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13 arrested, 4 injured at Portland right wing rally: Police

ocean515 said:
Exactly.

I don't get it. Been to Portland too many times to count. Mostly on business. But that was a number of years ago. It was always a bit quirky, and was definitely liberal, but why turn it into a pariah that few people would want to visit.
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I remember Portland of the 60's. It was once, a truly amazing place. Now it's a cesspool.
 
Lord of Planar said:
What you are comfortable with goes beyond acceptable civil disobedience. There is nothing "civil" about the disobedience you are advocating.
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There is nothing anyone from the left can do in terms of civi disobedience that would be acceptable to you. In the case of the extremists acting out in Portland the only difference between them is the ones from the right got a permit to demonstrate and that government permission makes them acceptable to you and the other lunatics, the ones from the left, are unacceptable because they don't have a piece of paper with a bureaucrat's hoofprint on it. But none of that means a damned thing at the street level.
I'm not expressing approval of street violence, just contempt for the idea that permission from the government makes a damned bit of difference. It doesn't.
 
Grand Mal said:
Oversimplistic. Armor is used to defend against counter-attack.
But you know that.
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No, armor is to protect against even the first attack. How did you come to such an erroneous conclusion that armor is only for a counter-attack?
 
nota bene said:
Maybe one of our members from Portland or Oregon will come along to explain.
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What is there to explain?

Liberalism is a disease, and we are a diseased city.
 
Mason66 said:
No, armor is to protect against even the first attack. How did you come to such an erroneous conclusion that armor is only for a counter-attack?
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Only? Damn. Are we going to play that stupid game?
Well, maybe you are but you'll do it without my participation.
Damned dishonest bullcrap.
 
Grand Mal said:
There is nothing anyone from the left can do in terms of civi disobedience that would be acceptable to you.
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Looks like you have already made up your mind.

How about being "civil" for starters.

What would I have to complain about if civility was involved? I might not agree with the message, but I will 100% support their right to say it, as long as they are civil about it.

Grand Mal said:
In the case of the extremists acting out in Portland the only difference between them is the ones from the right got a permit to demonstrate and that government permission makes them acceptable to you and the other lunatics, the ones from the left, are unacceptable because they don't have a piece of paper with a bureaucrat's hoofprint on it. But none of that means a damned thing at the street level.
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I do think the police should have arrested any organized effort by the non-permitted groups who tried to silence the free speech of those holding the permit.

Even if the rolls were reversed!

If you are going to hold the first amendment dear, then you have to accept there are those who don't think like you do.

Grand Mal said:
I'm not expressing approval of street violence, just contempt for the idea that permission from the government makes a damned bit of difference. It doesn't.
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Civil disobedience should be a resort taken after other things fail. And it needs to Remain "civil!" There is nothing civil about those who you are championing here. If you are going to embolden the thugs, then expect to be treated with little respect.
 
Geoist said:
Can you explain how their beliefs are any different from the KKK?
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Aren't the "Proud Bow"s what they wear in their hair? I thought that was a gay pride thing. I guess I got the organizations confused. They are so similar in their viewpoints.
 
DiAnna said:
You've already made clear what you believe; own it. I really don't give a damn about your delusions and justifications at this point. You proudly proclaim your membership in a woman-hating, Jew-hating white nationalist organization. :shrug:

Oh, try Googling the Proud Boys New York Nine to see what happened to your boy McInnis, and why. I'm done here.
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The cherry on top is that they love to start violence, and then paint themselves as victims after. For a group that claims to hate women and minority "victim complexes", they sure do a lot of it themselves. In this Portland Rally, for example, they tried to use the hammer they brought, but (ANTIFA?) protesters wrestled it away from them, and starting trying to hit the Proud Boys with it. Andy Ngo (which is one of their supporters/members) edited it to make it look like the (ANTIFA?) protesters was the one attacking them with the hammer in the first place. Plenty of other incidents like that.

They are a gross group of individuals, and while ANTIFA isn't exactly an innocent party in all this kind of stuff either (they are known for inciting violence as well), the Proud Boys aren't any better.
 
TheGoverness said:
The cherry on top is that they love to start violence, and then paint themselves as victims after. For a group that claims to hate women and minority "victim complexes", they sure do a lot of it themselves. In this Portland Rally, for example, they tried to use the hammer they brought, but (ANTIFA?) protesters wrestled it away from them, and starting trying to hit the Proud Boys with it. Andy Ngo (which is one of their supporters/members) edited it to make it look like the (ANTIFA?) protesters was the one attacking them with the hammer in the first place. Plenty of other incidents like that.

They are a gross group of individuals, and while ANTIFA isn't exactly an innocent party in all this kind of stuff either (they are known for inciting violence as well), the Proud Boys aren't any better.
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Andy Ngo literally tried to blame a random traffic accident on ANTIFA. A guy on a bicycle collided with a guy on a scooter. ANTIFA!!!!!

The Proud Boys are worse. They're the fascists.
 
NeverTrump said:
What are you talking about? I see no reason why neo-nazis need to travel across the country to spread their message of hate. Why do you?
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I see no reason why Fascist Progressives should be allowed to exist.

