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Thread: North Carolina Republicans vote to override a budget veto in half-empty Assembly during 9/11 rememb

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    Re: North Carolina Republicans vote to override a budget veto in half-empty Assembly during 9/11 rem

    Republicans, north carolina, hmm, sounds like business as usual.
    When I stop answering you, there's a reason.......repeat, When I stop answering you, there's a reason.

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    Re: North Carolina Republicans vote to override a budget veto in half-empty Assembly during 9/11 rem

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityNow View Post
    You appear to like the element of ambiguity, and it has its place... but I won't spread it across the board to the extent that you do.
    I can see how some people think that saying "You know, there are two (or more) different ways of looking at that point, and the one(s) you didn't mention are ..." IS "being ambiguous.

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityNow View Post
    It might likely be why you don't present any "ideas"...
    Since I don't purport to be some sort of all-knowing creature, sometimes all I can do is point out what I see as the actual problem in the hopes that someone else will be able to suggest a solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityNow View Post
    As to Adam and Eve... well, Freedom of Religion is a Right EVERYONE in America has,
    At least that's what they tell you. You do know that, at various times in the history of what is not the United States of America that "freedom of religion" simply didn't exist with respect to some religions - don't you? You do know that, in the US today, "Religion A" might not be able to obtain approval to construct a "Religion A House of Worship" on "Site X" while "Religion B" would have absolutely no difficulty whatsoever to construct a "Religion B House of Worship" on the same site - don't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityNow View Post
    ...may not be so for people in other places about the world, ...
    There isn't any "maybe" about it. Of course, that might be because those other countries are NOT the United States of America and that means that the legal rights of Americans that are enshrined in the American constitution are not the same as the legal rights of people who do NOT live in the United States of America.

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityNow View Post
    ...but I happen to take and have faith in THE PRINCIPLES of God Premise, which the Bible has a very good lay out of principles which I accept.
    Statements like that always make me want to ask "Which parts of 'The Bible' are you referring to?" and "Did you know that (other than 'Christ' [as a named individual] was the Son of God) there is very little that is in 'The Bible' that wasn't included in earlier 'Holy Books', and that the 'Christ Story' is almost identical to the stories of other individuals that well predated 'the birth of Christ'?".

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityNow View Post
    ... and I know there are many details in parables not covered in fine-line detail. Therefore, as to Adam and Eve, I see it as a parable in some ways, because I have inquiry of where the people in the "East of Eden" came to exist.
    If you cannot accept the known fact that "The Bible" is the 100% precisely accurate, divinely inspired, absolutely definitive, "Word of God", then you cannot be a "Real, True, Christian" (according to may "Real, True, Christians").

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityNow View Post
    I will accept Adam and Eve, before I accept "Evolutionary Theory".
    That, of course, is your right. You do know that "The Bible" says that the Earth is the center of the Universe, don't you? Do you accept that in preference to the "Copernican Theory"?

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityNow View Post
    I think I've spoken much about how "many working, and working poor whites have been hoodwinked for centuries by the wealthy, just as many black not only have been gravely deprived for centuries in America.
    Indeed you have. However I haven't seen you actually admit that, in other countries "many working, and working poor --[fill in the blank]__ have been hoodwinked for centuries by the wealthy".

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityNow View Post
    Yes, the people had many agenda's in their exodus from Europe, based on Monarchical Systems, their station is life "was not going to change". Many heard the tales of people boasting about "Coming to America, where the streets are paved with Gold and every man can be a King. (Geez!!!)
    Indeed, it does sound a lot like the "Biblical Paradise", doesn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityNow View Post
    We've seen for centuries people trying to create and claim A Faux Pretense of Self Proclaimed Royalty, based on having money.
    Yep, and those people have been "White", "Black", "Brown", "Yellow", "Red", and every possible admixture as well.
    I was told that the best things for me were to eat healthy foods, walk up hills, stop smoking cigars, and cut out drinking Scotch.
    With my record, I don't _DESERVE_ the best. What's second best?
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  3. #213
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    Re: North Carolina Republicans vote to override a budget veto in half-empty Assembly during 9/11 rem

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityNow View Post
    I think the pursuit of ideal of such sort to be rather foolish!!!
    Because, the historical premise of "Royalty" was not just about having money, but using it to sustain and to strengthen in resource and ability to protect their kingdom, and their kingdom was as much about protecting their land and people, their societial culture and their systems of regulatory governance within society, and programming to improve the lives within their system of society, while ensuring they controlled the "House(s) of Royalty".
    You mean sort of like what "the Republican Party" and "the Democratic Party" do today?

