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13 arrested, 4 injured at Portland right wing rally: Police

Nap said:
He was booted for advocating for military intervention in WW1 against the neutral stance of the party. He likely would have been kicked out later anyways due to his "third way" as he was for neither capitalism nor socialism but for something in between.
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MORE oversimplification. Oversimplification is "your thing", I guess. Never mind that the leading leftist peers of his time piled on, saying that he had effectively overturned and betrayed pretty much everything socialism and the left ever stood for, and he confirmed this in his own newspaper, advocating for rule by a moneyed elite...and pretty much everything else I ALREADY WENT OVER AT LEAST TWICE earlier in THIS thread and in several other threads.

So, this has now been done to death.
You're wrong, everyone knows you're wrong (except of course all the other Jonah Goldberg fans of the book "Liberal Fascism" which is worth so much birdcage liner) and you've been proven wrong.

FACT:
Mussolini was ousted from the Italian Socialist Party, was roundly declared an enemy of socialist principles, and then went on to publish innumerable attacks on socialist values and ideals in his own newspaper, and promoted his TOP-DOWN hierarchy of elites, wealthy industrialists and the idea of corporatism.

FACT:
The very last vestiges of socialism were viciously purged from the NSDAP on The Night of the Long Knives.

FACT:
An entire security apparatus, the LEFTIST SA (Sturmabteilung) was outright ELIMINATED and REPLACED by the RIGHT WING SS (Schutzstaffel).


FACT:
Gregor Strasser was assassinated and his brother Otto, the leading light of the leftist faction of the party, was exiled, first to Austria, then to Prague, Switzerland and France.
And when it was clear to him that Hitler's SS still intended to quench their thirst for his blood as well, (to the tune of a $500 thousand dollar bounty on his head) he went to Bermuda by way of Portugal, leaving a wife and two children behind in Switzerland.
In 1941, he emigrated to Canada, where he was the famed "Prisoner of Ottawa". He never stopped looking over his shoulder for agents of doom.

FACT:
Himmler, speaking to a mass meeting of the SchutzStaffel (S.S.): "We are of the right and of order.
We shall sweep away Jews, Bolsheviks, and liberal democracies as one sweeps away flies."

But I'm wrong...yeah, right.
What's next?
Some Fascists were vegetarians; some liberals are vegetarians; ergo ... Some Fascists were gay; some liberals are gay ... Aha! All liberals and fascists are gay vegetarians!!
Fascists cared about educating children; Hillary Clinton cares about educating children. Aha! Hillary is a FASCIST!!!
Goldberg's entire nonsense book is about political revenge, something he openly admits to in the beginning passages.

Jonah Goldberg - phone interview with Salon said:
"It's a revisionist history. It's an attempt to reconfigure, or I would say correct, the standard understanding of the political and ideological context that frames most of the ideological debates that we have had since, basically, World War II. There's this idea that the further right you go the closer you get to Nazism and fascism, and the further left you go the closer you get to decency and all good things*, or at least having the right intentions in your heart."
Click to expand...

So by his own admission, this is a revisionist work authored as a tantrum to exact political revenge because Goldberg is pissed off at the self-induced notion that the left thinks they're better than he is, oh and because some news media were mean to his Mommy.

:lamo

(*Aha!! Right wing inoculation detected)
 
Jesse Booth said:
I just did some digging on the Dayton shooter, and it does appear that there's finally been a single, solitary leftist nutter in recent memory. Congratulations on that, I'm suree you're pleased to finally have a whataboutism for mass shootings. The El Paso shooter, however, released a manifesto detailing his xenophobic, far right beliefs. The scoreboard still has right wingers as the overwhelming majority of current terrorism instigators in this nation.
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The manifesto is why I say both are lefties, not just the antifa sympathizer in Ohio. He was xenophobic far-left, ie an eco-terrorist. He even called his manifesto The Inconvenient Truth.

