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Homeowner shoots and kills home invader

Although on the surface, I believe this to be a good shoot. There are reasons to use 'alleged' or 'suspected'.

Things aren't always what they seem to be.

This happened earlier this year. At the time it looked like a good drug bust and the charged ex-police officer was being hailed a hero for busting down the door and taking out the drug dealers. Only problem was they weren't.

A former Houston police officer was charged with two counts of murder for allegedly lying to justify warrants for a January drug raid that killed two people and wounded five officers, prosecutors said Friday.
[...]
Family and friends of Tuttle and Nicholas have always maintained the two never sold drugs. Small amounts of marijuana and cocaine were found in the house but no heroin.

Ex-Houston police officer charged with murder after deadly drug raid
 
So you're whining that the fake news accurately reported the story, and you don't like that the headline was accurate.

If it was accurate, why did they call it a home invasion in the video?
 
It sounds like you're saying people need guns to punish criminals. Is that what you meant?

I'll tell you straight up... A criminal should expect he is risking his life by entering a home to commit crimes. I applaud the thugs who consider it acceptable risk
 
Nothing like being judge, jury and executioner. No need for a long drawn out trial.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
So you are criticizing the homeowner's actions?

A Cumberland County homeowner shot and killed a suspected burglar Wednesday night, authorities said.

Deputies went to 507 Snow Hill Road at about 8:30 p.m. in response to a reported burglary. The homeowner, 46-year-old Tony Libson, told deputies two masked individuals broke into his home and shot him, but he was able to return fire.

Deputies found Henry Miller, 23, dead outside the home. The second intruder is believed to have fled after the shooting, possibly in a white sedan, authorities said.

Cumberland homeowner shoots, kills suspected burglar :: WRAL.com

What are your plans to protect yourself/family in this same situation?
 
I'm not the poster you responded to, but I see nothing wrong when a victim metes out the appropriate punishment, as was the case here. The victim did society a favor by killing one of the thugs.

It was self defense not punishment. The first and only concern is self protection. 'Punishment' is just the universe's response: injury or death.
 
Yeah, I get it. Dead men tell no tales. :roll:

But seriously, in this case, I watched the news story and don't know a thing about the homeowner or the suspects, but the house doesn't APPEAR to be a natural target for an armed home invasion. So I'd think "alleged" is pretty wise here. What did they think they'd find worth the risk of getting shot and that justified masks when the guy was home, and not at 10am when they're all gone.... :confused:
According to the news.. the homeowner reported that the home invaders shot him first.. and he returned fire. So.. it sounds like they were there for much more than "burglary". as reported.
 
According to the news.. the homeowner reported that the home invaders shot him first.. and he returned fire. So.. it sounds like they were there for much more than "burglary". as reported.
I'm glad Beto didn't take his gun and he was able to defend himself.
 
I won't wait to find out if you're just there "for stuff". Breaking into my home is nefarious intent enough, I WILL shoot without hesitation at an intruder. Don't care if he was just after the flat screen, I'm not risking waiting to find out if he's got other plans.
I understand but I don't want to shoot an unarmed teenager over stuff. Stuff can be replaced. But I'm not criticizing your decision though.

A few year back I had just got home to an empty home and I walked into the master bed room. Out of the bathroom walked a 6'2" ish 240lb ish male. I was unarmed. I thought it was fight or flight. Then I realize he was the mentally handicapped son of a couple than had just moved in across the alley. It scared the poop out of me though. And if I had been armed I might have shot him. My son had left the house without locking the back door and the handicapped man-child had wandered into my home looking for his sibling.
'

I know of a Grand Prairie Tx police officer that shot a guy that was climbing into his house through a bed room window. It was at night in the dark it was a male figure in a dark hoody. It was his own son. He killed him.
 
He has AR 15?
LOTS of people use AR's for home defense. A couple of years ago in Dallas a teenager shot and killed two home intruder with an AR. I'd prefer a pump shot gun but to each his own.
 
It sounds like you're saying people need guns to punish criminals. Is that what you meant?


I dont know what he meant but I'll say that people don't own guns to punish criminals. ....they own guns to defend themselves and there property.

Personally I have both a 12 quage riot shotgun loaded with buckshot and a Glock 20 witha fifteen round double stacked clip......and I can't seem to get a home invasion to save my life......
 
In this case it had nothing to do with punishment. One suspect actually shot the homeowner, who luckily survived and returned fire.
It was about returning fire - - to prevent BEING KILLED by the suspect.

