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4-year-old boy shot dead allegedly by 5-year-old sibling while mom slept in another room: Police

Bum said:
Unlikely.....leaving a firearm out where children can reasonably get at it hardly falls under any aspect of the 2A.
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That's a reasonable opinion. There are no more reasonable opinions on guns thanks to the gun nuts. ANY regulation is seen by them as unconstitutional. I actually had a gun nut here tryong to tell me that the Second Amendment gave everybody the right to be a warlord.
 
rocket88 said:
That's a reasonable opinion. There are no more reasonable opinions on guns thanks to the gun nuts. ANY regulation is seen by them as unconstitutional. I actually had a gun nut here tryong to tell me that the Second Amendment gave everybody the right to be a warlord.
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Unfortunately there will always be those with extreme opinions on both sides of the debate.
 
rocket88 said:
First of all, if we offer something for free that's "socialism!"
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No, it' not. Socialism is public ownership/control of the means of production. Socialism is not "when the government does stuff".

If it's not a requirement, it doesn't change anything at all.
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In other words, if it's not coercive, you don't like it. Why doesn't that surprise me?

Why don't we just mske a pilot's license optional?
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Sounds good to me. Orville Wright didn't have a license.
 
Waddy said:
Training is a good idea, however you set it up. What training does is create a mindset. If it is safety training, of any type, and most all industries do it now; it's like muscle memory for your mind. Go over and over it until it becomes second nature. So yes, safety training directed at keeping guns away from small children would have a beneficial effect.
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No, because safety training for gun ownership would NOT prevent 100% of all accidental deaths. So that's no good. Therefore, everyone everywhere must always have access to firearms at all times. Any restriction whatsoever is tyranny.
 
vegas giants said:
A trigger lock is a few dollars
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A trigger lock doesn't prevent theft and theft prevention is one aspect of gun security laws. There'll be no law that only mandates trigger locks. Not to mention, it renders a self defense weapon useless.
 
Scarab said:
Did you straight up lift that from opponents of voter ID laws? Do you support voter ID laws but oppose secure firearm storage laws?
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Yes...
 
apdst said:
A trigger lock doesn't prevent theft and theft prevention is one aspect of gun security laws. There'll be no law that only mandates trigger locks. Not to mention, it renders a self defense weapon useless.
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I'm quite sure you take your gun in the shower with you.



Be prepared. Lol
 
Stealers Wheel said:
LINK

Well, what can be said? Simply another sacrifice on the sacred altar of the 2nd amendment.

Oh yeah, almost forgot: Thoughts and prayers, thoughts and prayers, etc., etc.
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Very sad when a tragedy happens

YouTube

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 
Bad parenting is bad and they should feel bad for being bad parents, but it's also bad to blame the bad 2nd amendment for your bad argument and your bad inability to truly be bad.
 
Lursa said:
Better take the cops' guns too then.

Few years ago here, an off-duty cop left a loaded gun in his glove compartment in his van with his 7 yr old son and 3 yr old daughter. Went into shop. Son got gun and shot and killed sister.

We will always have stupid and irresponsible people. I'd rather see the right to breed restricted before my means to defend myself from more of them and the clones they raise.
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It ended in hung jury, and was not retried. The prosecution spoke like the cop was the victim. And felt that he had suffered enough.I don't believe that accidents happen with guns, only criminal neglect.
He should have been retried, any other civilian would have been.
 
Chillfolks said:
I am not niave enough to thibk passing such a law would reduce these incidents significantly, I support such laws as a way of making charging reckless behaviour easier.
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And ignore the fact that it can mean more danger to others? Just to make a 'feel-good' point?

I have no kids, nor do any come to my house anymore, my friends are all older, it's rural fenced property. Why should I reduce my odds in having my house gun less accessible in times of need?

Of course such safety measures are a good idea. Education, financial incentives, etc...sure. Mandated by govt that punishes me? No.

We do have such a law here, to lock up firearms, but you wont be charged if you report it stolen. I still disagree with the law but it offers the law-abiding an 'out' if we are the victims of robbery.
 
Lursa said:
And ignore the fact that it can mean more danger to others? Just to make a 'feel-good' point?

I have no kids, nor do any come to my house anymore, my friends are all older, it's rural fenced property. Why should I reduce my odds in having my house gun less accessible in times of need?

Of course such safety measures are a good idea. Education, financial incentives, etc...sure. Mandated by govt that punishes me? No.
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If you had read my post in it’s entirety instead of jump to a knee jerk reaction you would of noticed I said the law only applies to homes with children under the age of 16. If you don’t have children under the age of 16 then you would not need to store your firearms either in a safe, lockbox, or with a trigger lock.
 
Minty_fresh said:
It ended in hung jury, and was not retried. The prosecution spoke like the cop was the victim. And felt that he had suffered enough.I don't believe that accidents happen with guns, only criminal neglect.
He should have been retried, any other civilian would have been.
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I'm well aware of it...I was one of many that emailed in and asked why he wasnt charged initially. The same week, a Hispanic couple over in Yakima left their 3 yr old in their car and he found a gun under the seat and killed himself. They were charged immediately.

I received a response (because I pointed that out in my email) that "it was a different jurisdiction, they're not all the same." Anyway, the reason the cop was charged at all was because people did call and write in.

I call bull**** on the 'suffered enough' sentiment...I see hypocrisy. I also would have liked to see him retried but the prosecutor said he didnt believe the outcome would be different.
 
Stealers Wheel said:
Then tell me, will this woman be charged with a crime? Again, I give you even odds that she will not be prosecuted. "She's suffered enough," is what they will tells us.