Do you have a NYT article that isn't behind a paywall?
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
MORE oversimplification. Oversimplification is "your thing", I guess. Never mind that the leading leftist peers of his time piled on, saying that he had effectively overturned and betrayed pretty much everything socialism and the left ever stood for, and he confirmed this in his own newspaper, advocating for rule by a moneyed elite...and pretty much everything else I ALREADY WENT OVER AT LEAST TWICE earlier in THIS thread and in several other threads.

So, this has now been done to death.
You're wrong, everyone knows you're wrong (except of course all the other Jonah Goldberg fans of the book "Liberal Fascism" which is worth so much birdcage liner) and you've been proven wrong.

FACT:
Mussolini was ousted from the Italian Socialist Party, was roundly declared an enemy of socialist principles, and then went on to publish innumerable attacks on socialist values and ideals in his own newspaper, and promoted his TOP-DOWN hierarchy of elites, wealthy industrialists and the idea of corporatism.

FACT:
The very last vestiges of socialism were viciously purged from the NSDAP on The Night of the Long Knives.

FACT:
An entire security apparatus, the LEFTIST SA (Sturmabteilung) was outright ELIMINATED and REPLACED by the RIGHT WING SS (Schutzstaffel).


FACT:
Gregor Strasser was assassinated and his brother Otto, the leading light of the leftist faction of the party, was exiled, first to Austria, then to Prague, Switzerland and France.
And when it was clear to him that Hitler's SS still intended to quench their thirst for his blood as well, (to the tune of a $500 thousand dollar bounty on his head) he went to Bermuda by way of Portugal, leaving a wife and two children behind in Switzerland.
In 1941, he emigrated to Canada, where he was the famed "Prisoner of Ottawa". He never stopped looking over his shoulder for agents of doom.

FACT:
Himmler, speaking to a mass meeting of the SchutzStaffel (S.S.): "We are of the right and of order.
We shall sweep away Jews, Bolsheviks, and liberal democracies as one sweeps away flies."

But I'm wrong...yeah, right.
What's next?
Some Fascists were vegetarians; some liberals are vegetarians; ergo ... Some Fascists were gay; some liberals are gay ... Aha! All liberals and fascists are gay vegetarians!!
Fascists cared about educating children; Hillary Clinton cares about educating children. Aha! Hillary is a FASCIST!!!
Goldberg's entire nonsense book is about political revenge, something he openly admits to in the beginning passages.



So by his own admission, this is a revisionist work authored as a tantrum to exact political revenge because Goldberg is pissed off at the self-induced notion that the left thinks they're better than he is, oh and because some news media were mean to his Mommy.

:lamo

(*Aha!! Right wing inoculation detected)
Click to expand...

What are you even arguing? My original comment was about this idea that we entered WW2 to fight "Fascism" out of humanitarian reasons or in defense of democracy. They declared war on the US, not the other way around. In fact, the holocaust could have largely been avoided had FDR accepted Jewish refugees but he turned them away instead.
 
cabse5 said:
When he said both groups (neo-Nazis and ANTIFA) were very fine people in Charlottesville. trump – Mother Jones was protecting the right of free speech for both groups...This was going to bat for both groups in Charlottesville. Violent demonstration is no longer a free speech issue and Trump also acknowledged this with his scare to ANTIFA of making them a domestic terrorist organization if they were to engage with the ultra-right protestors in Portland.

When one uses facts and doesn't engage in straw man fallacies, things become clearer.
Click to expand...

There were many protestors at Charlottesville who were not in any way connected to Antifa, and in fact are very good people, Heather Heyer being one of them prior to her death there.

Trump's statement in no way claimed that he thought Antifa were good people. It would be very wrong for the president to condone a violent group. ;)

You could consider taking your own advice.
 
Jay59 said:
The manifesto is why I say both are lefties, not just the antifa sympathizer in Ohio. He was xenophobic far-left, ie an eco-terrorist. He even called his manifesto The Inconvenient Truth.

