

"There's many different ways, by the way. Everybody's got to be covered. This is an un-Republican thing for me to say because a lot of times they say, 'No, no, the lower 25 percent that can't afford private'… I am going to take care of everybody. I don't care if it costs me votes or not. Everybody's going to be taken care of much better than they're taken care of now … the government's gonna pay for it. But we're going to save so much money on the other side. But for the most it's going to be a private plan and people are going to be able to go out and negotiate great plans with lots of different competition with lots of competitors with great companies and they can have their doctors, they can have plans, they can have everything."
 
Modern Day Republicans simply don't learn.... they are worried more about "white entrenchment" than policies that help American People.
They don't read and have a chosen stand against learning. They follow what $30 million dollar a year (Hannity and Limbaugh) Talking Heads tell them to think and do, when these men make well of $500k a WEEK... and have nothing in common with the minions they lead and rule over.
These Talking Heads certainly don't have any concerns of getting health care that covers every penny of their personal needs... So why should they care about the public... They care about "Advertisers" !!! and the Insurance and Medical Community flock to advertise in ensuring they remain as being "on air" promoters of anything that enrich the already wealthy. "There's big money to be made in leading a revolt of savagery agenda"

The Net Worth of the Richest Fox News Anchor Will Shock You
Bill O'Reilly, $85 million. Bill O'Reilly on The O'Reilly Factor | Fox News.
Sean Hannity, $80 million. Sean Hannity on Hannity | Fox News. ...
Shepard Smith, $25 million. ...
Eric Bolling, $25 million. ...
Bret Baier, $16 million. ...
Martha MacCallum, $8 million. ...
Tucker Carlson, $8 million.
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There is a fix for Ignorance, its called "education", but when one ignores education and continue their path, "stupidity is guaranteed", and when one is unaware of being stupid, they certainly will not think of becoming educated to remove ignorance, and thus so... such a one becomes an "Imbecile"... and we know, an Imbecile has no awareness of its own stupidity, thus so, it disregards the fact of their ignorance, and have no concept of concern for being educated. This produces what is better known as "Savages"...

Such types have amassed themselves under the banner of Republican, chasing the fiction of Conservatism, unaware it means, "keep the wealthy getting more wealthy, and they become devoted to their Wealthy Serf Masters, and will fight in defense of their Wealthy Serf Master.

All it takes is a loud mouth "posse caller" (Hannity, Limbaugh, Trump and Right Wing Networks) and they are more than eager to engage their favorite activity of "attack something", and if there's nothing immediately present, they will attack each other... for not being a Serf for the wealthy.
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3leftsdoo said:
This was a HUGE problem long before Trump.

Obama made it worse, though there were of course problems preceding him as well.
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Obama banned junk insurance. Trump has been working to overturn that ban via executive actions. Hence the flood of junk insurance ripping people off now. This was not a huge problem before Trump, it's a huge problem now because of Trump.
 
The Calculator - of the mouth piece... leading Republican Ideology.

The Bible has a message for Republicans and its not listening to Limbaugh, Hannity, Trump and Right Wing Media...
Proverbs 2:1-5
My son, if you accept my words and store up my commands within you, turning your ear to wisdom and applying your heart to understanding, and if you call out for insight and cry aloud for understanding, and if you look for it as for silver and search for it as for hidden treasure, then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God.
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Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market Under Trump

Mycroft said:
That pdf that was presented only pertained to one specific type of medical insurance plan...the “Short-term, limited-duration insurance”. Furthermore, the section of the pdf that his quote came from also said that, to paraphrase, there is nothing that stops states from enacting their own rules regarding that type of insurance.
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That's the subject of the OP. And it's interesting that you don't defend the IMO inadequate disclosure that the Trump people carefully considered and approved, but essentially blame the states for NOT doing what Trump didn't do. So if anyone is deceived or cheated, it's the states' fault for not doing what should have been done at the federal level.... Whatever it takes I guess to make sure the buck never stops on Trump's desk.

In any case, I wasn't talking about regulations...I was talking about laws. You know...those things that Congress is responsible for?
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I see, so if it's not the states' fault, it's the fault of Congress. See above. FWIW, the on the ground difference between a law and a regulation is hard to see. The difference is essentially who proposed them - Congress, or the executive branch under the authority of the laws written by Congress.
 
3leftsdoo said:
This was a HUGE problem long before Trump.

Obama made it worse, though there were of course problems preceding him as well.
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What is "this" and "it" that was a huge problem?

If you're referring to junk insurance, sold with inadequate insurance, that's stupid because Obama got rid of those policies and required all insurance to be sold with easy to understand summaries of coverage, and Trump brought them back with inadequate disclosures.
 
There's several reasons for that and why the cost of going to the doctor's office is so high and the solutions to help relieve them:

1. Government - This IS the number one reason for ALL the high costs. We pay nearly $1 trillion every year for Medicare and Medicaid through tax payer money, and when the people who have enrolled in this program finish their appointments with their doctors and the bill was sent to these 2 entities and payment comes in, the doctor's and their staff get next to NOTHING from these places. A lot of times, because this happens almost daily, Medicare and Medicaid both withhold money from doctors and their staff because, well, the government is quick to demand money from others, even threatening to fine them, but extremely slow in paying those that they need to pay, and it's never the promised amount (ends up being much smaller). Putting it simply the people running these programs are d!cks like that. There are many other factors to go along with this, but the solution to help bring the cost down on doctor costs is GET THE DAMN GOVERNMENT OUT OF THE WAY AND LET THE FREE MARKET HAVE FREE REIGN!

