• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trump displays altered weather map showing Dorian could have hit Alabama

Already did. Deal with the crushing of the Progressive propaganda offensive.

The fact still remains that apparently be hadn't heard a singke weather report in the interim and what mattered to him (and to you) was not where there may be a weather energency in America but "I'm right. I'm the smartest person ever, it's the fake news media's fault for reporting that weather forecasts changed. It's a huge Democrat conspiracy against me."
 
You keep saying that like it actually applies here. Which is wrong, and is decidedly annoying.

Lying, and simply being wrong are two very different things. You do know that, right?

One of our biggest Trumpians is suddenly aghast at lying?

Yes, he was simply wrong. Ok, i can deal with that. He couldn't and you can't. It's more important to prove he was right.
 
You keep saying that like it actually applies here. Which is wrong, and is decidedly annoying.

Lying, and simply being wrong are two very different things. You do know that, right?

Of course he was lying. Alabama had never been more than in the outer fringe of the cone and was well outside it when Trump made his warning, later saying there had been a 95 percent chance at the time of the state getting walloped. The point, however, is who but Trump would show the country an obviously doctored weather map to prove his claim. It seems nuts even for him. Yet the legions nod in their sleep. Nothing wakes them.
 
The Right hasn't any limits or bounds when it comes to Trump.

That is, whatever it is Trump says and does, he's right.

Rightwingers have swarmed to the extreme end of the political spectrum with Trump leading 'em headlong.

There are two rules:
Rule #1: Trump is always right.
Rule #2: When Trump is wrong see Rule #1.

One hundred percent of the time and in all instances and places.

This running off the reservation is the politically fatal flaw of the present generations of Republicans / Conservatives. Yet the one single thing they won't do is mention Putin. They'd already stopped praising Putin as the master chess player, the genius strategist, the strongman leader who gets things done before sitting down to breakfast and so on.

Putin is the one place the Right in USA won't go any more. For reasons that are more than obvious. Other than this, the Right has let it all hang out this time and with Trump. Go to the wall for Trump they do. Trumpolini.
 
Nope you got Trump who disregards Christian values and places himself above God.
Whatever else he may or may not do, at least he is not spitting in God's eye by supporting the brutal butchery of unborn or newly born babies like democrats do.
 
Whatever else he may or may not do, at least he is not spitting in God's eye by supporting the brutal butchery of unborn or newly born babies like democrats do.

This doesn't justify support of Trump to such an extreme that you and others would deny objective reality and treat Democrats as if they were an enemy engaged in warfare against the United States.

The kinds of things Trump supporters are doing to destroy the United States, our laws, our political norms, our constitution, our sense of decency, the truth, basic facts, the notion that we all exist within an objective reality, in pursuit of their policies is tantamount to al-Qaeda intentionally killing innocent civilians.
 
Last edited:
Really? Then why are your feathers so ruffled?

I can see how you have avoided declaring an opinion about the appropriateness of POTUS altering a official map with a Sharpie to present a lie to the public - by taking a stand against posters judging the mental fitness of a grown man who would do such a thing. Still one wonders, do you think it appropriate?

You can keep that a secret if you like. ;)

Wonder no more.

That's right; I haven't commented on anything else but playing armchair psychologist. You use "avoiding" to insinuate that I have some obligation to comment on other issues. I don't. Nobody does.
 
Whatever else he may or may not do, at least he is not spitting in God's eye by supporting the brutal butchery of unborn or newly born babies like democrats do.

You seriously don't believe this fornicator of hordes of women including porn stars hasn't paid for at least one abortion?
 
You keep saying that like it actually applies here. Which is wrong, and is decidedly annoying.

Lying, and simply being wrong are two very different things. You do know that, right?

NOAA published 180+ forecasts on three separate kinds of weather maps:

Probability of >= 39 MPH:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/redi...ORIAN_graphics.php?product=wind_probs_34_F120

Probability of >= 58 MPH:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/redi...ORIAN_graphics.php?product=wind_probs_50_F120

Probability of >= 74 MPH:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/redi...ORIAN_graphics.php?product=wind_probs_64_F120

Guess which state isn't covered in ANY >= 74 MPH forecast (hurricane-force winds)? Guess which state does not have a single forecast as being impacted by the Hurricane? Take a wild guess. A stab in the dark.

Guess which state has only 2 forecasts (a 12-hour period) covering a tiny portion of the state, and no more than 5% to 10% (and 10% is generous) of the area of the state, in the >= 58 MPH forecast?

