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China retaliates with tariffs on $75 billion of US goods

Lord Tammerlain said:
South Korea and Japan are having an economic trade war between them that is moving into security issues. South Korea pulled out of a security sharing deal with Japan
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As I commented to others up-thread:

"No TPP" :doh
 
Chomsky said:
You're welcome.

But it's merely my opinion, which I provided for free. You get what you pay for! ;)
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As is the truth with all of us... I mean it is a forum meant to share our opinions. If that aggrieves some, they probably shouldn't be overreacting to opinions which differ from theirs, but I digress...;)
 
Chomsky said:
Source: (CNN) China retaliates with tariffs on $75 billion of US goods

I'm not sure what more can be said here. After getting Trump to blink & back down last week during U.S. crashing stock & bond markets, it seems China is now shifting gears and firmly taking the offense in escalating the trade & currency wars.

U.S. manufacturing has contracted for the first time in a decade, and the heightening trade war will only exasperate the contraction. The American consumer is keeping the economy afloat, but a contracting manufacturing sector will eventually trickle-down to less consumer spending. Obviously the manufacturing sector isn't as large a component of the U.S. economy as in days gone by, but it still is an important part of our economy.

It's my opinion that Trump has lost his self-inflicted trade war, and needs to declare victory and move on to something else. That is, if he wants to have an economy commensurate with his gaining re-election.

Additional relevance: For what it's worth, I just checked and the Dow is down nearly 600 pts and the yield curve just inverted again ... oh well ...
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Good for them. That just highlights why America’s supply chain must exclude the Chinese. The is no gold under a Chinese rainbow. I think a lot of Trumps support comes from blue collar workers who “get it”. They saw first hand that a CEO will ship their jobs overseas on a handshake if no one is watching.

This is a war worth winning, and if “Trump lost” you lost.

Worth a read:
How American cars are really sold in China
 
trixare4kids said:
Is this what you are hoping for?
Not pointed at you, but you do realize Trump opposition are hoping Trump crashes the economy because in their minds they know it will be the end for his presidency.

I find that attitude, (again, not yours), but the collectives', contemptibly unAmerican.
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Mr Person said:
What a load of (typical) hyper-partisan horse ****. Discussing the natural consequences of stupid actions by Trump =/= hoping he crashes the economy.



No matter how much you have been conditioned to hate liberals, you should for your soul's sake stop pissing all over the commandment against bearing false witness.
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JustHanging said:
Bearing false witness is a mainstay for many Conservatives.

Remember when they used to pretend they cared about family values? And that they didn't like deficit spending? Now we're discovering they actually like socialism, as Trump gives orders to companies. :lamo

Oddly enough, many have swung 180 degrees on those values since the color of the POTUS's skin changed. Go figure.
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It's the laziest hackery. It's all word games to them, with the sole goal to try to annoy a liberal. Instead of honestly discussing whether or not Trump is going about things the right way or might in fact be setting us up for economic disaster, they've got to try to score an Internets Point; petty ugliness and faux patriotism.
 
ElChupacabra said:
Yes, and I think in the short term this will work for them; I don't, however, think they're looking at a trade scenario without access to the US market over the long term. I do agree that confronting them alone wasn't the best maneuver. Getting support from the EU and other trade partners would have created a much tighter noose.
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How many U.S. corporations depend on those goods from China? We cannot afford to lose access to China either. Don't you think the Chinese know this? TPP was specifically designed to confront China and Trump bailed on it. He has also alienated Europe and is supporting the disaster of a no deal Brexit too. Putin could not have asked for a better ally in his war with the West. Some of us saw this coming years ago.
 
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RAMOSS said:
Well, right not there is pain, and no gain.
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A trade war is not a feat that should be expected to bring instant gratification.
I'm sorry you expect too much too fast... but this is going to take time to resolve.

Buckle up...
 
Chomsky said:
We're all hit by this. You have your farming community, and I have older family members that are dependent upon a market component for their retirement. The market has not had a net gain in nearly two years.

(BTW, the farmers downstate are getting hit pretty hard. We'll see if they stick for Trump, not that he's likely to win the state regardless)
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Since I don’t know your state or CD, I can’t speak to it specifically. My farmer in-laws, friends, and former students are mostly silent about politics right now. That’s not a good thing for GOPs.

Every GOP that hasn’t stood up for their constituents deserves to be voted out. This is not a time to feel sorry for the untenable positions they are in. They did this to themselves and our Nation.
 
WCH said:
There are other countries that make most of what China does. Truth is China can't afford to lose our business. They'll fold eventually.
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And if so, then you go after all the other countries?
 
HenryChinaski said:
The dow is -509 right now. Trump and his shills are going to make billions from stock purchases.
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Exactly. Trump was sort of right when he said "It's easy to win a trade war...". "...for the people making the rules. The rest of you are screwed".
 
WCH said:
There are other countries that make most of what China does. Truth is China can't afford to lose our business. They'll fold eventually.
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Exactly!
It won't happen over night, but we will win the deal.
 
WCH said:
There are other countries that make most of what China does. Truth is China can't afford to lose our business. They'll fold eventually.
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I don't know whether you've noticed, but your leader is a giant snowflake. The USA is full of them. And you think you're going to be able to take more pain than China? After Trump blinked? SMH.
 
iguanaman said:
Not to mention India and Pakistan who are also ramping up old wounds. There was a time when we would broker disputes to derail them before they got dangerous. Now they are on their own and we are at risk because of it.
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The post cold war world order is collapsing much faster than I thought it would.