No matter how the next tragedy unfolds, whether it is a mass killing by a madman or a baby being blown away with a gun for self protection, you will once again stand up for our beloved 2nd amendment. No matter how many innocents die needlessly, we must never, ever do anything to curtail access to firearms under any circumstances.
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I see this on par with the parents that leave kids in the backseat that die in the heat. Do you believe they should be charged with some type of homicide? If you believe they should be charged differently than the woman in this situation (if she's charged)...why?
 
Deleted.
 
Waddy said:
Training is a good idea, however you set it up. What training does is create a mindset. If it is safety training, of any type, and most all industries do it now; it's like muscle memory for your mind. Go over and over it until it becomes second nature. So yes, safety training directed at keeping guns away from small children would have a beneficial effect.
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Nobody ever says that training is a bad idea...at least not that I've read or heard.

It's the presumption that most people dont get it that's wrong IMO, and certainly that govt mandated training is wrong IMO.
 
Bum said:
Unfortunately there will always be those with extreme opinions on both sides of the debate.
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Well then pools arent 'a right,' so should the govt just forbid people with kids under 18 from having pools?

Sorry, that is extreme, just trying to make a point for both sides to consider.
 
Chillfolks said:
If you had read my post in it’s entirety instead of jump to a knee jerk reaction you would of noticed I said the law only applies to homes with children under the age of 16. If you don’t have children under the age of 16 then you would not need to store your firearms either in a safe, lockbox, or with a trigger lock.
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Apologies, you are right. I have just read it so many times and the law here does not specify that.
 
3leftsdoo said:
Just to be clear:

Having lost one child in a tragic accident, you want to lock the surviving child's out-of-her-mind-with-grief-and-guilt mother up because...?

Liberals - their truth is truly stranger than fiction...
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Oh, this is too perfect. A mother commits at least three crimes while caring for her two young children. The commission of her crimes results in the death of one of the children. And not only do you want this criminal to go without so much as a trial, but you also want me to repeat for the third time what she did wrong.

Keep your generalized liberal bashing crap out of my face and learn how to take a side with independence of brain control from the mother hive at the RNC.
 
Scarab said:
Oh, this is too perfect. A mother commits at least three crimes while caring for her two young children. The commission of her crimes results in the death of one of the children. And not only do you want this criminal to go without so much as a trial, but you also want me to repeat for the third time what she did wrong.

Keep your generalized liberal bashing crap out of my face and learn how to take a side with independence of brain control from the mother hive at the RNC.
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lets run with your argument

I agree, people should not leave loaded firearms in areas where untrained or too young to be trained children can get hold of them, and I have no problem with fining people or removing the firearm if they do that

however, now that the child is dead, tell us what benefit society would gain by jailing the mother (assuming she was the one who left the gun out)
 
TurtleDude said:
lets run with your argument

I agree, people should not leave loaded firearms in areas where untrained or too young to be trained children can get hold of them, and I have no problem with fining people or removing the firearm if they do that

however, now that the child is dead, tell us what benefit society would gain by jailing the mother (assuming she was the one who left the gun out)
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The gun thing is irrelevant to me. In fact, it's clouding the judgment of what appear to me to be good posters and thoughtful people. I'm looking at it from the following perspective.

I am a mandated reporter. I am required to report bruises, malnutrition, even repeated unkempt and disheveled appearances. The death of a child is most definitely something law enforcement needs to investigate. Without the benefit of trial information at this time, reporting tells us that the mother was asleep. That alone is child neglect. Leaving the gun accessible constituted negligence and child endangerment. The same would be true of an active fireplace, an uncovered pool, or a set of sushi knives. Again, the gun is not the focal point. I believe that the woman is racked with grief and guilt. Those are byproducts of her actions. I have great empathy, but we don't let drunk drivers who commit vehicular homicide go home just because they feel bad and have another child at home to raise. Prosecution and application of the law should not be so subjective as that to allow an allegedly guilty person to suffer no consequences under the law.
 
Scarab said:
The gun thing is irrelevant to me. In fact, it's clouding the judgment of what appear to me to be good posters and thoughtful people. I'm looking at it from the following perspective.

I am a mandated reporter. I am required to report bruises, malnutrition, even repeated unkempt and disheveled appearances. The death of a child is most definitely something law enforcement needs to investigate. Without the benefit of trial information at this time, reporting tells us that the mother was asleep. That alone is child neglect. Leaving the gun accessible constituted negligence and child endangerment. The same would be true of an active fireplace, an uncovered pool, or a set of sushi knives. Again, the gun is not the focal point. I believe that the woman is racked with grief and guilt. Those are byproducts of her actions. I have great empathy, but we don't let drunk drivers who commit vehicular homicide go home just because they feel bad and have another child at home to raise. Prosecution and application of the law should not be so subjective as that to allow an allegedly guilty person to suffer no consequences under the law.
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I understand all of that but we have a remaining child who (I assume it was negligent with no mal intent) now has the blood of a sibling on its (the article did not specify the gender of the shooter) hands for the rest of its life. Is that child more likely to end up a productive member of society if its mother is jailed at a time that the child needs its mother in a most serious way?
 
Stealers Wheel said:
LINK

Well, what can be said? Simply another sacrifice on the sacred altar of the 2nd amendment.

Oh yeah, almost forgot: Thoughts and prayers, thoughts and prayers, etc., etc.
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Sacrificed at the altar of parental negligence? Lets pray for parents to be parents.
 
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