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Elizabeth Warren apologizes for 'harm I have caused' at Native American forum in Iowa

Middleground said:
No. I don't live in "make **** up" land.
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Oh, so you must have evidence to support your positions. Let's see it.

Anytime. Whenever you're ready....,
 
Kreton said:
Who exactly did she "harm" by believing she had native american ancestry? Also how did she harm them?
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She played a bogus Native American card to further her career; that's what.
 
jimbo said:
We're not talking about President Trump. Injun' Liz is the topic.
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I know. Just pointing out your hypocrisy. It's like a school yard bully being promoted to be the CEO for Be Best.
 
Kreton said:
And who did that harm and how?

Also it seems she didn't know it was bogus when she played it.
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It harmed every other worthy academic applying for a position who didn't have that extra card to play. I don't really understand why you're asking this question; you know as well as I do what the answer is.
 
jimbo said:
I know what happened with Liz. She lied. She said so after being found out. Harvard is not about to release thousands of job applications just so you can make a possible point.

You've painted yourself into a corner. Time to put down the brush.
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I am in no corner. I'm not the one losing my marbles about Warren's family folklore. That's you.

Nobody else cares. And something tells me you don't care about Trump lying repeatedly about his father being born in Germany.
 
Middleground said:
You're making me go back in time when I was in grade 2.
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You made yourself do it when you hypocritically challenged me and my sources while you clearly have NOTHING to back up your own claims. :lamo
 
tres borrachos said:
So you also have no link to someone losing the job.
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Do you think that applicant information is publicly available? I think you already know that nobody is likely to be able to Google a list of all the candidates for jobs to which Warren applied, so what's your point here?

From The Intercept, which says that by allowing herself to be misrepresented as Native American, "Warren enabled the university to leverage her identity as a pretext and decline to hire additional Native American faculty members":

...But if Warren has been perceived as white over the course of her life, it’s difficult to credibly argue that she should be the beneficiary of a program intended to level a playing field made uneven by discrimination on the basis of identity.

The University of Pennsylvania tacitly acknowledged this when it declined to tout Warren’s minority status to the press — even while it identified her as nonwhite in the university’s 2005 Minority Equity Report by bolding and italicizing her name along with other minority faculty members. “It counts for way more if you are visibly, recognizably a person of color,” explained Colin Diver, dean of the law school at the time in an interview with the Globe.

...This isn’t just a hypothetical claim: In a 1996 article in the Harvard Crimson, Harvard Law School’s spokesperson Michael Chmura used Warren to diffuse criticism directed at Harvard Law School for its diversity failures: “Although the conventional wisdom among students and faculty is that the Law School faculty includes no minority women, Chmura said Professor of Law Elizabeth Warren is Native American.” https://theintercept.com/2018/10/16/elizabeth-warren-dna-video-native-american-harvard/
 
eman623 said:
You made yourself do it when you hypocritically challenged me and my sources while you clearly have NOTHING to back up your own claims. :lamo
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Damn you're so right. Can you share me that link again? You know, the one that proves that people here at DP think apologizing is weak. Thanks.
 
nota bene said:
It harmed every other worthy academic applying for a position who didn't have that extra card to play. I don't really understand why you're asking this question; you know as well as I do what the answer is.
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That isn't an answer. That isn't showing who it harmed. Who did she "beat" and who suffered or was harmed? Who did she run against that was "more" native american than her, that she only won on because she played a race card in Massachusetts to out native american them and win.

I think that you just don't like her politically so you are faking an outrage that really hasn't hurt anyone.
 
Kreton said:
That isn't an answer. That isn't showing who it harmed. Who did she "beat" and who suffered or was harmed? Who did she run against that was "more" native american than her, that she only won on because she played a race card in Massachusetts to out native american them and win.

I think that you just don't like her politically so you are faking an outrage that really hasn't hurt anyone.
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First, I'm not outraged, so please don't invent emotions I haven't expressed. That just won't work. Second, I don't need to present a list of other applicants, not that such a list is likely to be available anyway, because unless there were no other applicants, Warren was unfairly playing an extra card.
 
chuckiechan said:
I watched her groveling and it reminded me of Obama’s apology tour. How embarrassing.