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityNow View Post
    Under that premise "having money in America held by individual citizens, does not have the same "principle civic moral agenda" as what established Royalty, and it not with the nature of civic character as that which established Royalty. I'm not an advocate of Monarchy, but I do grasp "the place" it had in the earlier time of developing societies.
    If your position is that "The Rich" (regardless of what other label you hang on them) SHOULD be "socially responsible" and use (at least a part of) their wealth in order to better the lot of those whose labour enabled them to amass that wealth, you do realize that you are coming close to what some people consider "socialism" - don't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityNow View Post
    As to North and South... NEITHER IS 100% INNOCENT... because they each allowed "Slavery to Persist for over 300+ yrs before they did come to war to stop it.
    You do realize that the United States of America was rather laggardly in actually ending slavery, don't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityNow View Post
    The North at least within all the mix that made up the North, did find means to collectively take a stand to fight to dissolve Slavery, and end the aims of Succession by the Southern States that had determined aim to prolong and spread slavery.
    Except that the American Civil War was NOT "all about slavery". Slavery was (seen as) needed in order for the economies of the Southern states to prosper. Ending slavery by dictat, enabled the Northern states to scupper the economies of the Southern states and that means a migration of wealth from the Southern states to the Northern states.

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityNow View Post
    Neither moved with any lightening pace and they maintained still means and system to "ration out" freedoms, as if they would regulate to what extent "freedom would actually mean for black people, based on what whites in power chose to "ration out".
    You do know that the people in power are almost always the ones who decide who gets what share of the power, don't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityNow View Post
    ... they were neither north nor south generous in their rationing, each step within the process had to be fought for, as its steps in progress of what is freedom is still being fought for this very day.
    "Freedom" ALWAYS has to be fought for. When a people stop fighting for freedom then the amount of freedom that that people has begins to decline because those who control a disproportionate share of societal power are always looking to increase the share of societal power that they control.
    I was told that the best things for me were to eat healthy foods, walk up hills, stop smoking cigars, and cut out drinking Scotch.
    With my record, I don't _DESERVE_ the best. What's second best?
    (Retirement Dinner remarks)



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    Re: North Carolina Republicans vote to override a budget veto in half-empty Assembly during 9/11 rem

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Show us an equivalent example.

    You can't. Everyone knows you can't.
    I dunno. Maybe the Mueller investigation????
    "Elitism is not just for the rich and powerful. Elitism is everywhere. The cry of the 'Nouveau-elite' is: You can't be racist but I can be racist. You can't be sexist but I can be sexist. You can't be fascist but I can act like a fascist and fascism only happens on the right." 01/09/19

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    Re: North Carolina Republicans vote to override a budget veto in half-empty Assembly during 9/11 rem

    Quote Originally Posted by TU Curmudgeon View Post
    I can see how some people think that saying "You know, there are two (or more) different ways of looking at that point, and the one(s) you didn't mention are ..." IS "being ambiguous.



    Since I don't purport to be some sort of all-knowing creature, sometimes all I can do is point out what I see as the actual problem in the hopes that someone else will be able to suggest a solution.



    At least that's what they tell you. You do know that, at various times in the history of what is not the United States of America that "freedom of religion" simply didn't exist with respect to some religions - don't you? You do know that, in the US today, "Religion A" might not be able to obtain approval to construct a "Religion A House of Worship" on "Site X" while "Religion B" would have absolutely no difficulty whatsoever to construct a "Religion B House of Worship" on the same site - don't you?



    There isn't any "maybe" about it. Of course, that might be because those other countries are NOT the United States of America and that means that the legal rights of Americans that are enshrined in the American constitution are not the same as the legal rights of people who do NOT live in the United States of America.



    Statements like that always make me want to ask "Which parts of 'The Bible' are you referring to?" and "Did you know that (other than 'Christ' [as a named individual] was the Son of God) there is very little that is in 'The Bible' that wasn't included in earlier 'Holy Books', and that the 'Christ Story' is almost identical to the stories of other individuals that well predated 'the birth of Christ'?".



    If you cannot accept the known fact that "The Bible" is the 100% precisely accurate, divinely inspired, absolutely definitive, "Word of God", then you cannot be a "Real, True, Christian" (according to may "Real, True, Christians").



    That, of course, is your right. You do know that "The Bible" says that the Earth is the center of the Universe, don't you? Do you accept that in preference to the "Copernican Theory"?



    Indeed you have. However I haven't seen you actually admit that, in other countries "many working, and working poor --[fill in the blank]__ have been hoodwinked for centuries by the wealthy".



    Indeed, it does sound a lot like the "Biblical Paradise", doesn't it?



