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Thread: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market Under Trump

  1. #121
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    Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market Under Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I support laws that require an insurance seller to honestly present all the details of a plan they want to sell. I support the notion of "caveat emptor".

    If the details of a plan were honestly presented and the buyer agreed to buy the plan, they have nobody to blame but themselves if they didn't understand what they were buying.

    What do you tell employees of companies whose bosses decided to buy policies like this and tell their employees that they have health care coverage?

    That used to be a widespread practice, particularly in retail, with some of the biggest players doing it (Home Depot, Wal Mart, etc).

    That went away with the Affordable Care Act.

    Right wingers used the end of these junk policies to claim that people weren’t being able to “keep” their insurance (even though it was worthless), and pay lots more (for real insurance).

    But Trump wanted to bring the predatory practices back. And, as we see, a whole bunch of hucksters jumped on board to cash in.

    This right wing argument about “choice” is bogus anyway. Few American pick their health insurance or pay most of the premium. Their bosses do. The employee gets what the boss picks.

    And if the boss changes insurers, it’s too bad of you don’t get to keep your doctor.

  2. #122
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    Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market Under Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Every time I read about ACA I'm reminded of KY. When ACA rolled out, the people trying to get those people signed up couldn't call it the ACA or Obamacare, because that didn't work, but it was fine to sign people up for Kynect, which was Obamacare. And polls showed people loved Kynect, but hated the ACA. Propaganda works. It's not all the problem, obviously, but there's a big PR problem that isn't related to actual concerns about the ACA.
    Yeah it was the same in lots of red states that expanded Medicaid. Reminds me of all those young looking old people with signs that said keep the government outta my healthcare....when asked they had medicare.
    Propaganda works and then as human nature kicks in no ond ever wants to admit they were wrong, conned etc.

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    Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market Under Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I haven't seen any evidence that anyone has been scammed...only that people didn't know what they were buying.

    Well, when it comes to the negative effects of Trump actions, you do tend to break your neck looking the other way!

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    Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market Under Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Middle_Ground View Post
    Yeah it was the same in lots of red states that expanded Medicaid. Reminds me of all those young looking old people with signs that said keep the government outta my healthcare....when asked they had medicare.
    Propaganda works and then as human nature kicks in no ond ever wants to admit they were wrong, conned etc.
    Actually, most red states did not expand their Medicaid programs and did not join the ACA.

    Consequently, their citizens pay more and get less.

    But their leaders put ideology (and lobbyist money)ahead of the public interest, and the right wing noise machine isn’t going to tell them that they’ve been had.

  5. #125
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    Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market Under Trump

    Caveat emptor would tell you that healthcare collections is so overwhelmed that one can get by with not buying any insurance at all and not paying one's medical bills with just a little astuteness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I support laws that require an insurance seller to honestly present all the details of a plan they want to sell. I support the notion of "caveat emptor".

    If the details of a plan were honestly presented and the buyer agreed to buy the plan, they have nobody to blame but themselves if they didn't understand what they were buying.

  6. #126
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    Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market Under Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    Before Obamacare, I had private insurance and it was a better policy than Obamacare with cheaper premiums, even with my two pre-existing conditions. After Obamacare we couldn't afford Obamacare premiums and my stay at home wife had to go out and get a job with employer insurance.
    The pre-existing conditions deal is more tied to denial of coverage than it is to premiums. The problem with health insurance in general is it is a risk pool and there is no way to ethically penalize someone for getting sick.

    You can get sick through absolutely no fault of your own; compared to other "insurance" risks are generally one the client chooses to take on; hurricane prone areas, areas prone to wildfire, etc. Clients understand that choosing to live in an area carries a risk they are willing to mitigate via insurance.

    Health insurance removes the choice in most areas and penalizes people, via denials of coverage or increased premiums, due to things the client did not choose. Unless we're discussing obesity or smoking related illness, the vast majority of illness are through no choice motives.

    This is why a for profit industry does not work when it comes to HC. The incentive to deny claims at all cost is too high and too great.
    #BDS

    No forgiveness here remains.

  7. #127
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    Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market Under Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    These things have existed for decades, they skate by because they're short-term, not insurance, and thus not regulated as such.
    That is just plain false. The OP itself stated quite clearly that the ACA addressed this type of coverage, it exists because the ACA allowed it to exist.

    The OP, and you apparently, are pissed off because this cheap, stop gap coverage has expanded availability to those who can't afford the more expensive insurance can have something.

    What would the other options under the ACA? Coverage that a person between jobs can't afford?
    “A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading.” ― C.S. Lewis

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    Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market Under Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    The median deductible for a plan purchased in the marketplace in 2016 (the last year before the Trump administration stopped reporting on this) was $850. But if you want to lower the cap on out-of-pocket spending, let’s do it!
    Unlike everyone else in both parties, I don't want to run up the national debt.

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    Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market Under Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscurity View Post
    Health insurance removes the choice in most areas and penalizes people, via denials of coverage or increased premiums, due to things the client did not choose. Unless we're discussing obesity or smoking related illness, the vast majority of illness are through no choice motives.
    The number one killer of Americans is heart disease. The top risk factors for heart disease are obesity/poor diet, smoking, and lack of exercise, all of which are personal choices.

    Your argument is equivalent to saying, "Dental insurance penalizes people for things they did not choose, other than consuming large amounts of sugar and never brushing their teeth."

  10. #130
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    Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market Under Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by TomFitz View Post
    What do you tell employees of companies whose bosses decided to buy policies like this and tell their employees that they have health care coverage?

    That used to be a widespread practice, particularly in retail, with some of the biggest players doing it (Home Depot, Wal Mart, etc).

    That went away with the Affordable Care Act.

    Right wingers used the end of these junk policies to claim that people weren’t being able to “keep” their insurance (even though it was worthless), and pay lots more (for real insurance).

    But Trump wanted to bring the predatory practices back. And, as we see, a whole bunch of hucksters jumped on board to cash in.

    This right wing argument about “choice” is bogus anyway. Few American pick their health insurance or pay most of the premium. Their bosses do. The employee gets what the boss picks.

    And if the boss changes insurers, it’s too bad of you don’t get to keep your doctor.
    Employees always have a choice...go with the group insurance policy the employer offers, contract with an insurance company for an individual policy or opt to live with no insurance. With less government regulations, even more options may be created. The more options, the more choices. But keep in mind that being able to choose requires taking responsibility for your choice. If you screw up and make the wrong choice, it's on you. The taxpayer shouldn't bail you out.

    Bottom line on Obamacare...nobody has ever "forced" consumers to buy something until Obama came along. Obama eliminated choice.
    TANSTAAFL
    When I "dismiss" you it only means that I have determined that further discussion is useless or counter-productive. Don't take it personally. Go ahead and have your last word...and move on.

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