I guess now she will give a speech at Harvard suggesting better vetting to screen out white opportunists who wake up on job interview day as a protected class. After all some poor N.A. scholar didn’t get the position because she took their place.

The bottom line: Warren wasn’t good enough to get in as a white. They didn’t want white, and they got a pasty faced blond white woman. Warren owes Harvard reparations, personally!

Stick a fork in her. She’s done.
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To be fair she dyed her hair really really native dark back then. :D
 
eman623 said:
Why does Trump need to apologize? Given that Warren herself apologized and admitted she was wrong and very likely "caused harm" by assuming a Native ethnicity that she did not deserve, it's hard to fathom what Trump would need to apologize for.

In fact, Warren's apology completely vindicated Trump's admittedly childish, yet highly effective name calling. Consider..., but for Trump repeatedly calling her lies out by mockingly her with "Pocahontas", would Warren have ever stopped or apologized, or would she even now still be persisting in her FRAUD and deliberately and maliciously causing "harm" (her exact word) by shamelessly passing herself off as a Native.

Sorry, what were you saying again about apologies being a sign of weakness? :lamo
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I meant that trump has never apologized for anything he should have apologized for, such as:

Lying about Obama's birthplace
Condemning the Central Park 5
Lying about seeing thousands of Muslims cheering the fall of the twin towers on 9/11.

These are things he should have apologized for.
 
nota bene said:
First, I'm not outraged, so please don't invent emotions I haven't expressed. That just won't work. Second, I don't need to present a list of other applicants, not that such a list is likely to be available anyway, because unless there were no other applicants, Warren was unfairly playing an extra card.
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You aren't outraged, yet you are online posting your displeasure about the possibility of a person (that probably doesn't exist) that may have been harmed in some way by Warren being misinformed. You are also of the belief that Warren played a race card on the small percentage of her heritage that was native american (and very well still could based on what we know of genetics) and that her playing this card completely tipped the scaled in her favor and nothing else played any vital role in her career. Her entire career has been made possible by a false belief that she had a small percentage of her blood to be native american. Even though in the history of American politics no one that I can think of has ever duplicated that, or made a career the same way. For her specificially everything came together on an ancient ancestry. And lots of made up people were actually harmed because of it. The people of Massuchusetts were so focused on nothing but her having a distant relative that might have been a native american they just ignored all else and put her in office. And for some reason, since all they cared about was her ancestry, they couldn't find anyone else willing to run who also might have had an ancestor.

I gotta say that seems like a bit of a stretch.
 
Kreton said:
You aren't outraged, yet you are online posting your displeasure about the possibility of a person (that probably doesn't exist) that may have been harmed in some way by Warren being misinformed. You are also of the belief that Warren played a race card on the small percentage of her heritage that was native american (and very well still could based on what we know of genetics) and that her playing this card completely tipped the scaled in her favor and nothing else played any vital role in her career. Her entire career has been made possible by a false belief that she had a small percentage of her blood to be native american. Even though in the history of American politics no one that I can think of has ever duplicated that, or made a career the same way. For her specificially everything came together on an ancient ancestry. And lots of made up people were actually harmed because of it. The people of Massuchusetts were so focused on nothing but her having a distant relative that might have been a native american they just ignored all else and put her in office. And for some reason, since all they cared about was her ancestry, they couldn't find anyone else willing to run who also might have had an ancestor.

I gotta say that seems like a bit of a stretch.
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That’s precisely what you’ve done—stretch what I said to expand my comment into what I didn’t say. I never spoke about Warren being elected to anything; I spoke only to her exploiting the race card to benefit herself academically.

I also didn’t express displeasure about the possibility that Warren’s being misinformed about her heritage somehow harmed others. Her playing the card gave her unfair advantage over applicants who had no similar card to play. That is what I say.