But then, this is the United States, and I'm comfortable taking the good with the bad, since that is a foundational tenant of Constitution.
 
Lord of Planar said:
They don't have an end game. The liberals who control the city are pansies.
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No question. But why?

It's not like these New Democratic Party supported terrorists represent any kind of voting block, or have any meaningful economic influence.

Perhaps they are tolerated because they do the dirty work of the party?
 
ocean515 said:
I see no reason why Fascist Progressives should be allowed to exist.

But then, this is the United States, and I'm comfortable taking the good with the bad, since that is a foundational tenant of Constitution.
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Fascist progressives? Are you refering to Antifa?
 
NeverTrump said:
Same could be said of the proud boys. No one has been able to tell me why they are in Portland. Couldn't they have just had their rally in their backyards in Florida?
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Oh, I can clear that up for you. They are in Portland because they choose to be.
 
Anthony60 said:
Oh, I can clear that up for you. They are in Portland because they choose to be.
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But if they expect antifa to be there, couldn't they have just held their hate filled rally in their backyards?
 
ocean515 said:
I see no reason why Fascist Progressives should be allowed to exist.

But then, this is the United States, and I'm comfortable taking the good with the bad, since that is a foundational tenant of Constitution.
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Wasn't that what most of the country was in WWII?? They certainly weren't pro-nazis cowards. Now why don't you answer my question, why you are soo against antifa but not neo-nazi groups who fly all the way to portland in order to spread hate and cause division?
 
bongsaway said:
Who said anything about suppressing free speech? I said fight them.

Or am I supposed to think the folks from the right were there to hand out flowers? They want to agitate people into a street fight, so I say don't disappoint them. Fight fire with fire.
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You just said to fight them. That would be suppressing free speech. They do have the right to hold a rally. You know that, right?
 
Anthony60 said:
What a joke. Antifa would be shooting the American soldiers in the back.
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KKK = Nazis
Americans = Anti-facists

Seems clear to me which side to support. :shrug:
 
NeverTrump said:
Wasn't that what most of the country was in WWII?? They certainly weren't pro-nazis cowards. Now why don't you answer my question, why you are soo against antifa but not neo-nazi groups who fly all the way to portland in order to spread hate and cause division?
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What a bizarre deflection and response. I answered your question and related it to the Constitution. Are you one of those who wish to burn it?

Have I placed you in an unsafe space? Do you need a time out?
 
I haven't read through this whole thread yet, but found it curious that Trump wants to label Antifa as a "terrorist organization", but seems just fine with the far-right hate group the "Proud Boys" who spread white nationalism, misogyny and Islamophobia.

Contrary to the president’s description, antifa is not a singular organization, but a loose collection of groups and individuals who confront the far right, sometimes with violent means.

Saturday’s far-right rally has been organized the Proud Boys, an organization of self-described “western chauvinists” that has been deemed a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center for its spread of white nationalism, misogyny and Islamophobia.

Joe Biggs, formerly of InfoWars, the website helmed by conspiracy theory-mongering radio host Alex Jones, has helped to organize the rally.

The Proud Boys also appeared at the 2017 Charlottesville, Virginia, “Unite the Right” rally where a neo-Nazi rammed his car into a crowd of counter-protesters, killing 32-year-old Heather Heyer.

Biggs, who is a member of the Proud Boys, told the Associated Press that attendees have been told not to start fights or bring weapons, but noted that they will act in self defense if attacked. Despite this call for peace, the Proud Boys have encouraged violence in the past.

Though Trump has called for action against antifa, the movement hasn’t been linked to a single killing.

Meanwhile, white supremacist violence has surged under his administration, most recently evidenced by the mass shooting at an El Paso, Texas, Walmart where a gunman killed 22 people earlier this month. The suspect, who reportedly posted a white nationalist manifesto online before the shooting, admitted to authorities that he was targeting Mexicans.

According to a Washington Post analysis published in November, there were 36 incidents of right-wing domestic terrorism in the United States in 2017, versus 10 left-wing incidents and seven Islamist extremist incidents.
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Trump Threatens Antifa With Terrorist Label As Portland Braces For Far-Right Rally | HuffPost
 
ocean515 said:
What a bizarre deflection and response. I answered your question and related it to the Constitution. Are you one of those who wish to burn it?

Have I placed you in an unsafe space? Do you need a time out?
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I have not deflected, you have not answered my question. WTF are they doing in Portland??? They are from Florida!!!
 
Phys251 said:
KKK = Nazis
Americans = Anti-facists

Seems clear to me which side to support. :shrug:
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You forgot one...

Antifa = anarchists

Oh, I’m American and I don’t = antifa, so you are wrong there.

I’m not supporting any side in this, I’m supporting Constitutional freedoms.


Sent from my iPhone XX Turbo using Tapacrap
 
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NeverTrump said:
I have not deflected, you have not answered my question. WTF are they doing in Portland??? They are from Florida!!!
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In the United States, US citizens are allowed to travel freely. That includes domestic terrorists like the NDP supported Antifa, or White Supremacists and Nazi's.

Would your world require authorization to travel from one zone to the other?

We've seen that in the past history. It wasn't a good thing.

I'd think reveling that objective is probably not a good idea
 
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