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Charges dropped for two people accused of assaulting man wearing ‘MAGA’ hat in Portland

Scarab said:
It's just as likely, I think, that his position is based on rank partisanship as racism. The former appears to be far more prevalent on this site than the latter.
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Its not based on either. The guy very well may of been a drunk asshole who deserved what he got. The only thing im pointing out is that there isnt enough evidence to jump to that conclusion. I cant agree or disagree if it was justified without some very important answers that are missing.

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trouble13 said:
For me the question is was the physical force defensive or aggresive on his part?

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It's probably a stretch to call it defensive. Legally, Hauser was probably wrong. I have to admit, though, a little ashamedly, that I think Lenzner got what was coming to him and is lucky he wasn't hurt worse. I'm generally a pacifist, but some pricks just need to get their asses beat every once in a while.
 
AProudLefty said:
The funny thing about this is that it contradicts the right-wing narrative that people wearing MAGA hat are always attacked. The wife told him to wear the hat so she can see how he is treated.
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I have no problem with someone doing something to see other peoples reactions as long as they are not harming anyone.

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Scarab said:
It's probably a stretch to call it defensive. Legally, Hauser was probably wrong. I have to admit, though, a little ashamedly, that I think Lenzner got what was coming to him and is lucky he wasn't hurt worse. I'm generally a pacifist, but some pricks just need to get their asses beat every once in a while.
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Know what I bet? He's ***** whipped.
 
trouble13 said:
I have no problem with someone doing something to see other peoples reactions as long as they are not harming anyone.

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Oh yeah same here. I would love to wear a MAGA hat while wearing a Hillary shirt to confuse people.
 
ecofarm said:
Don't be so gullible.
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You apparently have some sort of issue with that guy. I don't know either of you. I'm not being gullible. I'm reserving my judgments for actual experience.
 
Scarab said:
It's probably a stretch to call it defensive. Legally, Hauser was probably wrong. I have to admit, though, a little ashamedly, that I think Lenzner got what was coming to him and is lucky he wasn't hurt worse. I'm generally a pacifist, but some pricks just need to get their asses beat every once in a while.
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What if they were surrounded by an angry mob issuing threats at them and this woman was also being hostile got up in face and he shoved her back? Wouldnt that be a defensive act on his part?

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AProudLefty said:
Oh yeah same here. I would love to wear a MAGA hat while wearing a Hillary shirt to confuse people.
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Lol i wont even put a bumper sticker on my car because i dont think its worth the hassel

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trouble13 said:
Its not based on either. The guy very well may of been a drunk asshole who deserved what he got. The only thing im pointing out is that there isnt enough evidence to jump to that conclusion. I cant agree or disagree if it was justified without some very important answers that are missing.

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Fair enough. What I've read that you've written on this subject seems reasonable to me. I didn't mean to group you into the ranks of mindless partisans who seem never to offer anything that matters to any discussion, but they do seem numerous on this site.
 
Scarab said:
You apparently have some sort of issue with that guy. I don't know either of you. I'm not being gullible. I'm reserving my judgments for actual experience.
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I dont think its personal at least i didnt take it that way. He believes everyone who does not unequivically defend a black person is a racist. Thats his thing.

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AProudLefty said:
Know what I bet? He's ***** whipped.
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I have no idea. It sounds like his wife is as much a jackass as he is. People like that tend to couple with each other and try to make the rest of us as miserable as they are.
 
Scarab said:
Fair enough. What I've read that you've written on this subject seems reasonable to me. I didn't mean to group you into the ranks of mindless partisans who seem never to offer anything that matters to any discussion, but they do seem numerous on this site.
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Its all fine. I dont mind being challenged, in fact i appriciate it. It allows me the opportunity to define my position and distinguish it better for others.

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trouble13 said:
What if they were surrounded by an angry mob issuing threats at them and this woman was also being hostile got up in face and he shoved her back? Wouldnt that be a defensive act on his part?

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Considering there's no evidence at all that anything like that happened, I don't see how that hypothetical matters. Typically, people have an obligation to retreat and refrain from physical violence/self defense unless their life or safety is in imminent danger. I sincerely doubt that Lenzner put his hands on Okuneye because he was fearful for his life or his safety or afraid of an angry mob.
 