When Trump tweeted Albama would be predicted to be impacted by the Hurricane he was wrong. When he tried to cover up his mistake with a sharpie on an official map (which showed the path of the HURRICANE) he was lying.

Now, Trump supporters, wrapped in the warm blanket of mass delusion, think that because there was some chance that a small portion of Alabama would be impacted by winds >= 39 mph, that means Trump was correct and the media was just picking on him. No. Instead, what that means is that Trump was nearly entirely wrong and when he drew on the hurricane trajectory map with a sharpie...he was LYING.

No, you're jumping to the conclusion to what information he had

We do not need to jump to conclusion on what information he had. NOAA informed us what information they gave Trump in their lame attempt to defend Trump's iodicy and lies.

I'll readily point out his trolling of the media a few days after the fact, but this is insane to keep arguing about a semicircle drawn with sharpie.

This isn't about a semicircle drawn with a sharpie. It's about Trump trying to change objective reality in the minds of the American public in an attempt to protect his fragile ego. This is 1984-level stuff. It's Orwellian. It's not okay. It's not okay to lie to people. And it's not okay for the President to lie to American citizens.

It's a big deal that our President lacks the judgment and wisdom to lead our country. It's a big deal that he is a habitual liar. And it's a big deal that his supporters don't care.

If that information is all the weatherman has, and if it's all he knows at the time. Even with what the NOAA supplied, there was still a 5% chance. So I actually don't mind that he still said for those in Alabama to be ready.

There was no NOAA-produced forecast which showed Alabama would be hit with Hurricane-force winds. None as near as I can tell. There was some indication that a small part of Alabama might be hit with 39mph to 58mph force winds. For only one 6 to 12 hour period it was predicted there was a 5 to 10% chance that a tiny part Alabama would be struck by 58 mph to 74 mph force winds.

The fact that there was miniscule chance that a tiny part of Alabama would be hit with tropical-storm-force winds doesn't make Trump 100% correct. It makes Trum nearly entirely wrong.

But that's not the problem. No one is perfect. No one expects the President to be perfect.

The problem is Trump LIED about it.

The problem is his supporters don't care that he lied. The problem is his supporters care more about getting one over on the media, and "owning" the libs, than they care about the truth.
 
Last edited:
Don't know, and I honestly don't care.

But let's humor this thought for a second. What if he did draw it?
It means that he, with the information that we received from the NOAA. Must have either made the mark with the information that he had at the time, or someone that was told to update the information did as such, or some other relevant proxy individual did as such.

Then the information was just old. Obsolete even, just not a lie.

This is where you lose everyone because you demand that we accept as a given that Trump was operating in good faith. There's no reason for anyone to assume that. He does have a LONG history of just lying, whenever doing so serves his interests.

On Sunday, Trump said Alabama was likely to get hit much harder than expected by Dorian. When he said it, it was false - a small corner of AL had a 5-10% chance of getting winds >39mph but less than 58mph. The AL NWS corrected him immediately because they were getting calls. Instead of just admitting he misspoke/misTweeted, days later after plenty of time to determine the truth, he presented an altered map from Thursday or three days before that STILL didn't back up his Sunday claim, so that map was altered with a damn magic marker.

The reason we can call that a lie, and not just an error, is that was planned in advance. If he cared about the truth, all he had to do was ask any of the hurricane experts available to him 24/7, and they'd have told him that map was worthless on Sunday, and presenting it to back up his claim laughable, stupid, wrong, dishonest, incorrect. So he didn't ask or ignored them, and had that Sharpie map prepared, placed behind him, had a staffer there to hand it to him and ready to present. So he willfully presented false information. That's a lie.

The only alternative is he's actually just dumb as a box of rocks and doesn't care about the truth and is surrounded by bootlicking sycophants afraid of contradicting the boss, and so is willfully indifferent to the facts. That's not actually better. When his JOB as President is at that moment monitoring an ongoing serious hurricane threatening the U.S. and overseeing/directing the U.S. response, being armed and making decisions based on three day old information marked up with a sharpie is if true (and that's your defense) just incredibly, shockingly, disturbingly, reckless and incompetent. No one believes the hurricane people were briefing him that way...

So he lied, or is so dumb he presents bad info to the public and doesn't realize how stupid he is and doesn't care enough to ask and his advisors are too cowed and worthless to tell him.
 
You keep saying that like it actually applies here. Which is wrong, and is decidedly annoying.

Lying, and simply being wrong are two very different things. You do know that, right?