    Yep, and those people have been "White", "Black", "Brown", "Yellow", "Red", and every possible admixture as well.
    see next post

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    Re: North Carolina Republicans vote to override a budget veto in half-empty Assembly during 9/11 rem

    As to "your comment": all I can do is point out what I see as the actual problem in the hopes that someone else will be able to suggest a solution.
    Anyone and everyone can do that... it's also has been a long held thought.. that one should not be so quick to critique, if they have no alternate potential solution.

    Religion is of many things and become even more if one address each individual, even within a single denominational congregation ... and among the various philosophical ideologies of Religions, one stream has tried to usurp and have authority over another since man fashioned organized religion, as was done during the era(s)
    of acts to fashion any kind of religion.
    For me personally, its simple... I either believe in God or I don't... and I choose to believe in God. We can flip the thread on its head and turn it into a Theological exploration, but they have a forum section for that "Beliefs and Skepticism".

    Yet, I do understand how we got to the subject matter... therefore, to direct back to the talk of "Violence in America" from Political Savagery to the history of Civic Based Savagery, i.e. Slavery, Indentured Servitude, Involuntary and Apprentice Servitude and such things, driven by the "money chaser's in their aims to hoard wealth"; yes, they used the tool of religious gamesmanship - such as "shared rituals and beliefs, social control to enforce religious-based morals and norms to help maintain conformity and control in society"

    To that I say: Each man should come to know of God on his own understanding and build his own relationship with God through learning, understanding and adhering to principles that promote the God, as the essence of the Bible's Principles Teaching, whether he participate in a denominational congregational events or whether he does not.
    "The 10 Commandments, excused no one by gender, skin color, wealth or poor, nor country of origin, whether by any of man's variable of individual distinctions.

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    Re: North Carolina Republicans vote to override a budget veto in half-empty Assembly during 9/11 rem

    Quote Originally Posted by TU Curmudgeon View Post
    You mean sort of like what "the Republican Party" and "the Democratic Party" do today?



    If your position is that "The Rich" (regardless of what other label you hang on them) SHOULD be "socially responsible" and use (at least a part of) their wealth in order to better the lot of those whose labour enabled them to amass that wealth, you do realize that you are coming close to what some people consider "socialism" - don't you?

    That is not what I said... I sad they want to create an Faux Emulation as if they are Royalty, but do not have nor do they adopt the integrity and character of what what constituted the premise of Royalty.

    But, since you brought up "socialism"... EVERY system of social society is a form of socialism.... I don't care for the "buzzing of its usage as a trigger, for dissension and the self centered concepts that are fed by the common usage of the term.



    You do realize that the United States of America was rather laggardly in actually ending slavery, don't you?

    I see you did not read the link I proved on "Northern Emancipation". you also ignored this:
    Neither moved with any lightening pace and they maintained still means and system to "ration out" freedoms, as if they would regulate to what extent "freedom would actually mean for black people, based on what whites in power chose to "ration out". they were neither north nor south generous in their rationing, each step within the process had to be fought for, as its steps in progress of what is freedom is still being fought for this very day.

    Except that the American Civil War was NOT "all about slavery". Slavery was (seen as) needed in order for the economies of the Southern states to prosper. Ending slavery by dictat, enabled the Northern states to scupper the economies of the Southern states and that means a migration of wealth from the Southern states to the Northern states.

    Again you missed the point of why I presented the link about Northern Emancipation.



    You do know that the people in power are almost always the ones who decide who gets what share of the power, don't you? Yes... but that power does not have to be based on who has the wealth, if the working, poor of all ethnicity of people come to learn the power of unity for principle sake of society and bringing equilibrium as a change within society.



    "Freedom" ALWAYS has to be fought for. When a people stop fighting for freedom then the amount of freedom that that people has begins to decline because those who control a disproportionate share of societal power are always looking to increase the share of societal power that they control.
    --------------
    I say: Yes, it may take generations to get to a society where people understand a few simple things...

    Commentary referencing such necessity for man to advance in learning the value of change and respect of other human beings. (Saudi attacks underscore evolving drone threat, experts say)
    You are not reading for perspective and context you are "in a nit pick spin cycle" ... it seems you prefer ( see above )

    It's your style... so by all means let's continue...
    Last edited by RealityNow; 09-17-19 at 11:48 AM.

  8. #218
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    Re: North Carolina Republicans vote to override a budget veto in half-empty Assembly during 9/11 rem

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityNow View Post
    As to "your comment": all I can do is point out what I see as the actual problem in the hopes that someone else will be able to suggest a solution.
    Anyone and everyone can do that... it's also has been a long held thought.. that one should not be so quick to critique, if they have no alternate potential solution.
    Yep, and no one but a mechanic should point out to someone attempting to drive a car with a wheel that is going to fall off that a car is not working unless they know how to fix it.