If you're not a gun owner, and you're not keen on guns at all, I can respect that.
But in return, you need to respect the fact that there are occasions WHERE a gun owner really doesn't have much choice but to return fire.
If you have been shot, it's awfully difficult sometimes to retreat.
But more importantly, one should never have to retreat in their own home or their own business.
It is not only unreasonable, it's even more dangerous to you, the home or business owner, than returning fire, because people do get killed even while they are attempting to retreat.
Why? Simple...the same reason a homeowner with a gun says "Don't move, or I'll shoot".
A criminal oftentimes says the same exact thing..."Don't move, or I'll shoot.", and if you attempt to retreat, you're moving, and you will be shot.
But all in all, demanding that a home or business owner retreat is just plain unreasonable.

Homeowners and business owners who are being subjected to an attack are not thinking about punishing anybody, they're thinking about staying alive.
To put it simply, if it comes down to "him or me", I am voting "ME" every single time, even if it means "HIM" has to die for being stupid enough to break into my home or business.
If I could use a non-lethal magical stopping ray device that would incapacitate a person instantly from a distance, I would choose that instead.
Such a magical invention does not exist.
Poor substitutes which cannot guarantee results exist.
Sorry, not good enough.

I am not a gun nut with an extensive collection of firearms. I am not a member of the NRA or any other similar group, I don't subscribe to Guns and Ammo and I don't hang out in gun enthusiast forums. But I am a liberal gun owner. I have two main guns, a Makarov and a Taurus, both pistols, and I have a very old and decrepit (neglected) Winchester hunting rifle which is in need of a lot of TLC because it hasn't even been unpacked in almost thirty years and I wouldn't trust it in its present condition without a going-over by a gunsmith.

To me, they are APPLIANCES, much like an alarm system or a deadbolt lock.
But unlike deadbolt locks and alarm systems, I can trust these appliances to work every single time, and work well.
And I hope I never have to find out how well they do work, but I will not hesitate at the moment of truth.
And that's not from any desire to "punish" anybody, it's from simple self-preservation instinct, for me and my loved ones.
Statistically speaking, you are more likely to use a gun to kill yourself or a loved one than a home invader. Some folks live in particularly dangerous areas or have particularly dangerous jobs, but outside of that, guns seem like a bad bet. IMO, for the average person, having a gun for personal safety is kind of like using lottery tickets as a retirement strategy.
 
I understand but I don't want to shoot an unarmed teenager over stuff. Stuff can be replaced. But I'm not criticizing your decision though.

A few year back I had just got home to an empty home and I walked into the master bed room. Out of the bathroom walked a 6'2" ish 240lb ish male. I was unarmed. I thought it was fight or flight. Then I realize he was the mentally handicapped son of a couple than had just moved in across the alley. It scared the poop out of me though. And if I had been armed I might have shot him. My son had left the house without locking the back door and the handicapped man-child had wandered into my home looking for his sibling.
'

I know of a Grand Prairie Tx police officer that shot a guy that was climbing into his house through a bed room window. It was at night in the dark it was a male figure in a dark hoody. It was his own son. He killed him.
Its always the heartstrings stories I don't buy.
 
According to the news.. the homeowner reported that the home invaders shot him first.. and he returned fire. So.. it sounds like they were there for much more than "burglary". as reported.

Yeah, looks like there might be something missing from that story. But "burglary" is the correct legal term here. It just doesn't capture what might have been the purpose of that alleged burglary.
 
I dont know what he meant but I'll say that people don't own guns to punish criminals. ....they own guns to defend themselves and there property.

Personally I have both a 12 gauge riot shotgun loaded with buckshot and a Glock 20 witha fifteen round double stacked clip......and I can't seem to get a home invasion to save my life......
I use a Tarus SS Judge with 3 home defense .410 rounds and 2 Hornady 45 rounds. And I CC a Glock 27 with and extended magazine ( 2 extra rounds) with Hornady self defense rounds.
 
Statistically speaking, you are more likely to use a gun to kill yourself or a loved one than a home invader. Some folks live in particularly dangerous areas or have particularly dangerous jobs, but outside of that, guns seem like a bad bet. IMO, for the average person, having a gun for personal safety is kind of like using lottery tickets as a retirement strategy.

Statistically you are possibly correct as long as you account for a statistical field which includes all instances where firearm ownership is neutral, benign, uneventful, even boring.
You could be talking about anybody, or their dad, or granddad, or even grandmothers.
I knew quite a few old grannies that packed, a few old Italian nonnies in New York, a few North Carolinians who moved up to the DC suburbs for those good postwar civil service jobs with the gummint. I knew four mothers of friends of mine, one white, the other two black, and one Ojibwe, who all packed.