Scarab said:
You apparently have some sort of issue with that guy. I don't know either of you. I'm not being gullible. I'm reserving my judgments for actual experience.
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Yeah, he didn't read the names. Sure.
 
trouble13 said:
So if you and i are out in public together and you get into an anrgument with someone and they shove you, does that give me the legal authority to punch him? Does it matter if the person takes a defensive or aggresive stance after the shove? I'd like to know what the law is in these situtations.

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Normally, the law will look at you pushing me as an assault, an aggressive act, a reason for you to defend me. Especially if witnesses are saying the other person started the confrontation and that person then later tries to initially act as if the reason they were punched was something they were wearing without provocation.

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trouble13 said:
Of course i would but thats not what im yalking about. Im raising the question of if its legal to defend someone elses honor if there is no immediate threat present.

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Not her honor she was physically attacked
 
trouble13 said:
I agree with that but being a dick isnt a crime. I find many things people say and many symbols offensive but that does not give me a license to deystroy those symvols or attack those people.

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No but what led up to an assault is almost always taken into consideration by most juries when it comes to a fight, a simple assault. They look at the actions of the supposed victim before such things occur, what were they doing if anything to possibly instigate or even discourage a fight/altercation. And they also look at what people say afterward about what they think happened, caused the altercation, including trying to blame something like a hat or other such thing when you know there was much more to it. Juries don't generally take it well when you lie about a situation to police and press.

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ecofarm said:
If a black guy pushed someone's wife, the same people would be screaming that dumping a mag into him is the right thing to do. Hell, a black guy talking to someone's wife is grounds to shoot him. We've seen that right here.

Outrage against false claims has a very clear line, and it's drawn at race.
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Some of these same posters were defending the guy who shot and killed a man who pushed him off his wife during an argument over parking, eventhough it was shown the man who was killed backed off right after pushing him down.

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roguenuke said:
Some of these same posters were defending the guy who shot and killed a man who pushed him off his wife during an argument over parking, eventhough it was shown the man who was killed backed off right after pushing him down.

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That is to what I refer. A guy told someone's wife, basically from I gathered, to "**** off" and that was cited as the justification for the shooting - defending his wife.
 
Roadvirus said:
And that somehow justifies a beating?
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How did the other guy know the man who shoved him wasn't going to continue assaulting him? If you support the "stand your ground" logic, this shouldn't be an issue for the person who defended himself. The prevailing rationale being that if someone puts their hands on you, you're within your rights to incapacitate the assailant because you don't know if they're going to escalate their attack.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Does it matter if you are, or are not, wearing a MAGA[sup]®©[/sup] hat when you call someone a "Bitch"?
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It doesn't, but that doesn't change the fact that wearing the hat is protected speech. How mad does that make, bro?
 
Amelia said:
The MAGA hat wearer committed the assault. Pushing is an assault.
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Hitting someone in the face and drawing blood is attempted murder.
 
Lord of Planar said:
You have to remember. These people support Antifa.
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In many states I do not have to back off from an aggressive individual, statement or action.

I can stand my ground and defend myself to the degree that "I" feel is appropriate.

If I state "I feel threatened" and I am armed I can draw that weapon without any laws being violated.

If the person who I deemed threating steps towards me I under the law can shoot them, preferably dead.
(Shoot first, shoot accurately, shoot to kill and it is your word against nobody.)

I live in an open carry state, but have a concealed permit anyway.

Honestly I would rather fight an aggressor, I don't start a fight, I also do not fight to win, when I fight I fight to do harm.

I fight crazy, Psychopathic as some describe it, because I have no remorse or guilt in doing life altering harm.

I have been arrested for my actions, but never convicted.

I'm small in stature, do not start the incident and even though I might be laughing when doing permanent harm, within my rights.

I have been badly beaten, but I take solace in knowing I ruptured an ear drum and ripped out hair in an amount that it will never grow back.

It is worth noting that because of my attitude when fighting I have never filed charges.

One other thing is those days are gone as I have incurable stage 4 cancer and dyeing, which then has me back to shooting an aggressor.

:shoot
 
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apdst said:
Hitting someone in the face and drawing blood is attempted murder.
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Defending your property and punching someone and causing them to bleed, maybe.

Defending your person or another person from an assault, nope.

Self defense….
 
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