I have next-to-no private-sector experience in hiring/firing, but I have significant experience serving on academic hiring and also scholarship committees. I don’t think the process is much different; whether it’s private or public sector, about 85% of all job apps are immediately rejected (and that percent is higher with online apps), so you begin winnowing with the 15% that made the first cut. By the time you’re down to 2-3 candidates, the process does become subjective: When all else is equal, how do you choose?
 
nota bene said:
That’s precisely what you’ve done—stretch what I said to expand my comment into what I didn’t say. I never spoke about Warren being elected to anything; I spoke only to her exploiting the race card to benefit herself academically.

I also didn’t express displeasure about the possibility that Warren’s being misinformed about her heritage somehow harmed others. Her playing the card gave her unfair advantage over applicants who had no similar card to play. That is what I say.

I have next-to-no private-sector experience in hiring/firing, but I have significant experience serving on academic hiring and also scholarship committees. I don’t think the process is much different; whether it’s private or public sector, about 85% of all job apps are immediately rejected (and that percent is higher with online apps), so you begin winnowing with the 15% that made the first cut. By the time you’re down to 2-3 candidates, the process does become subjective: When all else is equal, how do you choose?
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Compared to everything Trump did in the last 16 hours alone, Warren's sin, by contrast, was thinking about committing jaywalking. If you were to compare her sin to the sum of all of Trump's transgressions, then Warren is deserving of the title of World's Most Ethical Human.
 
nota bene said:
That’s precisely what you’ve done—stretch what I said to expand my comment into what I didn’t say. I never spoke about Warren being elected to anything; I spoke only to her exploiting the race card to benefit herself academically.

I also didn’t express displeasure about the possibility that Warren’s being misinformed about her heritage somehow harmed others. Her playing the card gave her unfair advantage over applicants who had no similar card to play. That is what I say.

I have next-to-no private-sector experience in hiring/firing, but I have significant experience serving on academic hiring and also scholarship committees. I don’t think the process is much different; whether it’s private or public sector, about 85% of all job apps are immediately rejected (and that percent is higher with online apps), so you begin winnowing with the 15% that made the first cut. By the time you’re down to 2-3 candidates, the process does become subjective: When all else is equal, how do you choose?
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You are assuming that she really pressed that her grandmother says she has native american ancestry into her application. You also seem to believe that academic hiring relies largely on an application. And that of all the other people who "filled out an application" she lied that she was the most native american of all the people and that is what tipped the scales in her favor. In 1970's America.

You think that she began her academic career by filling out an application where she overstated her native american ancestry and that the culture in the 1970's demanded she be given the job based largely on that.

Damn you got me.
 
Kreton said:
You are assuming that she really pressed that her grandmother says she has native american ancestry into her application. You also seem to believe that academic hiring relies largely on an application. And that of all the other people who "filled out an application" she lied that she was the most native american of all the people and that is what tipped the scales in her favor. In 1970's America.

You think that she began her academic career by filling out an application where she overstated her native american ancestry and that the culture in the 1970's demanded she be given the job based largely on that.

Damn you got me.
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The faux outrage coming from the citizens of Trump Fan Nation is a sight to behold.

Hey, don't forget your signature line.:mrgreen:
 
nota bene said:
She played a bogus Native American card to further her career; that's what.
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Seriously? It seems 1/2 the Americans I talk to claim to have Native American blood in them. And before DNA testing was available, she's supposed to magically know if her family history is 100% factual?

That's such a completely ridiculous idea it borders on clownish.
 
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Cardinal said:
Compared to everything Trump did in the last 16 hours alone, Warren's sin, by contrast, was thinking about committing jaywalking. If you were to compare her sin to the sum of all of Trump's transgressions, then Warren is deserving of the title of World's Most Ethical Human.
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I've said nothing about Trump, and this thread isn't about Trump, and yet here you are injecting him into the discussion. :roll:
 
Kreton said:
You are assuming that she really pressed that her grandmother says she has native american ancestry into her application. You also seem to believe that academic hiring relies largely on an application. And that of all the other people who "filled out an application" she lied that she was the most native american of all the people and that is what tipped the scales in her favor. In 1970's America.

You think that she began her academic career by filling out an application where she overstated her native american ancestry and that the culture in the 1970's demanded she be given the job based largely on that.

Damn you got me.
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No, but you've certainly "gotten" yourself here. And now you're telling me what I think too, so I'm going to all Dante here.
 
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