I have a feeling Chinese leadership was expecting this, which is why they removed term limits for their president last year. That would provide some stability in what they expected to be a tumultuous few years.
 
iguanaman said:
Not to mention India and Pakistan who are also ramping up old wounds. There was a time when we would broker disputes to derail them before they got dangerous. Now they are on their own and we are at risk because of it.
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Even worse, they are aligning with China! China has been off-sourcing manufacturing to them and other countries for years, building relationships and infrastructure, as can be seen with Belt & Road.
 
iguanaman said:
How many U.S. corporations depend on those goods from China? We cannot afford to lose access to China either. Don't you think the Chinese know this? TPP was specifically designed to confront China and Trump bailed on it. He has also alienated Europe and is supporting the disaster of a no deal Brexit too. Putin could not have asked for a better ally in his war with the West.
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Crooked commerce has created a crooked supply chain. China’s stated goal is to be the worlds factory. They are going to cheat and steal to get there. Where does that leave us?
 
trixare4kids said:
A trade war is not a feat that should be expected to bring instant gratification.
I'm sorry you expect too much too fast... but this is going to take time to resolve.

Buckle up...
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Sure. The guy without a plan is going to win a war. Because that's happened...never.

Next thing you're going to tell me is you have a magical invisible friend who says Trump is on the right track. :lamo
 
chuckiechan said:
Good for them. That just highlights why America’s supply chain must exclude the Chinese. The is no gold under a Chinese rainbow. I think a lot of Trumps support comes from blue collar workers who “get it”. They saw first hand that a CEO will ship their jobs overseas on a handshake if no one is watching.

This is a war worth winning, and if “Trump lost” you lost.

Worth a read:
How American cars are really sold in China
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Thanks for the link. Even though I disagree, you - as so often to me - present a civil and reasonable post. So I'm happy to toss you a 'like', and will read your link when I get back home.
 
Chomsky said:
I give my best opinion. If I could "prove" where the economy is going, I'd be the wealthiest guy in the world - now wouldn't I?

But I will opine this: If Trump crashes the economy, he is unlikely to win re-election.
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Nervous Nellie jitters of stock market gamblers won't crash the economy.

Jobs...up. Wages...up. Unemployment...down. Consumer spending...up. Consumer confidence...up. The economy is doing great.
 
chuckiechan said:
Good for them. That just highlights why America’s supply chain must exclude the Chinese. The is no gold under a Chinese rainbow. I think a lot of Trumps support comes from blue collar workers who “get it”. They saw first hand that a CEO will ship their jobs overseas on a handshake if no one is watching.

This is a war worth winning, and if “Trump lost” you lost.

Worth a read:
How American cars are really sold in China
Click to expand...



Yes it is....

The bottom line: It's more cost effective to make cars in a region where they will be sold. That's one reason why Ford and GM build cars in China, rather than ship them from America. By the way, Japanese automakers like Toyota and Honda follow the same principle: They make most of the cars they sell to US customers in North America.
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BTW Trump lost this war before it started. He has no clue about much of anything. He does know how to make bankruptcy pay and has had much experience with that. Sadly instead of his creditors, it is the American people that will pay for his mistakes this time.
 
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Chomsky said:
Even worse, they are aligning with China! China has been off-sourcing manufacturing to them and other countries for years, building relationships and infrastructure, as can be seen with Belt & Road.
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And China is selling them products made with our stolen technology.
 
Chomsky said:
Source: (CNN) China retaliates with tariffs on $75 billion of US goods

I'm not sure what more can be said here. After getting Trump to blink & back down last week during U.S. crashing stock & bond markets, it seems China is now shifting gears and firmly taking the offense in escalating the trade & currency wars.

U.S. manufacturing has contracted for the first time in a decade, and the heightening trade war will only exasperate the contraction. The American consumer is keeping the economy afloat, but a contracting manufacturing sector will eventually trickle-down to less consumer spending. Obviously the manufacturing sector isn't as large a component of the U.S. economy as in days gone by, but it still is an important part of our economy.

It's my opinion that Trump has lost his self-inflicted trade war, and needs to declare victory and move on to something else. That is, if he wants to have an economy commensurate with his gaining re-election.

Additional relevance: For what it's worth, I just checked and the Dow is down nearly 600 pts and the yield curve just inverted again ... oh well ...
Click to expand...
Why did Trump "blink"? Negotiations require some give and take and Trump did a little give. You guys whine and moan with he holds the line and tnen whine and moan when he eases up.
 
JustHanging said:
I don't know whether you've noticed, but your leader is a giant snowflake. The USA is full of them. And you think you're going to be able to take more pain than China? After Trump blinked? SMH.
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Yea right. That's why any of this is happening in the first place. :roll: It took giant balls to challenge China.
 
digsbe said:
There is going to be some economic pain as we challenge China and try to de-couple the economies. However, it must be done and the price must be paid. Trading with China and boosting their economy is like enabling the Nazis, China must be confronted and opposed if not just because of how they abuse on trade, but because they pose a major threat to global/national security, democracy and commit major human rights violations.
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/Thread
 
iguanaman said:
Not to mention India and Pakistan who are also ramping up old wounds. There was a time when we would broker disputes to derail them before they got dangerous. Now they are on their own and we are at risk because of it.
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Good point, since India/Pakistan have long been my greatest fear of starting the last world war. China is now backing Pakistan. India has now grown very tight with Israel. What could possibly go wrong with all four of them having nuclear weapons.

Every president has inherited administrative overlap and problems from the previous presidents. This president has chosen to rip up every good thing Obama and previous presidents have done, rather than build on them, while also improving them. Our dictator enemies don’t have this admin overlap problem.
 
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