If you're the President and have had days to contemplate the public response to your Tweet and can ask your experts whether what you said is true (it wasn't) and then after a period of DAYS as part of your planned response to the criticism make or have made or present a falsified and outdated map from three days before your Tweet, the in fact CHARITABLE assumption is he lied. To believe he honestly presented that map is to believe that the President is shockingly stupid and incompetent, and surrounded by idiots and bootlicking sycophants.
 
If that information is all the weatherman has, and if it's all he knows at the time. Even with what the NOAA supplied, there was still a 5% chance. So I actually don't mind that he still said for those in Alabama to be ready.

The 5-10% chance was for tropical storm force winds, >39mph, but <58mph. That's not a hurricane threat, that's a small chance for tropical storm force winds in a small corner of AL. Tennessee had the same risk. It would have been reckless and irresponsible to warn Tennesseans of a risk of hurricane damage.

Now what happened after a few days, that was just Trump trolling the hell out of the media, and It's worked better than I thought it would. This whole thing has basically turned into a massive joke for most of the right leaning people in my office, and even most of the moderates... all four of them at least.

What you call trolling the rest of us call pathological lying. And you can't even be honest about that. You're defending him elsewhere as simply being wrong, not lying, and then you call it trolling, which is a form of deliberate lying or indifference to the truth to get a reaction from viewers.

Bottom line is now when Trump gives a press event to discuss an ongoing national emergency, according to this new defense we have to assume at least some of the presentation is the efforts of a TROLL, who holds the office of POTUS.

My goodness, do you not see how utterly damning that is to Trump and his lemming followers when that's the bar of acceptable behavior?
 
This doesn't justify support of Trump to such an extreme that you and others would deny objective reality and treat Democrats as if they were an enemy engaged in warfare against the United States.

The kinds of things Trump supporters are doing to destroy the United States, our laws, our political norms, our constitution, our sense of decency, the truth, basic facts, the notion that we all exist within an objective reality, in pursuit of their policies is tantamount to al-Qaeda intentionally killing innocent civilians.

Any group of barbarian savages who promote the slaughter of innocent little babies are not only enemies of America, they are enemies of God.
 
You seriously don't believe this fornicator of hordes of women including porn stars hasn't paid for at least one abortion?

Democrats defend the slaughter of innocent babies whether they have had an abortion or not. Trump could have had fifty abortions for all I care. I voted for him because he was not supporting government endorsement of the brutal bloody barbarian practice.
 
Whatever else he may or may not do, at least he is not spitting in God's eye by supporting the brutal butchery of unborn or newly born babies like democrats do.

He just supports that when its his mistress that is pregnant.

Tell me did you pray for Obama to lose? How were those prayers answered?
 
Now, this guy that commented on my post, buys ANYTHING from that the environmentalist whack job says because this person IS a part of the cult of man made climate change. What this person DOESN'T realize is meteorologists, the people who beat the drum of the cult of man made climate change (the so-called experts), GAVE Trump the map and said to him that this was what their forecast was at the time. Trump didn't come up with this map on his own. This was information given to him, so it's either these weather forecasters got it wrong by accident (more than likely) or they got it wrong on purpose to make Trump look bad (which wouldn't surprise me either). Whatever the reason, THEY, not Trump, got it wrong, AGAIN. So lets face it, people, like one who commented earlier, might actually be so dense they can't see beyond the fantasy their leaders put out there. If they have a level of knowledge about this stuff (which is very little), their arrogance will not allow them to accept anything that are actual facts.
 
Now, this guy that commented on my post, buys ANYTHING from that the environmentalist whack job says because this person IS a part of the cult of man made climate change. What this person DOESN'T realize is meteorologists, the people who beat the drum of the cult of man made climate change (the so-called experts), GAVE Trump the map and said to him that this was what their forecast was at the time. Trump didn't come up with this map on his own. This was information given to him, so it's either these weather forecasters got it wrong by accident (more than likely) or they got it wrong on purpose to make Trump look bad (which wouldn't surprise me either). Whatever the reason, THEY, not Trump, got it wrong, AGAIN. So lets face it, people, like one who commented earlier, might actually be so dense they can't see beyond the fantasy their leaders put out there. If they have a level of knowledge about this stuff (which is very little), their arrogance will not allow them to accept anything that are actual facts.

:lamo What he did would be no different than me handing you a map from last week and you using it to predict today's weather. My area was in the 90's last week. This week the forecast is for the 80's. So do you think I could come to you and say hey look this is last weeks weather charts it's going to be in the 90's this week? You'd buy that?
 