Do you have a NYT article that isn't behind a paywall?
Click to expand...

My guy, just click the "X" in the top left corner before the article's 100% loaded, and the paywall won't pop up. Anyway, here's the relevant excerpt of Nazi propaganda about Jews trying to kill of the white people with interracial dating. If you don't time it right, just hit the button after it turns into the refresh button & try again.

The words of the manifesto, in citing the “great replacement” theory, echo the slogan that was chanted during a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Va., in 2017: “Jews will not replace us.”

The writer of the manifesto also suggested that Democrats in the United States have a strategy to gain a permanent majority by embracing the growing Hispanic population, a notion that has gained currency on right-wing radio shows for years.

The manifesto said the gunman planned to use an AK-47-style rifle, which has been frequently used in mass shootings. The four-page document said politicians of both parties were to blame for the United States “rotting from the inside out,” and that “the heavy Hispanic population in Texas will make us a Democrat stronghold.”
Click to expand...
 
Oborosen said:
It doesn't help your point, that the woman, and the older man look to be the ones causing a scene here.
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Yeah, ignore the jerk carrying the sign saying "Feminism is cancer."
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
MORE oversimplification. Oversimplification is "your thing", I guess. Never mind that the leading leftist peers of his time piled on, saying that he had effectively overturned and betrayed pretty much everything socialism and the left ever stood for, and he confirmed this in his own newspaper, advocating for rule by a moneyed elite...and pretty much everything else I ALREADY WENT OVER AT LEAST TWICE earlier in THIS thread and in several other threads.

So, this has now been done to death.
You're wrong, everyone knows you're wrong (except of course all the other Jonah Goldberg fans of the book "Liberal Fascism" which is worth so much birdcage liner) and you've been proven wrong.

FACT:
Mussolini was ousted from the Italian Socialist Party, was roundly declared an enemy of socialist principles, and then went on to publish innumerable attacks on socialist values and ideals in his own newspaper, and promoted his TOP-DOWN hierarchy of elites, wealthy industrialists and the idea of corporatism.
Click to expand...
You also didn't mention that Hitler opposed the addition of the word "socialism" to the name of the party, but lost the argument at that time. The leadership was trying to recruit disaffected workers and thought this might fool them long enough to get in line.
 
Jesse Booth said:
My guy, just click the "X" in the top left corner before the article's 100% loaded, and the paywall won't pop up. Anyway, here's the relevant excerpt of Nazi propaganda about Jews trying to kill of the white people with interracial dating. If you don't time it right, just hit the button after it turns into the refresh button & try again.
Click to expand...

I thought it was pure spin and I was right. The whole point of the manifesto is dwindling resources, unsustainable population growth, poisoned environment. It's all Green party stuff. His solution was to stop the influx of new people. So, xenophobic via the left wing. Interestingly, he doesn't care about race. It's the new people coming across the border that are the problem.
 
Jay59 said:
I thought it was pure spin and I was right. The whole point of the manifesto is dwindling resources, unsustainable population growth, poisoned environment. It's all Green party stuff. His solution was to stop the influx of new people. So, xenophobic via the left wing. Interestingly, he doesn't care about race. It's the new people coming across the border that are the problem.
Click to expand...


If you say so Jay.

If you say so.


Sent from the Matrioshka in the WH Christmas tree.
 
Ikari said:
I think that if your intent is to get into fights, cause vandalism, or in general put at risk the general welfare of the public, that you should stay at home regardless of what side you are on.
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If you intent is to fight and be a vandal you should stay at home? How in the hell are you going to fight then?
 
Nap said:
What are you even arguing? My original comment was about this idea that we entered WW2 to fight "Fascism" out of humanitarian reasons or in defense of democracy. They declared war on the US, not the other way around. In fact, the holocaust could have largely been avoided had FDR accepted Jewish refugees but he turned them away instead.
Click to expand...