2. Health Insurance Companies - This is problem number two. As said earlier, the health insurance companies are businesses first and want their money. People over pay for these businesses, and like the government, although not to the extreme that the government does, they too withhold money from the doctors and their staff. Two solutions here if you want to see prices go down, and those are erase state lines and choose insurance that won't cost much and the doctors and their staff get paid, or get out of insurance entirely and pay cash (like I'm doing right now), with or with out a health savings account. The insurances will get in line because they want your business, but one thing to keep in mind, it's better to stay loyal to the doctor you like than to stay loyal to your insurance company. Other wise, it'll be the insurance company that will dictate what you can and can't do.

3. Big Pharma - There are people out there that do need medication. However, what most people don't realize not everything can be resolved with pills. Unfortunately, big pharma knows how to be persuasive with people. They'll put out their ads, saying if you 'X' for 'XX', your 'XX' will be cured (basically is their message). But for anyone that knows, it's not the case and the big pharma guys know it. Due to the high demand, though, they jack the prices up because there's nothing else available anywhere else with the street cred to get their name out their, and the insurance companies won't cover the better meds because they're too expensive. The solution here is to elect the right people that will set up a deal with Canada and other countries with the same drugs at a much lower price. Big pharma would start losing money and would have no choice but to lower their prices so they can compete and the insurance companies would be able to pick up some of the cost.

4. People - In the end, it ultimately comes down to people. Do many people have health problems? Yes. Do some of them have financial issues? Yes. Is it necessary to be on Medicare and/or Medicaid? No. Is it necessary to have health insurance? No. Is the type of medication they're taking actually going to heal them? No. My advice to people out there, figure out your financials for payments to the doctors office, then save up. Do NOT rely on insurance companies to get you out of paying your bill. If the bill is $50, pay $50 and use your insurance another time. Lastly, take care of your body. Only you can do it. The doctors can help, yes, but YOU need to take the initiative in doing so. I found out, after 12 years of not going to the dentist, I have neglected the health of my teeth and now I have to go through an expensive process. But now I know what I need to do to make them healthy again, thanks to my doctor, and now I'm taking steps to make sure my teeth are healthy again. If you have diabetes, stop eating so much sugar? Overweight? Start dieting. There are ways to help lower the cost of healthcare, but it comes down to the individual to make it happen and them not putting all of their bills on someone else in which they won't pay and meds that don't do much. YOU need to take care of yourself. Most of you are adults, put on your big boy/girl pants on and take responsibility for your own actions.
 
Greenbeard said:
"Fewer than 100,000 people had such plans at the end of last year, according to state insurance regulators, but the Trump administration says that number will jump by 600,000 in 2019 as a result of the changes"
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I'm not sure the optics on this are as great as you seem to think they are. These are the same garbage plans that the Democrats were mandating that people buy under Obamacare.

So now it's bad that people have them? Huh....

I mean, this outrage just feeds the old joke: Democrats don't care what you do, so long as it is mandatory.
 
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jmotivator said:
I'm not sure the optics on this are as great as you seem to think they are. These are the same garbage plans that the Democrats were mandating that people buy under Obamacare.
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I’m trying to grasp the state of confusion one would have to be in to believe ACA non-compliant plans were mandatory under the ACA.

But this seems to be a learning opportunity so let me bring you up to speed. Under the ACA, plans can’t discriminate based on pre-existing conditions. They can’t vary premiums based on factors like your gender or your health history. They have to offer a comprehensive slate of basic benefits. They can’t impose annual or lifetime dollar limits on coverage. They cap the amount of cost-sharing (deductibles and co-insurance). They’re subject to rate review by regulators and have to devote at least 80% of enrollee premiums to actual medical care. That’s what being ACA compliant means. It’s a package of consumer protections and rules on insurers that make the market work for buyers.

Trump’s junk plans are exempted from all of those consumer protection requirements. They violate not only the spirit of the ACA but its actual rules as well. Hence the problems buyers are experiencing.
 
jmotivator said:
I'm not sure the optics on this are as great as you seem to think they are. These are the same garbage plans that the Democrats were mandating that people buy under Obamacare.
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They are not the same plans, at all, so why are you writing such nonsense? What part of the ACA mandated that families buy plans that do NOT comply with the ACA disclosures or minimum coverage requirements, etc. and therefore very explicitly would NOT count as 'insurance' for purposes of the penalty for being uninsured?
 
Greenbeard said:
I’m trying to grasp the state of confusion one would have to be in to believe ACA non-compliant plans were mandatory under the ACA.
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The plan detailed in the story that was purchased by the couple was purchased during the Obama administration. How could it have been non-ACA compliant, or Trump's fault? :roll:
 
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