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityNow View Post
    Religion is of many things and become even more if one address each individual, even within a single denominational congregation ... and among the various philosophical ideologies of Religions, one stream has tried to usurp and have authority over another since man fashioned organized religion, as was done during the era(s)
    of acts to fashion any kind of religion.
    Unfortunately I simply can't understand what you are saying unless it is "In any system which has hierarchic levels of authority, the people in the higher levels will always attempt to increase the authority that they already have and some of the people in the lower levels will attempt to get into the higher levels.".

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityNow View Post
    For me personally, its simple... I either believe in God or I don't... and I choose to believe in God. We can flip the thread on its head and turn it into a Theological exploration, but they have a forum section for that "Beliefs and Skepticism".
    I have no issues with anyone who chooses to BELIEVE in anything. I have some problems when those people attempt to FORCE me to believe in what they believe ESPECIALLY when they confuse BELIEF with FACT.

    The question that those people never seem able to answer is "How do you figure that you have the authority to tell me how your all-powerful and omniscient God tells me how I should view them, isn't that usurping the power of God?".

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityNow View Post
    Yet, I do understand how we got to the subject matter... therefore, to direct back to the talk of "Violence in America" from Political Savagery to the history of Civic Based Savagery, i.e. Slavery, Indentured Servitude, Involuntary and Apprentice Servitude and such things, driven by the "money chaser's in their aims to hoard wealth"; yes, they used the tool of religious gamesmanship - such as "shared rituals and beliefs, social control to enforce religious-based morals and norms to help maintain conformity and control in society"
    I believe that the technical term is "thread drift".

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityNow View Post
    To that I say: Each man should come to know of God on his own understanding and build his own relationship with God through learning, understanding and adhering to principles that promote the God, as the essence of the Bible's Principles Teaching, whether he participate in a denominational congregational events or whether he does not.
    And if that person does not come to that understanding through "The Bible", what then?

    Quote Originally Posted by RealityNow View Post
    "The 10 Commandments, excused no one by gender, skin color, wealth or poor, nor country of origin, whether by any of man's variable of individual distinctions.
    "The 10 Commandments" consist (if you look at them dispassionately) of an amalgam of time tested rules appropriate for the technological capacity of the day and a couple tossed in to ensure that "the priest class" stayed in control as much as possible. Many of the time tested rules have always been applicable to prevent the disintegration of societies REGARDLESS of whether the society has ever been exposed to "The Bible" and will continue to be applicable for that purpose for even the most dimly foreseeable future.
    I was told that the best things for me were to eat healthy foods, walk up hills, stop smoking cigars, and cut out drinking Scotch.
    With my record, I don't _DESERVE_ the best. What's second best?
    (Retirement Dinner remarks)



  9. #219
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    Re: North Carolina Republicans vote to override a budget veto in half-empty Assembly during 9/11 rem

    Quote Originally Posted by TU Curmudgeon View Post
    Yep, and no one but a mechanic should point out to someone attempting to drive a car with a wheel that is going to fall off that a car is not working unless they know how to fix it.
    Like I said... you like that style ...


    Unfortunately I simply can't understand what you are saying unless it is "In any system which has hierarchic levels of authority, the people in the higher levels will always attempt to increase the authority that they already have and some of the people in the lower levels will attempt to get into the higher levels.". some may not even attempt, but simply desire to...



    I have no issues with anyone who chooses to BELIEVE in anything. I have some problems when those people attempt to FORCE me to believe in what they believe ESPECIALLY when they confuse BELIEF with FACT. ( by right to yourself, you should if and as that's your choice)

    The question that those people never seem able to answer is "How do you figure that you have the authority to tell me how your all-powerful and omniscient God tells me how I should view them, isn't that usurping the power of God?". ( I did not tell you anything, I told you what "I choose to accept", what you choose is your own business. People have many concept of "God"
    and many different words as names... and more conceptual theorems about what is God, and some have no concern to believe anything related to the Concept of God.
    )



    I believe that the technical term is "thread drift". (I'm generally Ok with "thread drift", it deals with the interwoven threads that makeup the cloth of life. )



    And if that person does not come to that understanding through "The Bible", what then? ( that too is a matter each individual has to deal with, be it within themselves, and sometimes within the environment they find themselves. Who's to know... other than those who come to such a point.



    "The 10 Commandments" consist (if you look at them dispassionately) of an amalgam of time tested rules appropriate for the technological capacity of the day and a couple tossed in to ensure that "the priest class" stayed in control as much as possible. Many of the time tested rules have always been applicable to prevent the disintegration of societies REGARDLESS of whether the society has ever been exposed to "The Bible" and will continue to be applicable for that purpose for even the most dimly foreseeable future.
    We agree....
    Last edited by RealityNow; 09-17-19 at 01:47 PM.

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