Oh now you're playing dumb (what are you arguing?) and moving the goalposts, and changing the subject.
You've spent the last gazillion posts arguing that fascism is leftist liberal in nature, so what are YOU arguing is more appropriate.

But let's handle the FDR and the Holocaust question, since you're anxious to change the subject.
How much further can we hijack the thread from the OP, which is about a right wing rally in Portland?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In fact, the Holocaust still would have happened anyway because most Jews could not GET OUT of Germany or its occupied possessions.
You are indeed correct about FDR not especially wanting to accept Jewish refugees but to pin the Jewish refugee issue solely on FDR is inaccurate.

Most Jews did struggle to get U.S. visas, and most did not get one.
But some 132,000 Jews – about a quarter of Germany’s Jewish population at the time, found refuge in the United States.
My own father landed here in 1937, smuggled in the belly of a freighter owned by a friend of the family, an "illegal alien" so to speak.
He only gained his refugee status in 1939 and was drafted in 1942 anyway, and wound up right back in Germany again, a Jewish native German speaker with an advanced knowledge of electronics.
He became a Staff Sergeant for the Army Signal Corps, disinformation specialist.
Finally the American government had found a use for Jewish refugees. He took two Nazi bullets to the neck but survived and made a full recovery, earning a Purple Heart in the process.

But Roosevelt had taken office at the height of the Great Depression, with an increasingly isolationist public and Congress, and a State Department with anti-Semitic officials in key positions allegedly stymieing immigration efforts. This was the America of Henry Ford and his precious "Dearborn Independent", the most antisemitic paper in the history of the United States, the land of Charles Lindbergh and the Ku Klux Klan.

Nobody in their right mind casts Roosevelt as some champion of the Jewish refugees, and to do so would be the move of a partisan hack. But to lay blame solely at his feet to the exclusion of all other factors of the time is also an equally hack move, because America in the early twentieth century was a very antisemitic place to live.

I don't know why you wish to flit over to FDR's sluggish response to the Jewish refugee question.
Perhaps you believe that, as a "leftist" I must harbor some hard-baked unswerving adoration for everything FDR ever said or did, marching in lockstep like some dutiful sycophant.
Truth is, I don't know and I don't much care.
What I DO KNOW is, fascism is a right wing political ideology, and that you and the rest of the members of the 102nd Dinesh D'Souza/Jonah Goldberg Revisionist Keyboard Commando Wing should get your money back.

Chairborne_Measure__87499.1412703037.1280.1280.jpg
 
JMR said:
There were many protestors at Charlottesville who were not in any way connected to Antifa, and in fact are very good people, Heather Heyer being one of them prior to her death there.

Trump's statement in no way claimed that he thought Antifa were good people. It would be very wrong for the president to condone a violent group. ;)

You could consider taking your own advice.
Click to expand...

Quite right. At no time has Mr. Trump said anything that could even remotely be confused with "advocating or condoning violence".

Why <SARC> the entire March 13, 2016 LA Times story is a complete fabrication and we know that this is so because Mr. Trump has said so</SARC> - right?
 
Jay59 said:
I thought it was pure spin and I was right. The whole point of the manifesto is dwindling resources, unsustainable population growth, poisoned environment. It's all Green party stuff. His solution was to stop the influx of new people. So, xenophobic via the left wing. Interestingly, he doesn't care about race. It's the new people coming across the border that are the problem.
Click to expand...

Considering the number of people who think (for example) that "Mexican is a 'race'.", there really isn't much difference, is there?
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Oh now you're playing dumb (what are you arguing?) and moving the goalposts, and changing the subject.
You've spent the last gazillion posts arguing that fascism is leftist liberal in nature, so what are YOU arguing is more appropriate.

