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DOJ launches antitrust probe over California emissions deal with automakers

Atomic Kid said:
Under Trump many of our federal government departments have been turned into the antithesis of their traditional roles and functions. The Dept of Labor is now the Anti-Labor Dept. The Dept of Consumer Protection is now the Dept of Business and Corporate Protection from Consumer Complaints and Suits. The Dept of Education is now the Dept of the Un-Education for Profit. The Dept of Commerce is now the US Tariff Department of Anti-Commerce. The Environmental Protection Agency is now he Environmental Prostitution Agency. The Dept of Housing and Urban Development is now the Dept of Housing Gentrification and Non Urban Development .
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A fox for every henhouse. Regulatory capture, writ larger than I've ever imagined possible.
 
apdst said:
This is from your source...
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After the ellipse:...”but is more stringent than what Trump wants.”

Cherry pick much?
 
apdst said:
This is from your source...
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But as usual you didn't finish the thought. Allow me.

The agreement loosens emissions standards for new cars set by former President Barack Obama, but is more stringent than what Trump wants.
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There! Fixed it for ya!
 
Tanngrisnir said:
No. It's a abuse of power to use the DOJ to counter policies that twump just doesn't like.

Conservatives, of course, will applaud this.
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when conservatives destroy democracy in America, they will applaud the end of tyranny.
 
Trump said:
kinda how the system works...we vote for a Presidents vision and when elected his peeps enact that vision....its called Politics as usually
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But America didn't vote for trump's vision. they voted for Hillary's.
 
Lisa said:
I don't see how the automakers refusing to pollute California more because of an emissions rollback that won't last more than a few years in any way merits the use of the DOJ in an antitrust lawsuit. What happened to states rights and small government conservatism, or does that noyl apply for racism/bigotry/discrimination in Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia and So Carolina?
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If the states were arguing to allow more arsenic in drinking water, we'd be getting the obedient "states rights" from conservatives.

EPA Revokes New Arsenic Standards for Drinking Water - Los Angeles Times
 
Vern said:
when conservatives destroy democracy in America, they will applaud the end of tyranny.
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:applause:

That sounds suspiciously like a quote that I have previously read.

Maybe H.L. Mencken...........
 
apdst said:
You're ok with lower standards?
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Less pollution than is even permitted is a good idea.

If the EPA pollution limit is 50 parts part billion and automakers makers are engineering cars that only pollute 35 PPB then that is very good for the people and the environment.
 
Amelia said:
So what is it that Trump wants?

He wants companies to have to set up two different production lines for each car model? One for the 40% of the U.S. population who live in the 14 states which follow the California emissions standard? And a different production line for the other 60% of the nation?


#Fascist
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Well no. That's what the state of California proposes to do.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
What is stopping those other companies from meeting the same emission standards the first 4 are going to hit?
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Who knows? Maybe they can't afford it. Maybe they figure they can sell cheaper cars.
 
Amelia said:
So what is it that Trump wants?

He wants companies to have to set up two different production lines for each car model? One for the 40% of the U.S. population who live in the 14 states which follow the California emissions standard? And a different production line for the other 60% of the nation?


#Fascist
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Athanasius68 said:
Well no. That's what the state of California proposes to do.
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I can tell you're from Trumplandia.

These companies are agreeing to go by one set of standards for 100% of their customers.

The DOJ is investigating them for adopting a uniform standard. The Trump adminstration is penalizing them for not agreeing to run one assembly line for the 40% of the nation living under more stringent emissions rules, with a different assembly line and different standards for the other 60% of the nation.
 
Lisa said:
This claim by Trump doesn't pass the laugh test.

There is no law says that automakers cannot make cars that have lower the required limitation of pollution so any judge with more neurons than a banana will see this DOJ investigation for what it is, which is a partisan hit job to try to erase Obama era regulations. This is no different from people choosing to continue to recycle trash and use less water, even the recycling requirements are lifted and a drought ban is no longer in effect. Does Trump also plan to fine Tesla for not polluting in sufficient amounts?
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The DOJ investigation isn't to force a car company to have lower emission standards.
It's investigating whether those four companies have formed an illegal trust by banding together to get the state of California to raise standards above the national legal ones.
 
Amelia said:
I can tell you're from Trumplandia.

These companies are agreeing to go by one set of standards for 100% of their customers.

The DOJ is investigating them for adopting a uniform standard. The Trump adminstration is penalizing them for not agreeing to run one assembly line for the 40% of the nation living under more stringent emissions rules, with a different assembly line and different standards for the other 60% of the nation.
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No. The EPA has lowered the emission requirements. California is saying no and is keeping the earlier requirements. Aside from the obvious problem ( like, federal law supercede state law), the other problem is that corporations can't form trusts to achieve a uniform objective.
What VW et. al. are saying is that they want one national standard.
Which the EPA has announced. But California fights a losing fight.
 
Athanasius68 said:
The DOJ investigation isn't to force a car company to have lower emission standards.
It's investigating whether those four companies have formed an illegal trust by banding together to get the state of California to raise standards above the national legal ones.
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Someone should teach Trump how to use a computer for things other than Twitter, Wiki explains it. If it was illegal it would have seen the inside of a courtroom decades ago.

the U.S. state of California has special dispensation from the federal government to promulgate its own automobile emissions standards. Other states may choose to follow either the national standard or the stricter California standards. The states that have adopted the California standards are: Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico (2011 model year and later), New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington, as well as the District of Columbia.[1][2][3] Such states are frequently referred to as "CARB states" in automotive discussions because the regulations are defined by the California Air Resources Board.
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From the OP's citation:

" "Department and Environmental Protection Agency notified California Air Resources Board Chairwoman Mary Nichols on Friday that the state’s deal with the automakers “appears to be inconsistent with Federal law.” "

If the state's deal is inconsistent with Federal law, then that needs to be addressed, and the DOJ would be the correct agency to address it.

Much TDS going on in this thread imagining DOJ / administration motivations when no such motivations are in evidence. Well, gee, go figure that.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Who knows? Maybe they can't afford it. Maybe they figure they can sell cheaper cars.
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If Ford can do it GM can do it.

They could sell cheaper cars outside of Cali, if they don't meet Cali standards but then they cant sell in Cali
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
They are not mutually crafting a lockout policy. They are agreeing to follow prior standards.
You watch, the DOJ won't have a leg to stand on because they can't prove that automakers did this to lock out competition, therefore no case.




Utterly ridiculous, you making them out to be rape victims. The government set air pollution standards, plain and simple.
Next you'll be telling me that the same "government violence" forced them to put seat belts in cars, as if the car mfrs barely survived.



Agreed. Let me know when you spot something like that. Because you haven't spotted it here.
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The federal government set the air pollution standard. They set auto emission standards. California wants it's own standard
Can't have it.
Those four companies don't want to get caught in the middle and have agreed to work together to support California standards. Is it their objective to lock out competition?
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
If Ford can do it GM can do it.

They could sell cheaper cars outside of Cali, if they don't meet Cali standards but then they cant sell in Cali
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California can't do that. The feds have control over interstate commerce. And the feds are saying no.
 
Lisa said:
Someone should teach Trump how to use a computer for things other than Twitter, Wiki explains it. If it was illegal it would have seen the inside of a courtroom decades ago.
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Ok. They have a dispensation from the feds. Maybe it's being rescinded.
 
Athanasius68 said:
California can't do that. The feds have control over interstate commerce. And the feds are saying no.
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California has been doing that for 40+ years. It started under Ronald Reagan as governor
 
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