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China retaliates with tariffs on $75 billion of US goods

Mycroft said:
Nervous Nellie jitters of stock market gamblers won't crash the economy.

Jobs...up. Wages...up. Unemployment...down. Consumer spending...up. Consumer confidence...up. The economy is doing great.
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Lord Tammerlain said:
The post cold war world order is collapsing much faster than I thought it would.

I have a feeling Chinese leadership was expecting this, which is why they removed term limits for their president last year. That would provide some stability in what they expected to be a tumultuous few years.
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You think we should do the same?
 
Bullseye said:
Why did Trump "blink"? Negotiations require some give and take and Trump did a little give. You guys whine and moan with he holds the line and tnen whine and moan when he eases up.
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Resist, resist, resist...
 
WCH said:
MSG infused Chinese with a side of fentanyl?
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You got it. It's the very fruit of Chinese goodness. Their leadership can afford to be arrogant considering all the whining going on here.
 
digsbe said:
There is going to be some economic pain as we challenge China and try to de-couple the economies. However, it must be done and the price must be paid. Trading with China and boosting their economy is like enabling the Nazis, China must be confronted and opposed if not just because of how they abuse on trade, but because they pose a major threat to global/national security, democracy and commit major human rights violations.
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Sounds very nice, but almost impossible to do. There are not many countries that are more driven by "consuming consumers". The problem is that there are not many other sources for a lot of that which Americans crave most, stuff.

You can only do that if you are able to:

1. convince your countrymen/women to stop consuming so much
2. convince them to spend more and get less from other countries (less because it will cost more than the Chinese products so you will be able to consume less, something that most will see as undesirable)
3. start making all the stuff China is making back in the US. But than point 2 comes up again, it will cost more, people will be able to buy less and that is not what consuming is all about

And the economic pain will be more than just "some".
 
trixare4kids said:
You mean the do nothing congress should look the other way and allow China to keep ripping us off.
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no, that's your spin on what i said because you support anything that this idiot does. if you can duck back into real reality for a second, imagine that the president is a Democrat and is using these powers for a trade war that you don't support. if you can manage that, you might be able to see why one person shouldn't be able to start a global trade war uncontested. if not, well, i'm not surprised.
 
iguanaman said:
How many U.S. corporations depend on those goods from China? We cannot afford to lose access to China either. Don't you think the Chinese know this? TPP was specifically designed to confront China and Trump bailed on it. He has also alienated Europe and is supporting the disaster of a no deal Brexit too. Putin could not have asked for a better ally in his war with the West. Some of us saw this coming years ago.
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Those 25% auto tariffs China announced today will hit our auto industry strongly. China is the largest auto market in the world. G.M. sells more cars in China, than in the U.S. (or anywhere else). This so-called war is insane.
 
Chomsky said:
As I commented to others up-thread:

"No TPP" :doh
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The SK and Japan issue is beyond what the TPP could have accounted for

SK courts allowed lawsuits against Japanese companies over comfort women during WW2. Japan took offense to this and threatened to withhold exports of chemicals vital for SK semiconductor sector. With no sane leadership in the US to push for calmer heads the issue has grown and grown from there. I doubt both leaders are willing to lose face in coming to an agreement
 
WCH said:
Yea right. That's why any of this is happening in the first place. :roll: It took giant balls to challenge China.
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His haters/resistors are just p'off that he was the president to do it.
He is doing the right thing for the next generation... If anyone has children, grandchildren, time to think ahead for their sake.
 
Mycroft said:
Nervous Nellie jitters of stock market gamblers won't crash the economy.

Jobs...up. Wages...up. Unemployment...down. Consumer spending...up. Consumer confidence...up. The economy is doing great.
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Manufacturing down, steel plants laying off workers, Bond inversions, GDP growth estimated a 2.3% and dropping and wait until consumers see that they are paying the tariffs. These are what is making Trump act even more insane.
 
digsbe said:
There is going to be some economic pain as we challenge China and try to de-couple the economies. However, it must be done and the price must be paid. Trading with China and boosting their economy is like enabling the Nazis, China must be confronted and opposed if not just because of how they abuse on trade, but because they pose a major threat to global/national security, democracy and commit major human rights violations.
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While there is much to improve on with respect to trade imbalances, the Trump administration is basically ****ting the bed when it comes to achieving this goal. China would much rather go into recession than concede power at this stage.
 