But let's handle the FDR and the Holocaust question, since you're anxious to change the subject.
How much further can we hijack the thread from the OP, which is about a right wing rally in Portland?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In fact, the Holocaust still would have happened anyway because most Jews could not GET OUT of Germany or its occupied possessions.
You are indeed correct about FDR not especially wanting to accept Jewish refugees but to pin the Jewish refugee issue solely on FDR is inaccurate.

Most Jews did struggle to get U.S. visas, and most did not get one.
But some 132,000 Jews – about a quarter of Germany’s Jewish population at the time, found refuge in the United States.
My own father landed here in 1937, smuggled in the belly of a freighter owned by a friend of the family, an "illegal alien" so to speak.
He only gained his refugee status in 1939 and was drafted in 1942 anyway, and wound up right back in Germany again, a Jewish native German speaker with an advanced knowledge of electronics.
He became a Staff Sergeant for the Army Signal Corps, disinformation specialist.
Finally the American government had found a use for Jewish refugees. He took two Nazi bullets to the neck but survived and made a full recovery, earning a Purple Heart in the process.

But Roosevelt had taken office at the height of the Great Depression, with an increasingly isolationist public and Congress, and a State Department with anti-Semitic officials in key positions allegedly stymieing immigration efforts. This was the America of Henry Ford and his precious "Dearborn Independent", the most antisemitic paper in the history of the United States, the land of Charles Lindbergh and the Ku Klux Klan.

Nobody in their right mind casts Roosevelt as some champion of the Jewish refugees, and to do so would be the move of a partisan hack. But to lay blame solely at his feet to the exclusion of all other factors of the time is also an equally hack move, because America in the early twentieth century was a very antisemitic place to live.

I don't know why you wish to flit over to FDR's sluggish response to the Jewish refugee question.
Perhaps you believe that, as a "leftist" I must harbor some hard-baked unswerving adoration for everything FDR ever said or did, marching in lockstep like some dutiful sycophant.
Truth is, I don't know and I don't much care.
What I DO KNOW is, fascism is a right wing political ideology, and that you and the rest of the members of the 102nd Dinesh D'Souza/Jonah Goldberg Revisionist Keyboard Commando Wing should get your money back.

Chairborne_Measure__87499.1412703037.1280.1280.jpg
Click to expand...

Where did I say Fascism was Leftist or Liberal in nature?

I never moved any goal posts, my argument (not so much an argument as it was a critique of your post) was that the US did not get involved in WW2 for some humanitarian reason or to save democracy, it was the result of war being declared on the US. The posts after my original comment were not to argue that fascism was Left or Liberal in nature but that before we were dragged into the war Fascism was looked on somewhat favorably by the FDR administration, in particular "that admirable Italian gentleman" to use FDR's own words.
 
Phys251 said:
Nope. :) In the US there is no such thing as the "Democrat party." That's a childish slur used to signal that one does not want an intelligent discussion. ;)

It would be as if we started calling you guys the "Rethuglican party," which one wonders if we shouldn't do in response. :)
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No, actually it wouldn't. Calling someone a thug is a slur.
 
Nap said:
Where did I say Fascism was Leftist or Liberal in nature?

I never moved any goal posts, my argument (not so much an argument as it was a critique of your post) was that the US did not get involved in WW2 for some humanitarian reason or to save democracy, it was the result of war being declared on the US. The posts after my original comment were not to argue that fascism was Left or Liberal in nature but that before we were dragged into the war Fascism was looked on somewhat favorably by the FDR administration, in particular "that admirable Italian gentleman" to use FDR's own words.
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Yes of course, how many times have we heard, "But he made the trains run on time and he made sure that the mail was delivered."
Even my own mother, a refugee who fled Mussolini as a child along with her parents, had been known to say that.
 
Ikari said:
I'm not arguing with that. Commie or fascist, the results are the same in my book. But some folk are having a hard time accepting that fascism is an extreme right-wing ideology.
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To me, it's like a circle. The further you venture from our Constitution, the worse it gets. When you get to the other side of the circle, it really doesn't matter which way you came from. Nazi Germany had many characteristics of the far left also.
 