None of these people ever did anything, and nothing was ever done to them, nothing of consequence anyway.
All these old folks lived out their entire lives, with a gun around them for their entire adult lives, and nothing ever happened.
And that is by far the largest statistic.

So what you're arguing for might, at least in part, suggest some kind of miracle 100% guarantee that no gun violence will ever happen, because there are no guns.
I can respect that. I do respect that. But it's not real.

And what we can both respect is the idea of trying to right some of the wrongs that lead to too many sick people going over the edge and doing stupid things.
And we can make dents in that sort of thing, from many angles, some which might at first blush, sound surprising.

So yes, statistically more people wind up doing stupid things like shooting themselves, accidentally or intentionally, or their loved ones, also accidentally or intentionally. Yes, that does happen.
Instances where a firearm owner actually winds up using their piece for self-defense are rare.
But they are no less real, is that not so?

That is the reason you are statistically more likely to use a gun to kill yourself or a loved one than on a home invader, or a robber, or a carjacker, or a rapist...because instances where one DOES use it on a bad guy are rare.
I don't view either of those essential truths to be a determining factor in my own personal firearm ownership.

Besides, what kind of a world would it be IF legitimate firearms use outnumbered stupid accidents and tragedy?
I'll tell you. It would mean, for one thing, that you're living in a world without legitimate law enforcement, and that is because the majority of people DO rely on professional law enforcement, and that is not a bad thing.
Here's why, at least for me anyway:

I don't give a **** about any notion of seeing myself as some kind of citizen enforcer, or vigilante, or any other George Zimmerman-esque alter ego fantasy. I think I stated earlier that I view my firearms as appliances, and the use of them as nothing more than another option. I don't harbor any delusions about my chances being better in a tight spot because that is impossible to say unless you can predict what each situation is going to be like.

So, Mister Exo...you might be making good points but please take care not to be too quick to plaster some kind of 1-size-fits-all one dimensional generic overlay on all gun owners. I've just been around them most of my life and they never were any big deal. They were just there, that's all.
 
How can you guarantee it when we have plenty of examples where even "stand your own ground" cases against unarmed people have allowed shooters to walk free? You would be better off gambling on the fact that this homeowner will walk because he was protecting his family from a home invader.

THIS, by the way, is what the gun is mostly for.

Absolutely.

Hey kids, here are the commonly known uses for firearms. :rock :shoot
First, here are the common legit uses:

1. Self defense, saving your own life or the lives of your loved ones.

2. For hire, private security

3. Hunting

4. Target shooting (professional or amateur sporting events)

5. Showing off at gun shows, buying, collecting, selling

6. Just sitting around plinking at stuff in the yard for giggles, if you live someplace where that is feasible

---There ARE other legitimate uses but they are not common. One of them has not come up since the birth of our country.

Ummmm, I think we all already know most or all of the illegitimate uses, so I feel I can skip them ;)

One illegitimate use is to "solve any kind of problem NOT HAPPENING IN REAL TIME", or any kind of problem that starts with words, other than the words "You're a dead man" or equivalent.
Anything else that starts with words must never end in gunfire.

Point is, not everyone understands the list as well as we think they do.
 
Cumberland homeowner shoots, kills suspected burglar :: WRAL.com


It's interesting how they use the sugar-coated term "suspected burglar" in the headline, but in the video she says what they really were, which is masked home invaders.

Ohio Mom Accidentally Shoots Daughter Who Comes Home From College in Surprise Visit | Inside Edition

An 18-year-old college student was shot by her mother when the girl came home on a recent unexpected visit, authorities said.

Hannah Jones ran into her mother's bedroom in Girard, Ohio, hoping to surprise her. Instead, she frightened her mom, who has a concealed weapon carrying permit, police said. Renee Jones, thinking there was an intruder, fired one round at the doorway, hitting her daughter in the arm.
 
And if I had been armed I might have shot him. My son had left the house without locking the back door and the handicapped man-child had wandered into my home looking for his sibling.

You might have indeed, or you might not have. You might have "almost shot him" until he opened his mouth and you realized he was a special needs kid. There is no way to predict.

I know of a Grand Prairie Tx police officer that shot a guy that was climbing into his house through a bed room window. It was at night in the dark it was a male figure in a dark hoody. It was his own son. He killed him.

I'm going to venture a guess that a cop's kid knows there's a risk they might get shot.
The one thing I made very clear to BOTH my kids is, there is NOTHING you can do that is so terrible that you cannot come in the normal front door like a dignified human being. If you feel the need to do otherwise I would much rather we sit and talk it out. Both of them have always known this, and it has come in handy.

They also know that suspicious noises, like windows being forced open in the middle of the night, or doors being beaten on, or glass breaking, are signs to be prepared.
 
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