Helix said:
no, that's your spin on what i said because you support anything that this idiot does. if you can duck back into real reality for a second, imagine that the president is a Democrat and is using these powers for a trade war that you don't support. if you can manage that, you might be able to see why one person shouldn't be able to start a global trade war uncontested. if not, well, i'm not surprised.
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I don't support his tweets from this morning just like I don't support a lot of his tweets and other such effluvium.
Let's the archives be your friend....
 
trixare4kids said:
Resist, resist, resist...
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I'm constantly amazed that some seemingly otherwise educated and intelligent people suffer total mental freeze whenever Trump is involved; they cheer for recession predictions, diplomatic setbacks, attribute superior mental capacities to scub like Kim, etc. just because Trump is involved.
 
trixare4kids said:
His haters/resistors are just p'off that he was the president to do it.
He is doing the right thing for the next generation... If anyone has children, grandchildren, time to think ahead for their sake.
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Losing a trade war with China will not help us one bit and it is clear that Trump has no plan to win and never did.
 
humbolt said:
You got it. It's the very fruit of Chinese goodness. Their leadership can afford to be arrogant considering all the whining going on here.
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What else would we expect for China's Communist brethren?
 
WCH said:
You think we should do the same?
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It was not until post WW2 that the president had term limits. Most European countries do not have term limits on there PM's or Presidents. Merkel could have for instance served for life if elected each and every election as PM
 
Mycroft said:
Nervous Nellie jitters of stock market gamblers won't crash the economy.

Jobs...up. Wages...up. Unemployment...down. Consumer spending...up. Consumer confidence...up. The economy is doing great.
Click to expand...
Consumer is O.K., but manufacturing slipping, which eventually bleeds into the consumer. In addition, the global economy is slowing due in part to Trump. Sorry, but unless the dynamics change, I see a slowing of the U.S. economy.
 
Bullseye said:
I'm constantly amazed that some seemingly otherwise educated and intelligent people suffer total mental freeze whenever Trump is involved; they cheer for recession predictions, diplomatic setbacks, attribute superior mental capacities to scub like Kim, etc. just because Trump is involved.
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Saying we told you so about this ill-conceived trade war is sweet but do not blame us because you will not listen. No one EVER has won a trade war.
 
Bullseye said:
Why did Trump "blink"? Negotiations require some give and take and Trump did a little give. You guys whine and moan with he holds the line and tnen whine and moan when he eases up.
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You'd have to ask Trump. I suspect he can't take the politico-economic pressure and the falling markets.
 
WCH said:
Yea right. That's why any of this is happening in the first place. :roll: It took giant balls to challenge China.
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Which the last three presidents lacked. Bill for not nailing down the details of “Fair trade and honesty”; George for ignoring it; Barrack for ignoring it.

If Hillary won, what would it have been? Trump “light” or “heavy”, or a payoff to the Clinton Foundation and a few speeches by Bill? Sadly, that is a fair question to ask.

Trump is the right man at the right time. “He has been chosen by the mysterious fate that seems to throw America a life line, just when she needs it”. (Insert video of exploding TDS heads, here.) I <3 2 LOL @TDS’ers, but with understanding and compassion.
 
Chomsky said:
Consumer is O.K., but manufacturing slipping, which eventually bleeds into the consumer. In addition, the global economy is slowing due in part to Trump. Sorry, but unless the dynamics change, I see a slowing of the U.S. economy.
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The CBO has already revised GDP growth to 2.3% for 2019 and expect it to shrink under 2% in 2020.

And while his trade war with China rages on, the CBO also says that the tariffs imposed under Trump since January 2018 are expected to make U.S. GDP roughly 0.3% smaller than it otherwise would have been.
“Trade policies” are weighing on economic activity, “particularly business investment,” the CBO said.
The slowdown in growth in 2019 largely stems from weaker growth in business investment, according to the report.
Tariffs affect business investment “by increasing business’ uncertainty about future barriers to trade and thus their perceptions of risks associated with investment in the United States and abroad,” the CBO said.
“If trade barriers rose higher or concerns about such developments increased, domestic investment and output could be slower than we project,” the agency added.
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CBO expects deficit to grow more than projected, warns tariffs could harm growth
 
Linc said:
Good point, since India/Pakistan have long been my greatest fear of starting the last world war. China is now backing Pakistan. India has now grown very tight with Israel. What could possibly go wrong with all four of them having nuclear weapons.

Every president has inherited administrative overlap and problems from the previous presidents. This president has chosen to rip up every good thing Obama and previous presidents have done, rather than build on them, while also improving them. Our dictator enemies don’t have this admin overlap problem.
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Just imagine the daunting task our next President will have? And some things are broke, likely never to come back. No way is China ever going to fully re-establish soybean trading with us, after now establishing new infrastructure around the world. Thanks, Trump!
 
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