Ikari said:
I get it, partisans cannot distinguish down the line of left/right wing behavior. So somehow saying that fascism is a right-wing ideology (since it is) is an attack on American conservatives or some nonsense. Plus the desire to attack the other side makes it so that one has to lie and twist reality to make it what they want it to be.

No amount of delusion turns fascism away from being a form of radical right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism. You can tilt at every windmill from here to the moon, but it won't change facts. But I can see this is as fruitful as trying to tell a flat-earther that the earth is spherical. lol

So have at your delusions.
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The HWAL (Hitler Was A Lefty) group is larger than all the chemtrailers, Moon Hoaxers, flat Earthers and anti-vaxxers combined and multiplied ten times over. It is worth mentioning too, that the HWAL revisionism campaign is well funded.
 
Nap said:
Where did I say Fascism was Leftist or Liberal in nature?

I never moved any goal posts, my argument (not so much an argument as it was a critique of your post) was that the US did not get involved in WW2 for some humanitarian reason or to save democracy, it was the result of war being declared on the US. The posts after my original comment were not to argue that fascism was Left or Liberal in nature but that before we were dragged into the war Fascism was looked on somewhat favorably by the FDR administration, in particular "that admirable Italian gentleman" to use FDR's own words.
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You, you and you panic. The rest of you follow me into this hole where we keep the revisionists.
First you guys claim Hitler was a lefty, and now that that's been debunked for the 20983497540985th time, now you're running with "FDR was a fascist".

You know, maybe just listening to some old radio broadcasts might help you a little.
I recommend Ed Murrow.
 
nota bene said:
From ABC News:

...as the day progressed, tensions seemed to be mounting. At around 4:30 p.m. local time, and the Portland Police tweeted, that "Police are having plastic water bottles thrown at them as they are making an arrest on SW Yamhill and Park." After that, police began advising people to clear the streets or face arrest.

"Police are advising this is now a civil disturbance. Crowd needs to leave the area and go Northbound on Park or any direction eastbound. This means everyone," Portland Police tweeted.

The city has been bracing for several militant right-wing groups to arrive in the city, along with scores of counter-protesters.

Enrique Tarrio, national head of the Proud Boys, who describe themselves as an all-male "western chauvinist" group, and former InfoWars personality Joe Biggs, organized the “End Domestic Terrorism” rally on Saturday that started at 11 a.m. local time. Initially, the crowds moved in slowly, and were met by a heavy police presence, in which local police were bolstered by more than a dozen other law enforcement agencies. 4 arrested, 1 injured at Portland right wing rally: Police - ABC News

This is all so juvenile. And West Side Story-ish. And dangerous.
Click to expand...

Mainstream spin of the facts: 'The violence erupted at the white racist rally and several people were arrested.'

What really happened: 'Antifa thugs showed up in black masked and hooded ISIS uniforms and beat the crap out of a few people in the crowd who did not look like and were not dressed like ISIS thugs.'
 
Jay59 said:
I thought it was pure spin and I was right. The whole point of the manifesto is dwindling resources, unsustainable population growth, poisoned environment. It's all Green party stuff. His solution was to stop the influx of new people. So, xenophobic via the left wing. Interestingly, he doesn't care about race. It's the new people coming across the border that are the problem.
Click to expand...

It's not spin that the guy wrote out white supremacist talking points about the Jews orchestrating a white genocide, you liar. He was pushing a literal Nazi talking point.
 
Jesse Booth said:
It's not spin that the guy wrote out white supremacist talking points about the Jews orchestrating a white genocide, you liar. He was pushing a literal Nazi talking point.
Click to expand...

Really. Quote the passage. I did not see it. A lot of things like anti-corporate and universal health care if there are fewer people, but nothing on Jews.
 
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