Now, this guy that commented on my post, buys ANYTHING from that the environmentalist whack job says because this person IS a part of the cult of man made climate change. What this person DOESN'T realize is meteorologists, the people who beat the drum of the cult of man made climate change (the so-called experts), GAVE Trump the map and said to him that this was what their forecast was at the time. Trump didn't come up with this map on his own. This was information given to him, so it's either these weather forecasters got it wrong by accident (more than likely) or they got it wrong on purpose to make Trump look bad (which wouldn't surprise me either). Whatever the reason, THEY, not Trump, got it wrong, AGAIN. So lets face it, people, like one who commented earlier, might actually be so dense they can't see beyond the fantasy their leaders put out there. If they have a level of knowledge about this stuff (which is very little), their arrogance will not allow them to accept anything that are actual facts.

NOAA published 180+ forecasts on three separate kinds of weather maps:

Probability of >= 39 MPH:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/redi...ORIAN_graphics.php?product=wind_probs_34_F120

Probability of >= 58 MPH:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/redi...ORIAN_graphics.php?product=wind_probs_50_F120

Probability of >= 74 MPH:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/redi...ORIAN_graphics.php?product=wind_probs_64_F120

What happened was Trump looked at the forecasts giving probabilities of >= 39 MPH and >= 58 MPH, at at one point saw some portion of Alabama covered with green. Because he doesn't have an attention span so he didn't bother to read the rest of the forecast he just assumed that meant the Hurricane might hit Alabama. That's not true. The reason it's not true is because there isn't a single forecast that predicted any part of Alabama getting hit with >= 74 MPH. There was one brief period of time with a small part of Alabama was given a 5 to 10% chance of >= 58 MPH, but that prediction did not last more than 6 - 12 hours.

Trump wasn't just wrong. He was really, really, really wrong. And that's okay. He doesn't have to be right all the time. Nobody is always correct all the time. That's not an expectation anyone has of Trump, especially at this point. The problem is he took a sharpie and drew on an official map related to the path of the Hurricane and tried to portray it as an official weather map. That's a problem.
 
Any group of barbarian savages who promote the slaughter of innocent little babies are not only enemies of America, they are enemies of God.

As an American citizen, you have an obligation to treat your fellow citizens with dignity and respect and allow them to contribute to our Republic as equal citizens.

This means people with whom you do not agree also get to vote for their representatives, participate in ballot initiatives, volunteer for political campaigns, run for office, debate and decide policy amongst their fellow citizens, elect judges or appoint judges via their representatives, and participate in the general affairs of our country....and guess what?....they also get to criticize the President.

You don't have to like them. You don't have to agree with them. But you have to let them participate.

What this also means is that you owe your fellow citizens the truth. If someone like Trump persistently engages in a propaganda war against half the country, you have an obligation to criticize Trump, and to not participate. When Trump lies you have a duty as a citizen to stand up and be counted among the people that will not tolerate lies from the leader of our country...EVEN if this means your favorite policy goals will be less likely to be enacted.

It's this simple: If you cannot accept this. If you cannot participate in the system our founding fathers created and you cannot pursue your favorite policies within the system -- and this means accepting the participation of people with whom you disagree -- ...you..yourself...cannot...participate.

I can't speak for God, but I do know that the way you are dealing with people who think abortion should be legal...is a form of extremism and it should not be tolerated in any way whatsoever.
 
Last edited:
I must be slowing down; here's something that hadn't occurred to me across multiple threads and hundreds of posts. I'm going to address this question to the myriad Trumpophobes that have been disgorging various brands of effluvia about the evils of Trump's Tweet for close to a week.

Why did Trump even MENTION Alabama? Did he pull that out of his ass, or was he briefed that Alabama was a possible target? Right? It's not like Alabama has never been hit by a hurricane before, right? So, seriously, why did Trump mention Alabama? To me, the Tweet just looks like a generic "Good luck and be safe" wish from the President; so what have I missed? What evil, dastardly plot was Trump hatching on the people of Alabama?
 
Any group of barbarian savages who promote the slaughter of innocent little babies are not only enemies of America, they are enemies of God.

How many nukes does god have?

If he has as few nukes as the pope had zero divisions he's screwed. Same as the pope was in WW II when Stalin asked the question about the pope.

While all you can do with god is to pray we in the USA just go ahead and press buttons. It hasn't happened since 1945 yet with Trump as Potus who knows.

You of course do pray for the "barbarian savages," right? After all that's an easy one too. So I'd be quite disappointed in you if you didn't.
 
Back
Top Bottom